Agree Markos. I sure don't blame men and I don't see that happening too much on this board anymore. Solving the problem is more important than assigning blame, IMO.

I took that to mean that the man had a greater ROLE in assuring a happy sex life, not necessarily that he was to blame for a bad sex life. My experience on this board reflects my own personal experience and that is many women flat REFUSE to spend the necessary time with their husbands that it takes to sustain an emotional attachment.

Can the man be blamed if his wife refuses to spend any time with him? This is what I did with my last husband. I ENCOURAGED him to develop his own life and take frequent trips. I fostered an emotional detachment that made sex with him unthinkable.

These are the moments that I have respect for you, you know that?

Now, clarification; would you say it was solid aversion, or a lack of willingness/interest?


Beyond that - you will also see these women complain that their husband "doesn't pay attention to them."

It was mentioned that women with a sexual aversion will avoid IC and Affection because it often leads to SF.

I would think it reasonable, as well, that a husband would avoid IC and Affection, because it leads to a denial of SF, and they develop an aversion to rejection.

I slept on the couch a lot, as the marital bed had become a platform of rejection.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, then the whole thing plays out predictable; spouses begin resorting to SDs, AOs, DJs because their needs aren't being met.


Awfully mechanical, us "intelligent" meat-bags can be...

Can I get an AMEN?

From Rising Sun;

"The Japanese have a saying, "Fix the problem, not the blame." Find out what's f****d up and fix it. Nobody gets blamed. We're always after who f****d up. Their way is better."

So how does a woman (or man) get from walking down the aisle on the happiest day of their life to the point of "lack of interest" or "aversion"?

I know and any serious MB'er should know.

I think you expressed it well Hold in this one sentence...

"Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, then the whole thing plays out predictable; spouses begin resorting to SDs, AOs, DJs because their needs aren't being met."

thankee


Oh believe me, it was an aversion for me. Most women have an aversion to having sex with men to whom they are not emotionally attached. And of course, some simply are not interested.


True, we see that too.

Scorekeepers.


External locus !!!!

Er, wouldn't doing what it takes to have a good marriage be an INTERNAL locus?


[insert age joke here]

If it makes you feel any better, our denom is often accused of being cultish as well. Hyper-calvinists... (me after 5 cups of coffee).

Lol! that's about it!

Actually, it's Dr H's ASSUMPTION. After all, he's assuming the sex problem is due to some failure on his part.

I talked him out of it. He let me, even though he supposedly had been to more of the infidelity rodeos than had I. But once he knew of the affair, maybe 6 weeks after we started working together, it really didn't make any difference. The advice was the same, meet needs, eliminate love busters, see if you can get her to do the questionnaires.

Maybe I'm missing something here. So perhaps I was unclear, or perhaps I'm not following.

I'll address the potential that I was unclear.

My XWW called me weeks ago saying that our daughter was withdrawn, she wouldn't talk, and that she's keeping secrets from her.

I said, that's the very same behavior I got from you. Years before your affair, I begged you to be open with me, but you were withdrawn, you wouldn't talk, when asked how you were, you said fine.

Now our daughter is doing the very same things you did during our marriage. Is it possible this is a learned behavior, modeled by you, adopted by her?

DJ, or is it an observation from knowing one all her life, and the other for almost 20 years?


Not a judgment. I didn't say the behavior was good or bad. In fact, if anything, it was XW who was engaged in at the very least a double standard, which is a form of DJ. I.E. it's OK when I do that, because I have good reasons, but when my daughter does it, it's not right, there is a problem.

So perhaps you were pointing out my XWW's DJ.

Otherwise, perhaps I'm missing something that causes an observation to become a DJ.

Let me say... When I left this morning we were on page 3 or 4.... A long work day, girls in basketball, dinner, shower and bed.... I come back to find 12 pages. This is the most action I've gotten in a long time. ... He he

I love the post and found most very insightful. I would like to know how to get those short "quotes" in my post.

I also would like to know if there is a program to help women who may have sexual aversion or a sexual phobia? Does Dr. Harley address phobias?

Do moderators ever contribute to these threads? Do the Harley's?

Keep the post coming, this is a major issue in marriage.

OK, bring on the references. I'm willing to be educated. You indicate that he says it's easier for husbands to win back their wives. I'd like to hear a clip that indicates it's easier for a husband to win back his wayward wife than it is for a wife to win back a wayward husband.

But perhaps it's semantics. That's why I asked the clarifying question. Is it easier for men to work the program, or are the hurdles they have to overcome easier than the hurdles faced by the BW.

Because we may both be right. It may be easier for the husband to work the program. After all, Dr H recommends a longer plan A for husbands than he does for wives. That implies it's easier on the man to unilaterally meet needs and eliminate LBs than it is for a woman to do this.

If that is what you are saying, I agree.

But what I'm saying is the typical BH faces higher hurdles to overcome compared to the typical BW. Women build walls. After all, this topic is about the wall built, typically by women, with respect to SF. It's not the whole topic, but that wall building in one manifestation of the issue.

If she's emotionally walled off her husband, his plan A, even if perfect will have ZERO impact.

The typical WH, will still allow his BW to meet his needs. If she faces a wall, it's not as formidable as the wall erected by the WW.

So when I speak of it being easier, it's in those terms. The WW is far more likely to totally wall off her BH than a WH is likely to totally wall off his BW.
I'm having a problem because we are assuming it's his behavior that has caused her to wall him off. We are assuming that he's neglecting her.

What if he's just not doing the right things? He's meeting needs, but doesn't get credit for them, because they are the "wrong" needs, or she questions his motives. I.E. he's only being nice because he wants to get laid. (A DJ, BTW) When he asks how things are, her total feedback is fine. Except there is a disconnect. Things certainly are not fine in the bedroom, but when asked what would make things better, all he gets is things are "fine."
Not at all. But I am suggesting that if a wife is both complaining that there is not emotional connection, and she's refusing to have sex, then perhaps she has a role to play in that lack of emotional connection since she's refusing to meet a legitimate emotional need.
I agree, and refusing to have sex with your spouse is a backstabbing choice. Again, don't assume that the wanting husband is stabbing his wife in the back.

He may be clueless, and I admit I was clueless. But malicious? Not on your life.
Nope, I get it. Getting told no and everything is fine can make one lose his desire. So I totally get not having desire. Eventually you just shut that part of yourself off because you have no realistic hope of having that part of your relationship.

Then imagine the hurt when you find out that while she wouldn't have sex with you, falling on the penis of a married man the age of her father was something she was into.

No, I get being stabbed in the back. I really do.

Yes, I know that. I think it's poorly placed. It may be pragmatic, as men are at such a disadvantage in the courts that they need to be more careful. But I don't think men are any worse behaved, nor do I believe they care any less about relationships.

Now they may care about different things. But we knew that. After all, even Dr Harley says that men and women have different "typical" emotional needs.

We wouldn't say women don't care as much about relationships as men because they don't have the same sex drive, so why would we accept the notion that men don't care as much or are not as relational, or that men are not as well equipped for relationships?

It's an offensive proposition. It comes across as the DJ that it is.

Men and women are equal opportunity offenders when it comes to marital problems.

Simile. Demonstrating how things are similar. Just because you may not see it doesn't mean they don't share similarities.