First off, Yoda (my IM), if you are reading this, please stop, this is private about someone else.

Okay, I am trying to offer some support for my friend and need some vets advice. I am still a newbie, only 5 months out from D Day, and this is all a bit overwhelming for me given I am still dealing with my own triggers. Her sitch is also very different to mine (ha, her husband is on the same continent!)

My friend (I'll call her Sally) has been telling me of marital problems for some time now. Both her and H feel EN's not being met by the other. Married about 10 years, highschool sweethearts, lived together prior to marriage, now have 2 kids (6 and 2).

Yesterday Sally told me her H had become Facebook friends with an old ex-girlfriend.

A couple of weeks ago he went to the funeral for his ex's father which was out of town.

Sally has said to H that she does not agree with him being FB friends with her and thought it was weird he went to the funeral when they have not had contact for at least 15 years.

This week H told Sally he was changing his mobile number because the ex was sending him texts that were "inappropriate" but he would not elaborate further. He said the ex "wanted him" but he was not interested. H says the ex then sent his mother a text but would again not reveal what it said. Sally contacted MIL, who would not tell her what text said, just that it was "upsetting". H has since defriended ex on FB and changed mobile number. He says ex is just manipulative and a bit psycho.

Ex's H then sent Sally a friend request. Sally declined and blocked him, believing it to be the ex acting from his account.

I told Sally yesterday if I was her I would start snooping and Plan A'ing madly, but she is in denial. Absolute shock. She desperately wants to believe H that ex is just a psycho.

Today Sally rang me in panic, she got a PM from H's ex pretty much just badmouthing her. Sally has been receiving prank calls all day. Sally rang her H telling him about the PM, she told him not to contact ex as than she would have his new number, but that she wanted to contact her. Five minutes after this call Sally got another PM from ex calling her a "cry baby" so clearly H did contact ex against Sally's wishes.

H has now finished work early and come home, and is monitoring Sally's access to the lap top, watching her closely. Sally is still getting PM's from ex. It sounds to me as though he is in damage control, but as I am still dealing with my own sitch I wanted clearance from the vets that the advice I am giving is ok. I don't want to give her wrong advice and she is texting me for support.

Pretty much I told Sally to snoop (GPS, keylogger and possible access to his mobile), and Plan A until more evidence. She is trying to find out ex's husband contact details as well. I have told her to not communicate the PM's to her H, keep her cards close to her chest at this stage. And not to contact H's ex at this stage, until she has more idea on what is going on.

I have told her she is an amazing wife, mother, woman and friend. No matter what, H's ex' behaviour shows she is none of these things.

I am so hoping I am wrong. I hope I am just being suspicious given my own sitch.

Advice welcome.

I'm no vet, but snooping and keeping a keen eye on his actions is very appropriate in this situation. Also, does this H's ex have a husband on her own, family? These PMs are enough evidence to contact her husband and tell him what his wife's been up to. Clearly, he has no idea, and clearly - communicating her ex that way you describe IS inappropriate to a married woman. Psycho or no psycho - she is a threat to your friends marriage.

I would tell Sally to contact ex's H. She needs to talk to him personally to find out what his story is.

I suspect they took an EA to a PA (aka 'funeral') and her H found out and is now hunting bear.

Only if she wants to find out, of course. It sounds like she is willing to live in denial in order to believe her husband. That frequently happens when the wayward gets to the betrayed spouse first and successfully gaslights her.

Yep, this went PA at the "funeral".

Also, add a VAR in his car.

AM

The 'psychos' husband needs to be contacted. (but without your friend telling her husband)

If he knows nothing, she needs to forward him any messages/texts and tell him to story as she knows it.

But I suspect that he knows full well about an A between the two and can fill your friend in on the details.

Caracal, you were bang on with your approach. Have confidence in your advice. Does your friend know all about your own sitch? It may help her to hear about it if she doesn't. Let her know that you hope that her H is not having an A, but you would like her to KNOW what is going on with her own life. That you will be there for her either way.

Tell her that you understand her fear, and the wish that her H be truthful. Tell her about MB. That we will help guide her through her snooping and either way, we will help her.

I too think that you need to tell her that she needs to speak to Ex's H. I feel so badly for your friend.

She needs to call up the ex's husband. He is probably trying to inform her of the affair.

Caracal, you are suspicious because you are EXPERIENCED and AWARE. Your suspicions are very valid!

