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Well 'ol aunt Pep, what is your point? The vast majority of people already know this. Yea I know, there are porn sites out there and prostitutes etc etc. But, for some reason, you seem to have chosen this topic for a reason. The reason I react now is that you seem to generlize! The male friends I have, I cannot imagine they would fall into this.
I do believe that the majority of men are more concerned with attmpting to provide for their families, rather than cheap tricks. Temptations, yea! I sorr of realize that you are attmepting to refer to a small percerntage of men, but you just seem very bitter for whatever reason.
Tom
I found Pep's post to be a very helpful explanation of some of the consequences of porn and prostitution. While I do know that both of those are wrong and very destructive, she mentioned some consequences that I have NEVER THOUGHT OF. So I learned from her post, and so I appreciate it.
It sounds like you think she was targeting men in general or something. Not sure why you'd read it that way. There's nothing wrong with saying "This is how porn ruins your life" any more than there's anything wrong with saying "This is how drugs ruin your life." Porn is wrong for a reason.
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Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010
Porn is so insidious, the way it creeps in to a man's life and mind. And most often it IS a man, rather than a woman, simply due to the difference between the genders in the way we think about sex. Men are more visual than women are.
Tom states that it's a small percentage of men who engage in this, but actually a majority of men view porn and many of them are church-goers. It's like infidelity; you can't tell by looking at a person.
Porn is insidious, because at first it seems so innocent. After all, it's not hurting anyone, right?
Dr. Harley talks about the contrast effect in the viewing of porn compared to the normal everyday body of the spouse. Even in my best days, I never looked like one of those models. I didn't want my H to compare my body to that of anyone else, especially an unfair comparison to young hot bods selected especially for their favorable attributes.
The other problem with porn, as it often involves masturbation, is the effect on a man's performance over time. Dr. Harley says the contrast effect is involved in this area as well. Masturbation trains the reflexes to respond quickly and to a certain kind of touch. In comparison to that, he states that intercourse often feels boring and like a lot of work.
We had years during which our sex life suffered dramatically due to premature ejaculation. I got pretty frustrated after a while. My H kept saying we needed more "practice" but more never worked, because his brain was trained to masturbation.
Yet, porn and masturbation are often considered rather harmless. A popular radio talk show host says there's no real problem with it, nor with having fantasies about another person.
We're not bitter about porn any more than Pepperband is bitter about it. But we now have very strong convictions about how terribly destructive it is to the marriage relationship.
The only thing we fantasize about these days is being able to eat a thick-crusted juicy pizza in bed, taking bites in between kisses and washing it all down with a bottle of great red wine. Sniff, sniff, due to our desire to stay in shape, this never happens, but we have some good laughs about the fantasy.
The only thing we fantasize about these days is being able to eat a thick-crusted juicy pizza in bed, taking bites in between kisses and washing it all down with a bottle of great red wine. Sniff, sniff, due to our desire to stay in shape, this never happens, but we have some good laughs about the fantasy.
Don't carry out this fantasy, 51. You'll regret it. Tomato paste on your sheets, and crumbs in the bed...
I don't detect bitterness at all in this post/thread. What a silly response!
I would like to emphasize the counterpoint to Pepperband's original post:
Once a man links his sexual desire to true, soul-felt love, and focuses both on that single woman that is his alone, no other fantasy can possibly dent the fulfillment she will bring into his life ever-after.
Porn is laughable under this scenario. It's like watching a fast-food hamburger commercial on TV when you have access to a lifetime supply of New York strips and a world-class chef to prepare them for you every day (well, two-three times a week at least . . .).
She was (at least partly) posting to WHs who turn up on the Surviving an Affair forum having used pornography and prostitutes before, and sometimes during, marriage. They claim that their needs were not met by their BWs and that this is why they became wayward, but they need to take a look at the sources from where they constructed their "needs": rent-a-poke tarts and airbrushed, two-dimensional fantasies who do not answer back.
"Rent-a-poke tarts" ......
I had plans to post a much friendlier version of my ideas on one particular noobie WH's thread .... but I decided not to post to him any further once I accessed that particular WH possessed certain traits that make me a bad match for him. But yet, I had these ideas that I thought might be useful in a general sense. So, I started a separate thread. Also, I just wanted to get these ideas fully expressed so I could read them too. Get these ideas off my chest. Then, I decided to request the mods move this thread to other topics. I think, thus far, every response has merit.
Another source of inspiration for me to begin this thread came from one Dr Phil episode I recorded and watched later. 4 married couples in the "Dr Phil house" are trying to resurrect their failing relationships. One man has stated that his wife is failing to meet his sexual needs. What need in particular? He wants his wife to give him a "BJ on demand" every day. And, he truly does not see how/why this is a turn off for his wife. He is not intentionally malicious. He is simply 100% clueless about a woman's sexual needs. Although it was not stated, I strongly suspect he has a porn problem. This particular husband blames the marriage breakdown on his wife's super strong interest in God. Interesting.
And, another source of inspiration for this thread came from my reading Passionate Marriage (Schnarch) a couple of times. His ideas for improving marriage sexuality is a very spiritual and sensual approach. Schnarch also talks about "radical honesty" in the bedroom, but he does not use Dr Harley's exact words.
Yet another source for this thread came from John Eldredge's book Wild At Heart. In particular:
Originally Posted by Wild at Heart
The number one problem between men and their women is that we men, when asked to truely fight for her ... hesitate. We are still seeking to save ourselves, we have forgotten the deep pleasure of spilling our life for another.
