Thanks Northwood, must be northern Minnesota? North Dakota here. Anyway, I have had access to all accounts, I know what's there, and what's supposed to be there. I have bank records and whatnot. I do have one card that is only mine. The other one is joint. Oh wait, there's a lowe's card and one other. Either way. She thinks and is telling everyone that I was going to empty the bank and leave without a trace. -shrugs-

I'm not worried about what will happen there. Her family, no matter what happens would never let it happen. Besides, if she did, guess what, her car is in my name. So much for the brand new jeep we just got her. heh

I'm slowly, very slowly coming to realize what a piece of work she has become. Due to whatever reasons, the affair, the 20 something friends she now has, and the one EA I do know about with a guy three states away, who she won't stop talking to. No one believes me about that one either.

Of course to all of her friends, I'm the bad guy. That's ok, plan A will show them better than that. Here's to me!

North Dakota, you say. Bet you get a lot of Fargo movie "ooh yah?" jokes

If you heard me speak in person, you'd never think Minnesota was my home. I'm in Mississippi, actually. It's a tad warmer down here than where you are, but thanks for the laugh!

Ohh yah, and You betcha. Sad thing is, that's more of a canadian accent. And we get plenty of those down here, especially on the week ends.

On another note. She's either gone underground with the original OM, or she has another. Hacked her picture mail, is all I can do a with the phone's we have. Anyway, she's been sending pictures, one lastnight of her going to sleep..makes me sick. So I have a phone number, and that's it. VAR in her jeep as of this morning.

Tried to google the number and nothing came back. Just know it has an Indiana area code. A number I don't know. We lived in Indiana for 2 years...but back then, it was a tough time all we had was each other. The only person I know for a fact she still talks to there is an old co-worker who is happily married. In fact, he still kinda talks to me.

Of course, it could be a new co-worker here, being as she works for a school, and people from all over come. But still seems kinda fishy. While we were there, we were broke, just barely making it. Never really did much without the other. Not to say there wasn't a chance. But that was 3 years ago now.

Of course, there is always the chance, that her friend from a few states away moved due to his job. Could happen. At this point, I know not what to do. Frustrated and want to call the number and either try to social engineer a name, or just rage at the guy.

Yup, you betcha, gotta get some answer, ooh yah.

I haven't gone back and closely read everything, but here is what I'm picking up.

You suspect, probably are sure, that she had been unfaithful in the past as well as now.

There are no children involved.

She doesn't seem to be particularly worried that people know.

Her family and friends are not going to put any pressure on her.

She wants to move, you want to stay. That ain't gonna change if you stay married or not.

Just want to point out that there are big obstacles. A lot of the success of the affair busting part of MB (Exposure, etc) assumes that eventually there are things that will cause the wayward to stick with the marriage, begrudgingly at first possibly. A lot of those things are missing here. All there is is you. That may be enough. But you even have different goals about where you live, etc.

Not telling you to do one thing vs another, that is your choice. I empathize with your feelings. I was older when my troubles started, two of my children were already at college, the youngest was at the point where she was pretty independent, so "doing it for the kids" was not a big player. I wanted to do it because I loved my wife and wanted to stay with her. So I get it.

Also, I am not sure if anyone has pointed this out, I haven't caught it if so.

You should NOT be confiding and discussing personal matters with a friend of the opposite sex, especially a married one. You may scoff and say, "she is just a friend, I've known her forever, blah, blah, ...." You should stop. It is dangerous for you, and her.

Herb,

I hear you. I really do. And your right about a few things. I have actually stopped talking to my married friend. I came to that conclusion awhile ago. She was just the only one I could get information from about my WW.

So, I've mostly been on here, and talking with two of my guy friends exclusively. That and my mother.

Also, she only wanted me to move out awhile ago. I said no, and that if she wants out of the relationship so bad, she should leave. To which she stated that she has just as much right to live in the house as me. Which is true. But with the paperwork I found yesterday, she listed me as getting the house. Probably to try and passify (SP) me to let her go.

Sure, the more I look into things, the closer I get to the point of finally believing she will never change. Doesn't mean I can't change myself and become the guy I was and make him better.

I was never against moving. She has a great job that she loves. I was all for it actually. But now, taking stock, without a reason to move, IE a loving wife, I have all I need here.

So, I hear you. I understand what you are saying. Perhaps I have a clouded view of things as well. That's slowly lifting. Still have to try I guess. It's disheartening to know it will probably not turn out the way I dream...

