Don't appear clingy. She'll hate that. Anything you do send her, make sure it goes with Plan A. If you aren't sure, ask here first. And when you feel like calling her and begging her to come home, come write here instead. Lean on us, we don't mind. It's what we're here for.

I'm not on AD. I have thought about it, but I don't like to take meds. I haven't even had any alcohol or anything.

I'm going to switch gears a bit here. Aside from my WW having an A, there are things I need to work on. Some of the complaints that my WW had over the years were: Double standards, insecurity, lack of trust, not enough help around the house, I didn't listen, she didn't feel like an adult, everything had restrictions, she didn't have enough space because I wanted to be with her all the time, if she wanted to go to the movies with a friend, I gave her a guilt trip. I don't necessarily agree with these complaints, but they are her feelings. I have to respect how she feels. In the event she agrees to my conditions to return home, what can I do to work on the other things in the mean time?

BTW she brought the kids over today and we decorated the tree together. They were here for several hours. It was a decent day.

GJ, all of these things are things you will give her a chance to correct in the future. For example, she will have to make a radical 180 degree change and start ACTING like a wife so you don't feel insecure. And asking for "space" and going off to the movies with friends is NOT how she can earn trust. The way she rebuilds trust is spend all of her leisure time with you, eliminating all opposite sex friendships.

She will have to commit to spending 20+ hours a week with you giving you undivided attention. That is what it will take just to maintain the romantic love in your marriage. As her husband, that is the least you should expect.

So, if she wants to return home you should make it on the condition that she stop acting in ways that would make any normal person insecure.

P.s. The reason you have no trust for your wife is very obvious: she is untrustworthy. It was too much trust that led to 2 affairs. And the reason you were insecure when she went out is because you know she is untrustworthy and has poor boundaries around men. Your wife has put you through holy hell for years. Se has committed adultery not once, but TWICE. She has a long history of thoughtless, selfish cruelty and you have a long history of enabling her.

From reading your last post it is clear she has also gaslighted you for a long time. For you to blame yourself for not trusting her and for being insecure is a sign of gas lighting.

Gotta agree with Mel. Your wife's list of complaints are the wah-wah-wah of someone who doesn't want to consider you. Didn't she say that? That she wants to not have to answer to anyone?

Think about that real hard, G. She's a wife and mother pitching a fit about being responsible to her family...

CWMI and ML,
You're absolutely right. I agree with what you're saying. I guess nice guys finish last like they say. It's unfortunate that we're going to end up divorced. It's not what I want, but it's the reality of the situation. I don't think she has it in her to do a 180 and live up to those conditions. Maybe in time she might; who knows.

I think you need to stop feeding her cake, sir. Go Plan B. Get your kids home (my goodness, they hate that 1br apartment, don't they?), go dark! It will be easy since your wife is already out of the house. Don't play house with her anymore. She can either come home under the conditions you lay out in your Plan B letter (vets can help you with this) or she can stay the eff out. She has NO REMORSE. She will have to hit bottom to feel any, if she is even capable of it. Sitting in a 1br apartment by herself on Christmas, unable to arrange contact with her children unless it is through a third party, may make her a bit less smug about 'not having to answer to anybody'.

Is the OM back home with his wife? I know you posted that she put him out. Did she let him back home?

I agree that you are likely to end up divorced. Your wife has been wayward for most of your marriage and I suspect you have enabled her for all these years. The history you have described is not much of a marriage at all. If your marriage had EVER been good, I would say there was something here to fight for, but that is not the case. She has been selfish and reckless for your entire marriage. I doubt she has ever done a good job of meeting your needs or even knows how to be a good wife. Am I right?

Personally, I think you would be better off filing for divorce and going into Plan B. Give her a letter which outlines your conditions and if she agrees to them all, you have hope. If not, you end up divorced. And you NEED to get divorced as long as she doesn't meet those conditions becuase you don't have a marriage otherwise.

Yes, Plan B right away! Christmas is the perfect time to do so.

In GA, opposite-sex children require separate bedrooms in both custody cases and dfacs investigations (I think they call dfacs something else in CA--it's the people who check out abuse/neglect).