There is something mythic in the way that a man is with a woman. Our sexuality offers a parable of amazing depth when it comes to being masculine and feminine. The man comes to offer his strength and the woman invites the man into herself, an act that requires courage and vulnerability and selflessness for both of them. Notice first that if the man will not rise to the occasion, nothing will happen. He must move, his strength must swell before he can enter her. But neither will the love consummate unless the woman opens herself in stunning vulnerability. When both are living as they were meant to live, the man enters the woman and offers her his strength. He spills himself there, in her, for her, she draws him in, embraces and envelops him. When all is over, he is spent, but ah, what a sweet death it is.
And that is how life is created. The beauty of a woman arouses a man to play the man, the strength of a man, offered tenderly to his woman, allows her to be beautiful, it brings life to her and to many.
This is far more than sex and orgasm. It is a reality that extends to every aspect of our lives. When a man withholds himself from his woman, he leaves her without the life only he can bring. This is never more true than how a man offers , or does not offer, his words.
Life and death are in the power of the tongue says Proverbs (18:21). She is made for and craves words from him.
If the man refuses to offer himself, then his wife will remain empty and barren. A violent man destroys his wife with words, a silent man starves his wife.
'She's wilting' a friend confessed to me about his new bride. 'If she's wilting then you're withholding something', I said. Actually, it was several things.... his words, his touch, but mostly, his DELIGHT.
So, now you know how my mind works. Several sources of information/inspiration stir around in my brain for awhile, and out pops some theory that might seem random or haphazard if you do not know where I am coming from. It's like having all the Muppets talking inside my head. It eventually makes sense (sort of) .
This inability to satisfy the emotional part of SF make them rotten lovers. Without the emotional part of SF this is nothing more than self satisfaction of visiting a prostitute. The outcome is the same. You are still left empty after such a visit.
15 posts in 3 years .... You are not about verbosity or abundance of words, dear man, but you are all about quality contemplation and rumination of ideas.
You've done it again. Your in site to the SF of marriage is spot on. You've also given me another book I must read (PM). I loved Wild at Heart ( a must for men ).
Keep those muppets in your head talking, SOMEONE with great insight has their hand up those little guys you know what....and it all makes perfect sense.
"Train the mind and the body will react Grasshopper" KungFu
Me (BH): 42 Her (WS): 39 Married 19 yrs DD: 16, DD: 11, DD: 7 D-Day: 7-5-2011, Caught searching 10-15-2012
You've also given me another book I must read (PM).
It's a demanding book, in my experience. Didactic and a bit dry. But, the ideas sparkle. (for me)
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I loved Wild at Heart ( a must for men ).
I bought it for my H. He loved it too. (I read his copy & love it)
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Keep those muppets in your head talking, SOMEONE with great insight has their hand up those little guys you know what....and it all makes perfect sense.
Insidious is too soft a term, especially when dealing specifically with internet porn. Malignant is more fitting.
The word is Evil.... Evil is real, and it feast on the fears and insecurities of men who don't trust the One who can defeat it.
Floating around in existence, unviewed, pornography is nothing. I'll not grant it any power with a reference of "evil."
Any object, or form of media, or word, is granted any power it may have by either the weilder, or the observer.
Abusers weild the love of those they abuse as a weapon against them. Does that make love evil?
The word choice of malignancy is an indirect reference to cancer; something that keeps growing, causes pain, and destroys health through the disruption of natural processes. It may have always been there, but until discomfort or disruption is felt, it went unnoticed.
The problem we face now is far different than sneaking a peak at the girly mags Tommy Johnson's old man kept stuffed under a mattress. Its and endless buffet of zeroo-work gratification and novelty that is literally leaving our young men impotent and unable to form real relationships.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
TJ/This is scary stuff. My FOUR yr-old grandson has discovered online games on a "super hero" site. He has become addicted FAST. Now when he is told he has to quit playing, he goes into a meltdown. He talks about his games all the time and he just started playing a month ago! My H made the comment that it's as if he wants to jump into the screen with them. His mother has put a stop to this (thank God!) because I can see where he could easily graduate into more fantasy.
We're encouraging him to play outside, play with his sister, build something.
I think about all the parents who have used computer games as babysitters. Now that a lot of the games are linked into the Internet for competitive play with other users, it's so easy to click a link that takes a kid outside of the safety zone of that site.
I don't think Internet filters can keep up.
My four year-old grandson could grow up to be a terrible husband. It's not a stretch to see that happening.
IMO, it's the parent's (and grandparents' in my case) responsibility to stop it in its tracks.
/TJ
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage ********************* “In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
TJ/This is scary stuff. My FOUR yr-old grandson has discovered online games on a "super hero" site. He has become addicted FAST. Now when he is told he has to quit playing, he goes into a meltdown. He talks about his games all the time and he just started playing a month ago! My H made the comment that it's as if he wants to jump into the screen with them. His mother has put a stop to this (thank God!) because I can see where he could easily graduate into more fantasy.
We're encouraging him to play outside, play with his sister, build something.
I think about all the parents who have used computer games as babysitters. Now that a lot of the games are linked into the Internet for competitive play with other users, it's so easy to click a link that takes a kid outside of the safety zone of that site.
I don't think Internet filters can keep up.
My four year-old grandson could grow up to be a terrible husband. It's not a stretch to see that happening.
IMO, it's the parent's (and grandparents' in my case) responsibility to stop it in its tracks.
/TJ
DD 11 is a gamer. Yet, she is nowhere close to what my nephews are.
They are over for Thanksgiving, one is 6 and one is 12. When they come over, its like a home invasion. Both have to be constantly on the TV, the computer, a DS, some kind of game, or something. Its CONSTANT. DD will have spurts, but these boys have no self-entertainment skills...
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
It eventually makes sense (sort of) .
![[Linked Image from exclaim.ca]](http://exclaim.ca/images/up-muppets_lg.jpg)
Evil is real, and it feast on the fears and insecurities of men who don't trust the One who can defeat it.