I think you get it. I am not trying to discourage you.

I just think it is a disheartening to have unrealistic expectations as it is to have no hope.

Keep it up as long as yo can. I am pulling for you.

Herb,

That means alot to me. Thanks mister.

On a side note, I have a name and an address to go with the number. What to do with that as I can't find anything else.

-Crestfallen

Crest, great job on coming up with a creative solution to get your VAR. Within the next few days (while putting plan A into effect and not worrying about what she says and does) you should have some goods to go on so you can decide what to do next.

Crest you seem to really have your head on your shoulders straight. IF you want your marriage, I think you got a good chance of turning this around. Just make sure to NOT confront your wife if you discover anything in the next few days. Keep the plan A going and bring your info here for the vets to disect and direct.

You got a name, number and address? GREAT! Have you done a google search on the name? or the number? Have you done a reverse telephone number look up? How often is this number being contacted?

Gotta be a "james bond" in all this .. calm .. assertive.. and when the moment is right (with the good of course) you do a nuclear exposure again but with some solid proof to back up your claims.

You said you sent a letter to your wifes HR? Was there any response from them? If your wife was to lose her job .. can you support the home until she finds something different after her withdrawl stage wears off?

Keep up the great work!

MrNiceGuy

A text conversation.

Her: I'm not interested in Marriage builders. I'll be at Counselor at 1.

Me: What's wrong with Marriage builders?

Her: I'm not interested in working on things. I want to tie up loose ends.

Me: The affair your in is killing me, yet I still see a way to work through it.

Her: You will never believe that is over or has been for such a long time. Let me go.

Me: Does the new guy know your married to a man who loves you?

Her: What are you talking about?

Me: #, I think his name is XXXXX. Is he a married man too?

Her: Why do you say I'm having an affair with him?

Me: The lewd picture you sent asking if he wanted more. Kinda speaks for itself.

Yup, probably just went to far...oh well. She knows I know...

Her answer..."When are you going ot leave it alone?

Me: When you stop having an affair and really look at this whole thing. Yes I wasn't perfect. But that never gave the right to have an affair...much less more than one.

Haven't heard anything from her HR. Somehow I think maybe she got in on that somehow..maybe sent her own letter. Maybe stated how I was insane and sending things that weren't true to try and ruin her.

Tell her that her feelings are temporary and are not always truthful and that you can be the man she has always wanted and that MB has the tools to fix the issues between you two as well as the fact its cheaper! Feelings follow actions! (this took a while for my wife to realize but now she sings it too)

Example .. you dont feel good then work out. You work out then you feel good.

Gotta remember also.. waywards can not be educated. They are addicted! Their fog will not allow them to see what they are doing. Which is why YOU drive the marriage bus and take away her keys. Waywards lie ... lie .. and lie some more. They lie so much they believe their own lies. Do not educate your wife .. just keep doing MB on your own for a while. Get surviving an affair book.

MNG

I have the books at home right now. Doing what I can, but after this...I'm not so sure there's end in sight. I was just doing my stick. Or I thought so.

I can tell her all those things and more, but it feels hopeless.

So, another worthwhile (sarcasm) MC session. Yup. It was enlightening. -sigh- Kept saying the affair was over a long time ago. Tried, I know I know, to explain about how I felt once I found out. Whether or not it was actually over, how her being friends with the OM hurt me. How she would not do what I needed of her by not talking to him ever.

Just like how she tried to play off the new number as her old co-worker whom I know. Sad thing is, they might have the same first name, but everything else is different. She faked giving me her phone to check, pulling back and saying "F that." Wow, a chance to prove me wrong. Damn WW is killing me. Tried so very hard to be matter of fact and not get caught up in the fight. Just kept saying it can be fixed.

The MC is on her side though. Doesn't believe there's an OM. I still feel it. But without concrete proof. WW also said she "just wants to be free. I don't want to be attached anymore." Blah blah blah.

Sounds like a lot of what I read on here over and over again. The only problem is, what am I fighting for? Without children it seems like it might just not be worth it.

Though I did get her to cry. At the end I stated, though hard to bring the words together correctly, that everything I am doing and becoming is not supposed to hurt you. All of it, except the pain I am feeling is just what I AM doing to show you that I accept my failures and will be a better person.

The MC asked if we could be friends if after Plan D. I had to be completely honest. Not with how badly she hurt me with the Affairs. There is still a way to do it, if only a chance would be given.