Yes your friend needs to go recon mode.

ASAP. Key logger, VAR hidden in the home and WH car, GPS real time for the car.

But even before she does those things this BW needs to call and directly speak with the OWH.

Thanks for all the responses. It is reassuring that I have learned so much, I told Sally yesterday to focus on finding ex's H contact details to ensure OW can't intercept any message. She seems to want to contact him, I have talked her out of confronting OW at this time which she was wanting to do. I will be in touch with her today and will suggest MB for support.

On phone but just wanted to say thanks for my friend and me.

Im sure you will be busy for a while supporting your poor friend and helping her snoop. If the denial fog comes down over her again - remind her of the above.

Particulary the words 'not elaborate' 'not reveal' and 'against her wishes' - I guarantee you that however desperate she is to believe the best - she knows for a fact that secrets are being kept and her wishes totally ignored.

And if he is so cool with secrets, why is he now watching Sally like a hawk?

You're right Indie. My friend is so desperate to believe, as most of us BS are. But she is also one smart cookie, who is already saying things like she wants her "eyes to be wide open". She wants the truth, and she knows that his relationship with ex has been kept a secret from her. If it was entirley innocent, why?

Hmmm, I wondered that. And he also asked Sally if she had been talking with me (they both know my sitch, they were exposure targets). Sally is smart enough to keep her cards close to her chest, she said no.

I have given Sally flexyspy.com to look into, and also told her about MB and us all here.

Sally, I hope you are reading this. Feel free to start your own thread and get support and advice. These people can help with snooping and help you get a plan going on what you need to do to work through all of this. You are already starting to thrash out a plan, you are in control of your choices and actions. Remember, act, don't react. Snoop, and meanwhile stay calm and show the best of yourself to husband (read up on Plan A on here). That will confuse him and show him what he might be risking. Don't let him suspect you are snooping. And do everything you can to find out ex's husband contact details. He has a right to know the truth just as you do. He may already know and be able to shed more light on what is going on.

And Sally... no matter what, affair or no affair, I will be there to listen. I know how confusing any secret in a marriage is, let alone suspecting your husband of an affair. During and after your search for the truth, whatever that is, I will listen to the questions and thoughts that pop into your head, I will give advice and an opinion if you ask, I will gladly give my shoulder to cry on (and likely cry on yours as well!), I will sit with you if all you want to do is sob or scream, and I will try my best to be the friend you have been to me.

Oh, and I am sorry for calling you Sally but it was the first that popped into my head and it rhymed! Feel free to be creative if you want to join.

AND, here is a ...

Yeah 'Sally' pick a name and we will do what we can.

I remember when I was snooping on my husband, hoping I wouldnt find anything, how coming here to vent was such a relief.

Then when things moved on, I got step by step support from the best when the world was crashing down around my ears.

We hope things work out for you, hon ((((((((hugs))))))))))

Sally, whether you decide to post or not(I really hope you do), you have a great friend in Caracal. She will help you as no other of us can. She is a great friend to you for this, and she cares about you.

There are many stories like yours out here, and we are ready to help you. Welcome.

Geez Scotland, you had me welling up!

Okay, so Sally hasn't joined us but I am pretty sure she is reading, reading, reading, and snooping, snooping, snooping. Hang in there Sally! Meanwhile I will keep relaying any advice.

Sally is still getting prank calls, last night for a couple of hours. Sally is realising that at the least this was an emotional affair. She wants to find out the truth and wants to talk to OW's husband. She also wants to stop A in its tracks, and her H has been talking about closing down FB account etc to make her feel safe.

Today we struck gold, and have found the OW's BH contact details, including work mobile, office address and work email. Sally wants to contact him on Friday (the delay is due to wanting to use my phone so the number does not show in her account that H has access to).

Sally has as evidence her H disclosing inappropriate facebook messages and texts from OW (Sally does not have these texts or messages, on H's work mobile and he has since changed numbers). Sally has kept the FB messages she got from OW, these are derogatory towards Sally but no other information. And there is OW's BH trying to friend her on FB which may be him trying to contact her with information or OW just being psycho.

Any advice for Sally on how to approach this exposure to OW's H would be greatly appreciated.

Sally needs to change the number to the home phone to stop the hang up calls.

