Regarding the children, this is what my son said to me: Mom, Dad says he made a mistake and won't do it again. It was another dday for him all over again when I explained this wasn't the first time.



Senn, do you see how not following all of the steps back in 2001 did not help you? It seems as though you cherry picked through the advice at that time and you are doing it again this time.

Do you see this or no? I am just curious.

A pattern of lying or distorting what he knows

Mel - You've got AOL mail.

I just want him to be fully honest. No excuses or false facts. Give us the full truth in every post.

I agree.

Wow, two fact that I have been wrong about today. I can only say this, what I have said and do say here is what I believe to be the honest truth. I have always strived to be an honest person, and am known at work for being too honest and sometimes blunt. I can only hope you all do not interperate these inconsistancies as lies, but insead understand they were only ignorance.

I do apoligize for this confusion on my part, I honestly thought she had told her mother as we had discussed this.
As for my priviouse opinion about the matter, it hasn't changed, her mother is as I described and will not help. She lives in CO and doesn't have the mantality or moral character I desire to correctly influence my WW.

As for Keep Smiling post in '04, I do not know what she is talking about when she says "by accident". That was no accident, I did take the advice here and called my mother and talked to her extensively, she helped me through the rough times. I also called and explained the whole thing to my father as recomended, despite my resistance, as we didn't see him or talk to him much.

I am almost embarrassed for you to find inconsistancies in what I have said, they honestly were not intentional mistruths. Purely ignorance. I have not gone through our old posts other than DDay 09/11/01 and will likely be wrong again as I cannot remember everything from 10 years ago.

Your wife is a thriving liar. She has been lying so much, you may have missed out on 11 years of truth. This is scary. She is dangerous. That is a lot of lies to sort through.

Polygraph or file for immediate divorce, you get full custody, and she pays you child support. She gets no more chances. Either she makes a 360 degree life change or I would be done.

This is no surprise ~ she is a very dishonest person and that's what has made her secret second life and all of her affairs possible.

Do you see now why we are telling you a polygraph is necessary? And no, it is not something you can put on the back burner. It is *that* important if you want to recover this M.

Here is Dr Harley's opinion, which I assume you are interested in hearing.


and this:



This is very straightforward, senn. The affairs (current and past) should be exposed to the children, both sets of parents and any other close family member or friends. The very fact that your WW didn't want her mom to know before tells me that she would very much be a good person to expose to.

BTW, if you aren't going to follow this advice, it is a BIG to me that you aren't going to be carefully following the recovery plan here.

Sen,

I gave out trickle truth to my son's with my H's prior affair. In fact, it took me 3 years to tell them! I protected H from the consequences of his actions. I think telling them the past showed that H has a character flaw, up until then they saw it as hey he fell in love with someone else, stuff happens.

Look at my sig line, not a good track record. I am not saying that it would have stopped the A from continuing, but I won't know that bc I didn't follow the plan! I am trying to get you to see that plan Sen didn't work in the past, why not try plan MB? Just think about it.

Senn, one thing bothers me and I'm sorry to bring this up, but

you have said

Have you ever done a DNA test?

Sad but true and necessary.

There was some (alot) of concern about the Daughter, to be honest she was born 6 weeks early and by my calculations that would have put at full term from the last A. So the DR. could have been wrong about conception date. I can say we KNOW for certain 100% that it is my child, I don't need to explain this and will not go into detail. For that matter, we are 100% certain on both children. As I said before, IT WOULD NOT MATTER, DNA woudn't make them someone elses kids at this point. Only a cold heart would walk away from them for something they had nothing to do with.

I've been trying to stay off the posts as others need your help and I cannot help others right now, just reading lately.

A little update:
Had a long talk with WW about trust, honesty (complete honesty) and taking responsibility for what she did to our marriage, but also for our friends marriage.
I got the whole cold truth from her, details of things that I wouldn't have ever even suspected or known about. I am not going to give those details here, as I don't want them picked apart and do not need anyone giving me doubt- I feel good about what she told me (hurts alot). We will do the Poly, and she now says she knows she will pass. She said she does want to take responsibility and that is why she told me everything. I explained that if there is more she will fail and so will this marriage, she is confortable with that. I explained that if there is something worth loosing a marriage over, might as well save the $400 - $500 to use in starting our lives over, she said she is good and will pass.

