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I'm a health care professional. Research the laws in your state, as well as the statement of ethics by whatever state board monitors counselors. I'm pretty sure that having sexual affairs with married women you are pretending to "counsel" is severely frowned-on SOMEWHERE, if not outright banned!!!! tl
Last edited by thndrnltng; 12/21/11 04:43 PM.
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SMM, you need to meet with your church leadership, without any forewarning to, or participation by, the OM.
Take your evidence of the impropriety of the OM's actions.
Tell them -- and also hand them a letter telling them, so that everyone knows it's documented -- that you regard it as imperative & non-negotiable that the following steps occur:
(1) That OM be dismissed from any position of responsibility in the church. (2) That the congregation be notified as to the (true) reason for this dismisal.
Now, they may see things the right way and act accordingly & with due speed.
Or, be prepared for the possibility that they may resist. I can tell you from personal experience that lots of church leaders are, even if they have the best of intentions, ignorant of the addictive nature of affairs, of the need for absolute no-contact between affair partners in order for the affairs to end. Some of them may be so focused on a (perceived) biblical imperative for forgiveness among the flock that their tendency may be to encourage everyone involved to just work this all out & say "I'm sorry" and admit wrong all around & just stay on together as examples of forgiveness/repentance, etc. (And regrettably, there are occasionally a few, more venal leaders who might have the first reaction of fearing the "PR" appearances and fearing losing members from the church if word gets out re: what's been going on, and so those types will try to keep a lid on facts gettting our & may "counsel" against exposure, under guise of "not causing unnecessary harm.")
If they don't "get it", don't you buy any of their excuses for not acting per (1) and (2) above. There are certain ways affairs need to end. Exposure is usually crucial. You must be prepared to make clear to the leadership that the bigger danger for them would be if they try to sweep this under the rug. In that case, they'll be risking a repeat offense occurring & of which they'll have had forewarning, thanks to you.
So be prepared to stand your ground and make clear to them that if they do not take appropriate measures to remove this man from your church, you most certainly will be prepared to make a full public accounting to the congregation, which deserves to know that they have in their midst someone who is in a position of special trust as an authorized lay-counselor, and who is obviously abusing that trust. (Again, you may not need to take this tack, because they might already "get it". But be prepared.) Also: No matter what, do NOT give your wife or the OM any warning whatsoever in advance that you plan to expose. If you tip them off, it will give them a chance to spin their stories so that you'll be less likely to be believed, and it will remove the "shock" impact of exposure.
Lawsuit, schmoot! He can't successfully sue you for telling the truth. Heck, if you've got copies of his & her e-mails, it won't even be your words that will indict him. It'll be his own words. Throw open the curtain, shed the light of truth on this sordid affair, and thereby send OM scurrying for cover & give yourself a fighting chance to save your marriage.
P.S. -- By the way, I'm speaking to you as a man who got into an affair 3 years ago, with a fellow member of my church's music team. Fortunately, it lasted less than 3 months, and my wife & I managed to save our marriage. But unfortunately, I've seen this sort of thing from the inside. I'd not be surprised if your wife came onto him pretty hard, but that's immaterial as far as the steps you must take, and it's immaterial as far as his future with that church is concerned (i.e., there must be no such future). If he remains at the church in any capacity, then you & your wife will need to leave. In fact, you may find the "trigger" aspect of being there so damaging to your prospects for recovery that you & your wife will need to leave that church anyway, even if OM is also sent packing. No matter. You can find another church. You've only got one marriage to save right now, and that's the more important consideration.
P.S. -- I think you should also let the youth home's management know what he's been up to. If this guy is a predatory type (some APs are), then he could be placing female youth there at risk. They need to know. This is a moral imperative.
