AGain, read the book before you post. We shouldn't have to take the time to explain the POJA to someone who has been here for 4 years.

secondthoughts, Dr Harley makes some good points in this article about choosing the right one to marry. He also cites several other ways to predict future compatibility:

Choosing the Right One to Marry

And I will add that 10 years is way too long to date. If he hasn't passed the test in 2 years, he likely never will.

And that's fine, but if you were dating a man for whom your keeping the photos was not an option, then the two of you could not possibly make a good marriage. And that's fine, too! Such a hypothetical man wouldn't be wrong, and you wouldn't be wrong, either. But I'd strongly urge the two of you not to get married without negotiating the issue, and you'd have to start that with a commitment to the POJA.


I'm a little shocked. Is the goal here to preserve a dating relationship at all costs?

Of course she may lose the man. That's the question facing this lady: should I enforce my boundaries, or move them? Of course if she enforces the boundaries, she may lose the relationship! Why should she be encouraged to keep the relationship at all costs, even at the cost of obliterating her feelings, values, and boundaries? A marriage that requires obliteration of one's own feelings is not worth it. We want to help this poster reach long term happiness, and to do that we want to help her understand that moving her own boundaries will not lead to her happiness in the long term.

Of course some of us may have different boundaries, but that is not the issue, here.

I agree completely. In my marriage I moved my boundaries and kept moving them over and over until my ex finally got to the ones that I wasn't willing to move. Those boundaries involved an emotional affair and physical abuse of the kids.

This guy is OBVIOUSLY a renter. He will probably never become a buyer. I was just reading Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders yesterday and in it, Dr. Harley says, "Eventually, almost all Renters' relationships become abusive." (p. 39) AND "Unfortunately, leaving is not a Renter's only threat. When a demand is not met, a Renter feels justified in becoming verbally or even physically abusive to get what he or she feels is fair. That's why fights are so common in Renters' relationships." (p. 46)

These two people have a Renter relationship. If they do get married it will get even worse.

Choosing the Right One to Marry

And I will add that 10 years is way too long to date. If he hasn't passed the test in 2 years, he likely never will. [/quote]

I absolutely LOVE the above article. I find it spot on. The trouble I see is when people marry in spite of a fundalmental difference (as outlined by Dr. Harley in that article). Or they make a radical shift in their thinking and the marriage becomes miserable. I do believe that POJA cannot always solve those issues and often those marriages either cannot be satisfying or they do not survive.

Of course in the case of the OP, she isn't married to him after TEN years...so she should probably just move on.

Right, SmilingWoman. I think in those cases you've got people who've got a nonnegotiable that they would never be willing to follow the POJA about. And they marry anyway. Disaster!

It IS for sure.

What do you think about those who end up with a mate who makes some radical change in behavior?

It's a dangerous situation. One of the things Dr. Harley used to ask people in premarital counseling was how would they handle it if their spouse changed religions. He figured that was just about the worst situation to negotiate, since most view it as uncompromisable.

Oddly enough, most men said they would stay with their wives, most women said they would divorce!

I remember that. That hasn't been my personal experience with people I've known....changing religion, although radical, would not be enough to divorce over...but I can't imagine that the marriage could be very happy after such a change.