WW talked to OM's W this AM and came clean, told her everything. OM's W asked for phone records as OM used work phone and his records are inaccessable. WW sent the records to her. She is starting to take responsibility for what she did, and has stopped with the excuses.

I took a big blow to the heart when she came clean last night, but feel we are getting to a position we can start our recovery. The next big day is soon to come, Poly will happen!!!

SEM, I am relieved you are going forward with the polygraph because it really is necessary. I understand you might not want to post details, but let me just point out that you are the least objective person on this thread. That is because you have a vested interest in believing her stories whereas we do not. That is why this forum is so valuable as a truth detector. We are almost always RIGHT.

It is a CLASSIC ploy of waywards to throw out a few crumbs before the polygraph in the hopes the BS will cancel it. Don't fall for that ploy.

We have ALL experienced our WS's looking us in the face and swearing sincerely that something was true only to find out later it was baldfaced lie. That is the rule rather than the exception. We know how tempting it is to want to believe our spouses. Keep that in mind when she tells you something.

And I will add that to the fact that your wife is very foggy as evidenced in her posts yesterday. She is sorry alright, sorry she GOT CAUGHT. She is not sorry for the pain she caused her victims. Your wife has no empathy so her "coming clean" is very suspect. She is in cover her [censored] mode.

You are afraid that somebody here will tell you something that would be unpleasant for you to hear. You will go to great lengths to avoid hearing something that you don't want to hear. This buys you some short term "feeling good."

That's the facts, Senn. I fear that you are going to have to become more willing to face unpleasant truths if you want to be strong enough to recover. I know this feeling as I like to avoid unpleasant truths myself. But avoiding them does not make them go away.

Are you afraid that somebody will tell you something you don't want to hear and they will be wrong? Or are you afraid that somebody will tell you something you don't want to hear and they will be right?

Why is avoiding doubt a goal? Do you believe she will successfully recover as long as you don't doubt? Do you believe that if you believe strongly enough that will help, or that if you don't believe strongly enough that will hurt your effort to recover your marriage?

Markos,
I don't want to give the details as I don't want the negotive advice. I am tired of people coming on and telling me this marriage isn't worth saving. I don't need anymore doubts, as my day is coming, I am going the whole way to the poly and that will decide my fate. If she has come out with everything, then I don't need to keep asking, and she knows how I feel about the outcome of the poly. If she is hiding something at this point then she has decided her/our fate. She told me she was going to take the details she gave me to the poly, and told me in fear of A: failing the poly, and B: she didn't want to wait and put me through another DDay, therefore she gave it all to me. I tend to beleive what she has told me as it is ugly and as I said, I would have never known. I can live with these details, but won't live with a failed poly.

Okay. I'm not referring to YOUR cold heart, but more to your WW's cold heart and her long PRACTISE of lying as it has become a HABIT. So, my point here was not to discourage you, but to encourange you to FACE the situation - your WW has been a liar throughout your life together, and believing her words without any evidence gathered from your part or letting her meddle in between is just stupid and short-sighted. You should verify like crazy right now every single thing she has to say. Your trust to her right now is unjustified.
Markos is absolutely right.

Sem, it is this kind of approach that, I believe, has allowed your wife to commit multiple affairs over the years. She is no closer to recovery today than she was 10 years ago. She knows how to toss some crumbs out there but that is about as serious as she gets. She is a practiced liar who has been allowed to lie for your entire marriage.

Since you don't want to hear anything negative, you rule out any hard truths that might lead you to the rational conclusion that your marriage is not worth it. The truth is very negative sometimes. Avoiding the truth leads to bad decision making. People here are not going to tell you that unless the things she told you are unbelievable. And even you would agree with that perspective. If your marriage is not worth saving, wouldn't it be better to face that now?

A couple of things I would ask her on the test would be: did you have intercourse with the OM? And have you had other affairs?

Have you asked her those questions yet?

It is notable that she is not posting to the board today and I know exactly why. The posters see right through her bullsh** and she knows it. She knows she can't bullsh** a bullshi**er and her story won't wash here.

This is why I didn't want to go back to AA in 1985. They LAUGHED and mocked me when I tried to bs them. They saw right through me. And I knew it.

I had a choice. I could either RUN or I could get honest. Your wife has RUN because she has not yet decided to get honest.