I was asked at one point what it would take for me to let her go. The only thing I could think was for her to move out. She wants out so badly she should leave. We'll do all the household stuff later. She's in a hurry to get it all done.

Fog-babble? You tell me.

-Crestfallen

Why would you even want to go to a MC like that? I don't get it.

What is it accomplishing.

Like they say around here, an expert is just someone from out of town.

I didn't want to go. She refuses to even look at MB.

Not worth it. I believe this was the last session covered by insurance. Either way, I've been trying to get her to agree to at least read SAA so she can see where I am coming from. Again, complete refusal.

I don't hate the MC, but she wasn't helping from the beginning but I didn't know about all the things in MB. After a couple of sessions I had already read the books and tried to get both the MC and WW to read them. See that things could be better. Oh well.

Crestfallen, one thing we say around here (and it's true): you can't educate a wayward.

Do your part to bust up the affair, do your part to be the awesome husband she will want to come home to.

You have SAA and are reading it?

Do you know you can talk to Dr. Harley for free on his radio show?

If and when you get the goods VIA the VAR and you expose this to your wifes work place ... can you support your home without her added income? You may need to. If she had no job ... she would have no choice financially but to stay until she found another job. Hence giving you some time to "work on it" I mean .. you got nothing to lose other than your wife whom wants to leave you ... so whats the harm in helping her "quit" her job? Whats she going to do?? leave you? she has already left you in her mind ... just hasnt physicaly done it yet. Why wait around for her to get her act together. Shes CAKE EATING.

Get the goods ... expose to her boss! = angry wife .. but you can survive her temporary anger if you want to save this. IF not ... you got no kids anyhow ... get the divorce papers going for her .. so YOU call the shots! That may wake her up that your serious and have a backbone she didnt know you have. If you got proof that shes "cheated" that may not fare well in court when it comes to dividing assets.

Of course wait til you got the goods ... before you lay your cards on the table.

As far as her work. Well, I sent a letter to them informing them of the affair that happened with the co-worker. I still haven't heard anything back from them at all.

The only thing I can go with right now, is that she has someone else. Tried to play it off as someone else, but if my information I got is good, then they are not the same person. If they happen to be the same person...then I have no idea what to do.

Is she lying? Yes, but until I have some concrete proof, I have nothing to go with. She's already stated she is looking for a place. I can stand to do as much as I have and more yet. Just trying to get to the bottom of all this. It's a tough struggle. But until I know the truth, no matter what it really is, I can't rest.

One thing kinda bothers me. She thinks I'm the one who went crazy or off the deep end. And I can't help but think to myself, what if I am wrong. What if there isn't an affair going on? Or that what if she is just done for no other reason than what she has said. And that I am grabbing at straws to try and figure it out? But everything points to an affair. And I mean, everything. Well, almost everything.

She already knows I have a backbone. She just wants a divorce that isn't fought tooth and nail. To be cordial as possible.

So, I think I have finally come to an end. Sure, I'll still plan A as much as possible. There is no end in sight. As in, she has no intention of of NC with the one OM I know of.

She says she is looking for a place to move into. As much as it saddens me, I can't keep up the pretense much longer really. As much as I would love for her to read and understand the MB way, I just don't see it happening. There isn't anyone pushing her to try and work it out on her side except me. Somehow that just doesn't seem like enough.

All I wanted was the chance to show her I could learn to be as close to perfect for her as possible. I was doing it. I know it in my heart. I just think that she doesn't want to admit she is in an affair. That it was just a one time physical thing. Maybe to her it was. I tried to rationalize that to myself in the beginning. I tried to lie to myself, and to everyone else that I know that I could get past it with ease.

I know now that it's possible without some of the things stated in SAA and on the website. Those things I asked for, almost begged for at one time. And in my emotional torment, even demanded. Though, now I am seeing her for what she really is. If I can believe my one friend and that my WW is a serial W, perhaps it's best to move on now. I have no idea. I'm lost, I'm tired, I haven't been eating very well, and I'm scared.

Not scared of the future for me, I know I can get past the emotions and the heart ache. I'm not scared of taking care of myself. I'm afraid of forging ahead alone, still in love with someone who hates me.

So much of it still rings like an affair...and I hate him, whoever it is. I don't use that term lightly. I'm in a competition with someone I don't even know and he has an unfair advantage, and it sucks.