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SEM, forgiveness should be contingent upon a radical 180 degree CHANGE. So it is more than just using some principles, it is making an actual LIFESTYLE CHANGE. That is when your forgiveness would be warranted. In her case, she didn't actually change. I can tell she is very wayward and has been that way for a long time. For example, she obviously has not stopped being alone with men.

That should have been boundary 101 of a serial cheater. Yet she never implemented that simple step. A cheater who was interested in protecting her spouse would do that, but she did not. She learned nothing from the past.

Melody,
You are correct, it is obviouse she has to make big changes.

I explained to here my own personal views on me having an A. I told her it would be easy to get in my head that I should be able to do the same thing she did (I missed out on the excitement of it). I had those thoughts 10 years ago, with much thought and time, I over came them and vowed to NEVER think that way again, as that would be no better than what she did; To date I haven't, and couldn't think that way, too much pain involved. She doesn't understand, it is not just learning these things, and iplimenting them, it is also a state of mind.

I do think if it weren't so destructive for our marriage to have an A, it would give her a perspective she hasn't or can't get currently. In the end she would only learn the lessons for her next marriage, as it would likely destroy this one.
She needs much work. She is willing, and I am certain will come around.

I too NEED to make big changes. I played my part in this. I led her to the poison apple and she ate it.

A couple of things that stand out to me would be the matter of "trust" and poor boundaries. It is too much trust that leads to affairs, as you have learned. Trust leads to non-existant boundary lines.

She is the one who went to the poison apple and ate it. She is an adult who is accountable for her own boundaries. She has none. Never has probably.

Your wife has probably, in the past, depended on WILL POWER to prevent affairs. But it is not will power that protects marriages, but good boundaries; ie: behaviors that support fidelity. Such as not having opposite sex friendships, not being alone with members of the OS, not being on social networking sites, and living a completely transparent lifestyle.

In your wife's case, it is obvious she doesn't GET how devastating affairs are to the victims. She has never got that. And until she does, and takes extraordinary precautions to prevent a repeat, she won't be safe to you or your kids. As it is today, she is dangerous to you.

Are you monitoring her phone use? If not, I would have spyware on her cell phone and a tap on your land line. Good cell phone spyware will have a GPS on it. I would be watching her like a hawk and plan on watching her for eternity. [don't you DARE tell her EVER about how you spy on her]

So sorry you are here. My serial cheater WS too learned all about MB and seemingly got on board...only to have another affair three years later. I REALLY do get how badly you are hurting right now.

I have skimmed through your thread and your WW's thread and even went back and looked at some of her old posts.

It's no surprise that these serial cheaters are very much alike, but I am sorry to tell you that your WW reminds me very much of my STBXWH. How?
~ lack of empathy
~ poor boundaries around opposite sex
~ history of independent behavior & a SSL (secret second life)

Like everyone else has been emphasizing ~ if she does not get serious and make a complete turn around, she WILL hurt you again. So far, her current thread is riddled with

I really hope those MB vets can get through to her (and no, they are not being too hard on her) but please know this, if they scare her away, she is NOT serious about recovery. Ask me how I know....

I saw in your WW's old postings that her affairs from 10 years ago were never exposed to her parents, but they were to your parents.

Have all of these A's been exposed to her parents? How about your child? (Sorry if I missed this)

Re Poly

That's good that she has agreed, but please know that my STBX agreed as well....until it came time to schedule it.

Have you scheduled the poly? If not, schedule it. Today.

Sorry to tell you that I do not believe for one minute that this last A was only OS.

Agree 100%. She is lying about that.

SEM, one of the biggest problems I see here is that she is in the habit of blaming YOU for her affairs and you are in the habit of perpetuating that blame. That has to stop. Until she takes 100% accountability for her crimes, she will never change. She came here with the belief she would be able to blame you again and is upset it didn't work this time. Don't you DARE allow her to do that again. And you stop playing that game with her.

All of the need meetin in the world will not compensate for her poor boundaries around men.

Hi Susie,
Thanks for taking interest, I understand its a bit much to read through everything on this thread at this point, if you havn't been following along.

It is hard to believe that she has been honest with all of this A. Last time she gave way too much info for me to believe she was holding anything back, I could be wrong. I am having a hard time believing it was just oral sex this time. I am less concerned about what was done (sex), as I am the is she being honest.

Kids know about this A. I don't think anyone will convince me that the previouse A's are a detail they need to know. This I will hold firm on, it will only cause them pain and will create hard feelings between the kids and WW. They needed to know about this A as it is affecting their lives right now.

I havn't sheduled a Poly, just purchased a house and funds are extremely low. I am planning on January after we get our bonuses and the other house may be sold by then.

I asked about your WW's parents. Have they been told about ALL of her affairs?

Melody,
Point taken, I will not mention again my part in this. I agree, she does try to blame me; How distant I was (buying a house), how she suspected me of an A (BS BS BS) I knew she had an A didn't drive me to it, hmmm???

SEM, is there some way you can come up with the money? This is really important to get this done so you can move onto the next stage. One of the first steps is getting all the truth out there so you can go onto next steps. Going through a polygraph in January just adds another D-Day to the mix because it is another D-Day. Your wife is very foggy and I don't believe you are getting the full truth. She has a very long term habit of lying and I suspect she is lying here and that there have even been other affairs.


It won't hurt your kids or your wife to tell them about her past history of cheating. They will find out anyway.

Susie,
I lost that thought as I was typing. NO not this time, last time she told her mother she was give extremely bad advice. We will not make that mistake again. Her mothers poor parenting and alcoholism created some of WW charector flaws early in life.

I am not going to argue with you about this but please understand that shielding your WW from the consequences of her A is part of what the problem is here. Dr Harley advocates telling the *truth* and that includes exposing past affairs.

The only details your kids would need to know is that she had xx affairs xx yrs ago.

I am not sure I understand.

They haven't been told yet of any of the affairs? When is all of this going to be exposed to them?

Agree 100%.

Your WW has a LONG history of having a secret second life, and this becomes a very hard habit to break. There is no point in even trying to recover if she doesn't come clean.

Have you even called around to see how much it would cost in your area?

Melody and Susie,
I am taking this advise and with past advice will think on it. I am wholeheartedly going to work on MB and your advice here, however, there will be some things I will not agree with and will hold firm on, this is one of them.
Those A's happened before my daughter was born and when my son was 1 year, there is no need for them to see their Mother in that light. They don't understand the complexities of these problems and why they happen and that info can cause resentment for the rest of their lives. If this marriage ended tomorrow, I would not tell them of previous A's.

For the third (and last) time ... WW should pay for the poly herself.
She can pawn some of her jewelry.

Susie,
Her mother was told last time, she didn't help our marriage with the advice she gave her daughter. Her mother wont hold her accountable. She is more likely to tell her it is her life to do what she wants, and "if H doesn't like it he can leave". That is what we would likely hear if we expose this to WW's mother. No need, My mother is a much bigger influence on my W.

SEM, with all due respect, "that light" is the TRUTH. All you mean is that you don't want them to see her in a "true light." Her history speaks to her true character. A character that plagues your family and your children's lives to this day. Children are not made happy or secure by believing illusions and lies about their parents.

You don't help your children, you or your wife by not giving them the full story. There is much more to the story and that "more" plagues them TODAY. This did not happen in a vacuum. It is a long pattern of your wife's.

Think about it. I don't think you are doing her or them any favors. If she were serious, she would want them to know. But as we have seen she is not serious, SEM.

Yes Pepper, I can see your point. No pawn shops in PA, not legal here. It is something to entertain.