Me: FWH, 50 My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold DD23, DS19 EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09 Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009 Married 25 years & counting. Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband. "I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol "Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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I want to hit them before christmas, so they'll have to face family. Following MelodyLane's outline, I'm thinking: 1. Prepare my exposure letters today. I'll post them here. 2. Get up at 5 AM tomorrow. My wife will be asleep, hopefully I won't wake her. OM will not get home from work until 7 AM. 3. Message FB friends for OM. He is very private and only has a few so I'll hit all of them. 4. Message FB friends from WW. She has over a hundred, so I'll can be a little selective, but I'll try to hit everyone she sees or cares about. 5. Messageor email anyone not on FB, as well as my own family. I have to come clean too. 6. Email the counseling pastor at the church. Offer to meet him in person to discuss the issue. 7. Do not contact his work, at least for now. It's a juvenile detention center so he won't be working with couples, as far as I can tell they are hopeless cases and he can't harm them any further. This avoids the legal question and gives him a good reason not to escalate further. 8. Wake up the boys (age 9 and 13) and tell them we're going out to donuts. Explain the situation to them gently and allow them to ask questions to their satisfaction. Encourage them to talk to mommy about this if they want to. I think this will be the single most devastating an effective thing for her. 9. Come home and face the fireworks calmly. Wait a bit. When someone contacts her, and she then asks me, give her a list of everyone I contacted. 10. Try to contact his parents. I have their address and phone number, but not their email or facebook. I can try calling but he's likely to answer the phone. I could send a letter but he may check mail for a few days. He usually goes to sleep in the late afternoon before work, I could call then, but I doubt he'll sleep at all that day. I could ask my mother in law to call them, he may not recognize her voice and she may get through. I could even go over to his house and knock on his door. The house is partially in his name though so he'd undoubtedly meet me and order me off the property. I could wait in the street until his mother leaves for work, but I don't know her schedule. Whatever, I can keep trying this and that until I get through. Sooner or later he has to sleep or go to work. Maybe if I'm lucky OM and WW will rush out to meet each other to discuss the emergency, giving me free access. 11. After things cool down initiate Plan A. First confess my own transgressions and ask her forgiveness for my part in this (but not for exposure). Second, tell her I love her and want to stay in the marriage and work on it, but I REQUIRE the following: (1) End all contact with the OM for life. Likewise I will end all contact with the 'swinger' couple we befriended. (2) No more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle. No more going out to lunch with anyone unless she clears it with me in advance and I know where she is and who she is with. I will followup with who she claims she was with. Our children will also be watching. I will submit to the same rules. Whenever I am at work I will remain available on IM so she knows I'm there, and will be accountable via my boss that I am present and accounted for. (I will tell him, and have them exchange contact info) (3) Complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc. I will install a keylogger (Spectorsoft) on the family computer and we will BOTH consent and submit to monitoring. If she does not consent, she is free to not use the computer. Point out that the keylogger will also be a valuable tool for the kids computer use. I cannot install a keylogger on my company-issued laptop. However I will agree to only use it at work, and to confess the situation to my boss so he can keep an eye on me. The company monitors all traffic so I can't get away with much of anything at work anyway - no naughty websites. I will avoid using the computer at home except for necessary company business, will do so only in the open, only while logged into VPN (company network), and she is free at any time to walk over and demand to see what I am working on, inspect the browser history, etc, no questions asked. For all personal business I will use the family computer. Insist that she either open her private gmail/gtalk account, or CLOSE it while I watch. (4) No more opposite sex friendships for either of us. (5) Complete honesty about her affair and the open marriage. We talk about everything that happened, we can each review each others email and chat history and freely ask questions to our satisfaction. (6) Commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair. (7) Encourage her to write a dear john letter to OM, terminating the relationship permanently, and let me read it before she sends it. This will be the ONLY communication allowed. (8) I REQUEST that we jointly and enthusiastically agree on a church and start attending again. We will be open about our past. If the church is stuck up and rejects us, we will keep looking until we find a body that will accept us with forgiveness and sincerity. We will join a home study group again. If she chooses not to go to church with me and the kids I will accept that, but I must assume at that point that she is turning her back on her faith and is not a beleiver. Nonetheless I remain committed to restoring our marriage, and commmitted to returning to God. (Thank you MelodyLane, the outline is fantastic.)
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SMM, you need to meet with your church leadership, without any forewarning to, or participation by, the OM. Shouldn't this be done at the same time as public exposure? Otherwise they will contact OM and he will be warned, and the FB exposure will be less effective? P.S. -- I think you should also let the youth home's management know what he's been up to. If this guy is a predatory type (some APs are), then he could be placing female youth there at risk. They need to know. This is a moral imperative. Hmm very good point. That at least doesn't have to be immediate (i.e. same day). I would prefer to get legal advice on how to do this safely, but don't want to delay general exposure with the holiday looming.
Last edited by SavingMyMarriage; 12/21/11 06:27 PM.
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Good plan!! I have a couple of minor suggestions.
1. what if your wife wakes up? Where will she go when she gets up? Will she be leaving? You aren't going to get too far if she is in the house when you do this.
2. I would put off exposure to your wife's fb friends and focus on calling some very select family and friends. call them personally instead
3. While I agree with you facebook exposure of OM, I would CALL the pastor first thing in the morning and tell him what has happened. You want that all to hit that bast*rd like a tsunami.
4. DO NOT CONFESS YOUR OWN SINS IN THIS EXPOSURE! The purpose here is to kill your wife's affair, don't muddy the waters by hanging out your dirty laundry. When you speak to the pastor tell him that you stupidly AGREED to engage in a threesome at the urging of the OM and are now SICK about it. You did this thinking it would save your marriage becuase OM and your wife were pushing for an "open marriage" to save your marriage. <----put it that way!
5. Either personally speak to the OM's parents or drive to his house to tell them. Tell them about the affair and ask them to use their influence to persuade the OM to leave your wife alone. Having your MIL call them and perhaps even the OM is a GREAT IDEA!