Your wife doesn't stand a chance of getting custody of those kids so long as she does not have adequate housing for them (which in your sitch requires 3 bedrooms). If there were no judge involved, sure; she could keep them on burlap sacs under a bridge for all the law is ignorant of such things. But bring in a judge, and she will have to have adequate housing.

Get your children home, and go dark. Right now your wife feels like she isn't losing anything, because she still has her kids, she still has you pining, she may still have OM, and she has her 'not answer to anyone one bedroom apartment'. Which she has not yet realized isn't an escape, but a trap.

I've spoken to several lawyers about getting custody of my children and what is or isn't adequate housing for them. I've laid out the scenario and difference in pay. I've been told that the agreement that my WW and I have laid out is the best possible solution for me and the children. They've told me that a judge will take into consideration the living space and say that as long as the house is clean and the children are taken care of, they won't favor me for more custody than her and that the girls could have the bedroom and the boys could have the living room. I couldn't believe it when they said this. The agreement states that we share equal custody (joint/legal). She waives alimony and my retirement. Child support would be $1374 per month. I keep everything in the house and she keeps what she has. She has 37K in bills and I have 11k. The lawyers said that if I try to fight for custody, I may end up losing more than I bargain for because at the very least, I will still get equal custody, but end up paying more money in the end. They said it's a gamble.

GJ, what you will find is that most attorneys are lazy and will hand everything over to your wife so they don't have to work. Strangely, though, when our betrayed husbands find an attorney who has more energy than a dead tree stump they end up getting VERY FAVORABLE TERMS. Imagine that!! But most men lose because they chant "men always lose in court." And guess what?? THEY DO!! When you roll over and play dead, you will be ......... dead.

Here is a better strategy. Sue your wife on grounds of adultery and abandonment. Ask for primary custody, posssession of your home and ZERO child support and ZERO alimony. Find a lawyer who has a more winning attitude than a French person and you will likely get this. We have men who get this all the time.

Here is what I go for:

1. 80/20 with no overnight visits

2. she pays child support of $500 per month, no alimony

3. you get possession of the home

4. she waives any rights to your retirement

5. your children are not exposed to her adultery partners

6. she gets 37k of debt and you get 11k - she pays all of her bills

Take that to an attorney and tell him this is what you expect. Find one that will get off his dead [censored] and get that for you.

California will not let you sue for adultery or abandonment. It's a no fault/community property state. I attended a workshop at the courthouse and I would have to prove that WW was unfit to take care of the children in order for me to get that arrangement of 80/20. I wish we were in GA, I'd get it all.

Texas is a no fault state and they DO take adultery into consideration when it comes to child support, visitation and alimony. Just because a state is no fault, does not mean they don't take it into account. I think the fact that your wife has no home for the children and can't support them would be taken into account.

And at the age of the children... there wishes are taken into account.

GJM,

The attorneys are right. I'm not surprised they told you this.

How is your CS being calculated?

I would get her to agree to the overnight schedule, but leave CS to the legal system. CS is calculated based on overnights. If you have 50/50, then CS is very low. The number you mentioned sounds more like a shared custody arrangement where you don't have 50/50, but you do have shared physical custody. Still, it sounds a bit high, but that may be the case in Cali.

If you're being offered 50/50, I'd take it, but leave the CS calcualtions up to the formula, which will give you credit for overnights.

Also make sure you cover the fact that you pay for the kids medical and any other expenses they may have. Those are all things that can be argued before a judge.

I think that if you have an agreement on overnights, then leave the CS to the judge. That may very well be worth your money.

I'll definitely leave that to the judge because they stay with me for a week at a time. The attorneys that I've spoken to used a calculator from the CA court web site and they were all the same because of the income difference. I won't put the CS in the agreement.

Does your WW have a degree? The courts will expect her to get a job.

If she has a degree and takes a minimum wage job you can file for voluntary impoverishment and you can make her earning potential an issue.

If she doesn�t have one you�re SOL.

But CS needs to be calculated with the assumption she is supporting herself with a job.