It quite possibly would, if he wanted the affair to end.

Well, use this time to put spyware on his cell phone. Be advised that it's common to put a phony name under the contact list for the affair partner. In his case, a guy's name would represent her number.

That would be this:


This is a relationship built on lies and deception. You already know that they are capable and comfortable with this. They will just get better at it. WH will justify it with the fact that he did not commit to the M and just stayed home for DS.



Don't let fear run your life.

quovidis, we will be here for you when this all falls apart. I say that sincerely. You are a good person and it hurts to watch you do this, but I want you to know we will support you in doing the right thing.

I will wait for that chance.

quo honey, i am sending you hugs because you are a good person who has just volunteered to be put through a terrible second betrayal by the person you should be able to trust most.

I just want to add:



You are right. It is his decision to make, but it is your decision to allow it. If he insists on continuing his affair, you should be preparing for Plan B - not enabling his affair.

Another update. The NC letter was written and sent out by WH on Saturday. We went to the post office together where he personally completed the return signature card. Next five weeks we will be spending 24/7 together, including a 2-week family camping trip to a remote destination on another continent. Classes will resume during the second week of January and WH will be driving daily to campus instead of staying overnight at a hotel. He is contractually obligated to continue teaching in the spring semester, but he is currently actively pursuing other teaching engagements starting next summer and fall so that he will no longer be on campus beyond April. WH vows to have no contact with OW while on campus during January - April.

I need some guidance from my trusted MB supporters here on how to proceed with rebuilding our marriage. At the moment, we are remaining civil with one another. It is obvious that WH is going through a grieving/withdrawal period. I have no idea how to behave: should I be distant, supportive, loving? I am doing my best not to be a weeping mess in front of him and limit my crying fits when he can't see me. I am not sure how to fulfill his emotional needs (he completed the questionnaire and his three top needs are: admiration, affection, and conversation). The only need I am remotely capable of addressing at the moment is conversation, although it is difficult to keep it light and away from the obvious topic of OW. When sending the NC letter, WH indicated that I should be prepared for retaliation from OW (not against him, as he claims she would never do anything to harm him, but against me, whatever that means).

To those of you who have successfully executed Plan A, please share your experiences. How did you manage to keep yourself together in a situation when all I want is to kill WH for the pain he has inflicted on me and DS?

quovidis, the first step in recovering a marriage is for the affair partners to end all contact for life. That is step one. You cannot go to Step TWO until STEP ONE is done. There is nothing to tell you until that is done.

You are asking us how the alcoholic can recover while he still drinks and goes in the bar every day. That is an impossible goal. The alcoholic can never recover until he stops drinking and stays out of the bar.

Radio clip with Dr Harley telling a BH "recovery is impossible unless all contact ends" http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=652

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through he11. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDSp. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

The word of a liar is utterly meaningless.

Did he pinky-swear while he was at it? This same guy who pulled his adulterous crap over your eyes and led you and your son to believe he was faithful to you, while he was screwing around with another man's wife?

I just want to make sure we're talking about the same guy.

Quo. I am posting this to you again in case you missed it before.




An A is an addiction and your WH is addicted to the OW. He is so addicted that he actually at one point separated from his family to be with her. He is still addicted. Do not for one second fool yourself into believing that WH will be able to resist OW when he runs into her at work.

Q. You have to be the strong one here and take the lead. WH cannot break this addiction on his own.

I understand the conditions necessary for recovery, and I can't do anything about WH not being in the same building as OW next semester. He claims his new teaching schedule and changed office location will preclude any contact with OW. There is nothing further that I can do about this. I know, you guys, are reluctant to support me when this fundamental condition of changed work place is not met. I still need desperately your support. The next 5 weeks I will be spending every waking hour with him and I need to figure out how to find strength in me not to be angry, weepy, accusatory, unforgiving, etc.

He claims his actions speak louder than words: his commitment to drive daily 5 hours round trip to work instead of staying in a hotel is the demonstration of his resolve to stay in the marriage. He states that if I am unable to trust him in his decision to stay in the marriage, then I shouldn't be wanting to be with him.

How do I find strength to live with him?

I would not live with him. I would go to Plan B. And yes he can do something about working there next semester. It is not a matter of he "CAN'T", it is that he WON'T. Big difference.

What Harley recommends when a WS refuses to end contact is Plan B.


Which is untenable and won't last long. Still it doesn't solve the problem. He is still going to be free to see the OW all day.


I agree with him. You shouldn't trust his "decision to stay in the marriage," because just sticking around to see his son is meaningless. You would be crazy to trust an untrustworthy person. The only decision he has made is to stick around for a charade so he can spend Christmas with his son. Then he will go back to school and carry on his affair.

quovidis, I am on your side and, as such, I will not help you pretend there is anything here to save. There is nothing here. Your H won't end contact with his girlfriend and has told you he REFUSES to do anything to recover your marriage. He is just there for your son, period.