I hate not being on my computer for this, because I don't have all of my links. Sally(she'll probably need to keep the name soon since we all will be calling her that hehehe), you are doing the right thing by telling OWH, and he may even have some evidence that you don't. I would tell him, "OWH, it pains me to inform you that your wife is having an affair with my husband, SALLYH. I have (list evidence here). I want to work on saving my marriage, but can't do that while WH and OW continue contact. I will do what I can on my side to ensure there is NC, and I will contact you regarding any future contact. I can be reached by(either phone, or email). "

It is a hard thing to do, but it is the right thing to do. Afterall, if OWH knew about an affair, you would wish to know, right? Stay strong and know that we will be here for you when you are ready.

Sally exposed to OW BH today.

The s@#t has hit the fan.

OW's BH was not trying to FB friend her, so it must be the OW using his account. Sally told her concerns about affair, she handled it so well, I feel so proud of her and she feels good about the exposure. OW's BH was also concerned about the relationship, but did not know the details that Sally's WH has told her.

OW's BH was furious, threatening to kill WH, I think Sally's WH has had threatening phone calls already and is in a panic. Sally and OW's BH agreed to update each other if there was any further contact between the waywards. OW's BH immediately rang his WW. Sally knows this as her WH then rang her to say he had been contacted by OW, abusing him. All is not well in the land of the waywards

I am concerned that Sally is now being trickle truthed. WH has told her that rather than just the two times he claims to have met OW, it is now maybe four. Including a lunch together where they went to another town.

Sally has told WH that the lies are further damaging and hurting her. She has demanded the truth. WH is running scared and trying desperately to spin it, but I can so easily see through this. With time I know Sally will too. But she wants to believe.

I am writing this so Sally can't forget or deny what was said today. Sally, you asked WH if he had sex with OW. He said "yes". I could see your shock, horror and pain. Our first instinct is to deny what is smacking us in the face, ripping apart all that we trusted and valued. You asked if he used a condom. His answer was "yes, one night". You asked if he was lying to you. Than you threatened that if it was sexual, the marriage was over. WH changed his story when faced with this. No, he only told you he had sex with her because he thought this was what you wanted to hear. These words gave you some relief from the agony, you backed off.

He is now in damage control, trying to minimise whatever happened because he is now faced with what he might lose. You. His loyal, loving and beautiful wife. His gorgeous kids. His home. His family. A lot of friends. Not to metion a lot of other peoples respect.

I don't want you to feel bad about your reaction, you have done so brilliantly today! You just don't want to believe he could do this to you, your children, your marriage, your family. You have trusted this man for so long it is a reflex to believe that he would never hurt you in this way. I know Sally, I have been there as have many others reading this.

But denial will not help you in dealing with this affair and I never want to see you in this situation again. At this very time WH is the last person you can trust to tell you the truth. Why would any innocent husband LIE ABOUT HAVING SEX WITH ANOTHER WOMAN AS A WAY MAKE HIS WIFE FEEL BETTER? Why would he keep lunches, etc secret from you? What man would continue a secret relationship with another woman for months, and not have it go physical?

You know the truth Sally. Your husband is having an affair. He is keeping secrets from you. And he is still lying to you. Read the books I borrowed you (SAA first, later HNHN).

There is a plan to follow in Surviving an Affair. You need to follow a plan to give yourself time to decide. WH has no plan. You do. Gather evidence, and bust up the affair (regardless if you rebuild the marriage or not, do NOT let them have a chance to live "happily ever after" )

And just so you can't escape the key points of WH's conversation when in a panic today.

Any advice for how to escape trickle truth?

Sally has limited access to money, especially given just before Christmas. Flexispy too expensive. Polygraphs cost at about $900 here. She is leaning towards this though, she wants the truth.

She already has access to WH's FB account. He has already defriended OW.

We suspect the majority of the contact may have happened from WH's office phone and computer. And possibly in person (they are only a 2 hour drive from each other).

I am encouraging Sally to do full exposure on Monday (she is away for weekend with WH and kids). Sally is reluctant about this, I have asked her to read up on it before making any decision. Sally does agree WH's parents need to be informed.
I think there is a lot of friction in affair land (I have read the texts Sally is getting from OW ) but I don't want to see this affair start up again down the track or just go underground now. IMO the affair was both emotional and physical. I could be wrong, but I think it may have been going on for a while and plans to leave BS's were discussed. At the moment, each affair partner is too busy trying to blame the other.

Should Sally be asking for NC letter and EP's etc or should she still be snooping?