This is like asking us to help a victim of domestic violence learn how to be strong and live with her wife beater husband. That is not what I consider support.

What you are doing is what Dr Harley calls "Plan C" for compromise, which is the most likely to lead to divorce. You are embarking on what we call a FALSE RECOVERY.

And you are asking "how do I find the strength to live with him.." A strong person does not volunteer for a false recovery. They remove themselves from such a situation.

Nonsense. You are CHOOSING to endure a marriage where an ongoing affair, due to ongoing contact is happening.

You are CHOOSING to set up the perfect scenario for another affair - you at home, her at school

He refuses to end contact. You have CHOSEN to accept that. You have chosen to ignore Plan B, which would halt the momentum for another affair by making him face consequences.

You have not exposed to the workplace either, which would be a very good way to ensure he isnt there next semester.

This is your choice.

We are just telling you that it isnt marraigebuilders, it isnt recovery, you are volunteering for more pain than the last time.

He is turning this around to make you look like the bad guy. He is trying to manipulate you. Can you see that?

Why on this earth would you trust him? Because he said so?

Trust is something that he needs to EARN and he starts to EARN back your trust by eliminating all the conditions that made the affair possible. First and foremost is NC for life by setting up boundaries that make contact (even accidental) impossible.

I know this is hard Q. Affairs suck. The destruction extends far and wide. Don't sign up for a false recovery.

Did you read the Never Take the Word of a Wayward Thread? Because if you did you would take even a bit of notice of anything 'he states' only what he DOES.

And that part about how you 'should not want to be with him'? That is CLASSIC manipulation using the truth to mislead you.



He states that if I am unable to trust him in his decision to stay in the marriage, then I shouldn't be wanting to be with him.

= Truth - you should not want to be with him under these circumstances. Obvioulsy.

However he uses this truth to give you a number of misleading impressions.

1) Staying is all I should have to do to regain your trust
2) Not trusting me is bad of you
3) I am not going to budge on this, either blindly trust me or go.
4) I wont care if you go
5)If you 'trust' me enough I will like you better than the OW
6) I have all the power. I decide what happens
6) YOU CANT DO ANYTHING TO STOP ME
7) I am showing you that I choose the marriage. What I am not showing you is that I choose BOTH the marraige and the affair.

Not one of these things about having to settle for daily gut wrenching fear every day when he leaves for work is true. However he has you believing you are powerless, and that he is helping you out by giving you a bad deal.

We see red flags all over the place quo. This is not how someone serious about commiting to the marriage behaves. He is not commiting to the marriage. He is commiting to cake eating - he wants you and her both.

DEMAND he end contact or go into Plan B. We can't sit here and sypathise while you blog. No more than we would watch you bleed to death.

Remember quo that having two women after him gives a man quite the big head.

And having a great, loving wife offer forgiveness - well that's flattering isnt it?

He thinks he's the alpha dog here and he does not respect you right now. He will just do whatever and whoever he wants until he reaches the point where he is forced to see no one will put up with that.

Ok, I know I am rationalizing here, but the reality is WH cannot quit his job next semester (provided he doesn't face any repercussions from the administration). He is contractually bound and there is no way out of this. We rely on his income to support us (we are already underwater on our mortgage, which was one of the main reasons why we didn't move closer to campus). Even if he were able to reneg on his contract, he would not be able to secure another employment half way into an academic year. His is only option is to pursue teaching at another institution starting next summer and thereafter, which he is actively pursuing now for the next academic year. He has written and sent certified mail a NC letter to the OW. He is relocating his office to another section of the school which would provide him with much less privacy and more visibility that his current location on campus. This is all have to work with, friends. I know this is far from optimal. I just need to figure out how to survive January through April. After April he will be home miles from her.

Before January, I have several weeks with him to bond and recover our family and marriage. I am hoping to receive some guidance from you on how to do this, despite the looming prospect of his return to campus for the start of the spring semester. I am not ready for Plan B at the moment. I am hopeful to be able to execute Plan A.

You will NOT survive if you continue this way. It is your life, so it is your choice. When you are truly ready, you will do what needs to be done. Until then, I suggest that you read the site and learn all that you can and understand that what these posters has been telling you is what MB stands for.

There are MANY threads about what happens if the WS and OP still have ANY contact. Read up on those.

I also advise you to read up on Plan A and Plan B, everything that was written about the plans, and see what people are suggesting to you.

Q, I told you: YOU approve of the letter and YOU SEND IT. Why are you allowing your WH to continue to control his affair??? And you're resigned to letting him go back to be at work with the OW because you need the money??? I'm not sure what else we can help you with.