6. Install the keylogger on your home computer WITHOUT TELLING HER. If she knows it is there, she will know to go around it. YOU SHOULD NOT EVER BE OPEN ABOUT THE KEYLOGGER.
7. "I will avoid using the computer at home except for necessary company business, will do so only in the open, only while logged into VPN (company network), and she is free at any time to walk over and demand to see what I am working on, inspect the browser history, etc, no questions asked. For all personal business I will use the family computer."
I would drop #7 and this offer to put a key logger on your computer. Sure she is free to inspect everything, but your adultery stemmed from a silly idea to save your own marriage ["open marriage"] and not from an addiction. Hers is from an addiction and needs to be treated differently. They are both bad, but they are not the same.
Your plan is great!!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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SYM, I know it is tempting to want to confess your own sins in your exposures in a tit for tat, but don't do that. The reason is because you are doing this to kill her affair. You are not having an affair and although, you DID have an affair, that is not the issue at hand. Confessing all your dirty laundry in an exposure is just going to make people think you are a kook.
And if someone asks what your role in all this was, you tell them the truth, you committed adultery in a 3 some at the request of OM and your WW becasue you were stupidly convinced this would be good for your marriage. BE truthful, but put THEM in the position of that finger pointing. If you bring it up, it just looks like the coo-coo clock review.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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And if someone asks what your role in all this was, you tell them the truth, you committed adultery in a 3 some at the request of OM and your WW becasue you were stupidly convinced this would be good for your marriage. Just for the record, it wasn't quite like that. The 3some never happened, and a few weeks later they were badgering me to just go find someone and even the score, since they had been together nearly a dozen times. So finally I did (once), to shut them up and satisfy my curiosity. I was immediately sorry -- because of guilt, because it wasn't fun at all and I realized it was not what I wanted, and because I realized I'd hurt my wife despite her "encouragment". She consented out of obligation. What I really wanted and missed was intimacy with my wife, and fixing my marriage was the only way I'd ever get that.
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Thanks for the advice, Melody Lane. I had just finished my exposure letters and logged on to post them. I'll rewrite them following your advice not to discuss my own sins while exposing. Plenty of time for that I guess.
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And if someone asks what your role in all this was, you tell them the truth, you committed adultery in a 3 some at the request of OM and your WW becasue you were stupidly convinced this would be good for your marriage. Just for the record, it wasn't quite like that. The 3some never happened, and a few weeks later they were badgering me to just go find someone and even the score, since they had been together nearly a dozen times. So finally I did (once), to shut them up and satisfy my curiosity. I was immediately sorry -- because of guilt, because it wasn't fun at all and I realized it was not what I wanted, and because I realized I'd hurt my wife despite her "encouragment". She consented out of obligation. What I really wanted and missed was intimacy with my wife, and fixing my marriage was the only way I'd ever get that. Just change the details to suit your situation. Just as long as you get the idea here. The goal is to bust up her affair, not to confess all your past and present sins.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Just for the record, it wasn't quite like that. The 3some never happened, and a few weeks later they were badgering me to just go find someone and even the score, since they had been together nearly a dozen times. So finally I did (once), to shut them up and satisfy my curiosity. So, who was the woman you had sex with? And what curiosity did you have?
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
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FRIENDS & FAMILY LETTER (draft)
Dear friends and family,
I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the lives of WW and myself. I have discovered that WW has been carrying on an affair with a man named OM since August.
Sadly, WW is unwilling to end the affair with OM. I love her very much and want our marriage to recover. I also fear for her soul if she persists in this.
As our friends and family, I am asking that you use your influence with WW to persuade her to end her affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if she would only end the affair. Please support her and me in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.
I would very much appreciate your support and prayers. (If I asked you to pray for us before, now you know why.)
Warmest regards, BH
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OM FACEBOOK LETTER (draft)
Dear friend of OM:
It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of his friends should know the kind of person he really is. OM has been involved in an affair with my wife, WW, since August. I was shocked to discover this in November and demanded it end immediately, but they have continued to this day.
I believe that his friends should know this, so you can protect your marriage from him. My wife and I have 2 young sons and this affair has almost wrecked our marriage.
I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.
I would appreciate it if someone would notify his parents and ask them to call me at ###-###-####. You may also call me if you have any questions.
Thank you, BH
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I will plan to call the pastor instead, but here's the draft I wrote:
CHURCH STAFF LETTER (draft)
<Pastor>, and <Church> Staff:
I am grieved to have to write this letter to you.
OM and my wife, WW, have been involved in an extramarital affair since August.
OM has been involved in the counseling ministry at <Church>. Therefore I feel it is urgent, for the protection of those seeking counseling, and for the reputation of the church, that he be removed from this ministry immediately.
Leading up to this, OM was not counseling my wife in an official capacity on behalf of the church. She did however know that he was a counselor, and asked him for marriage advice as a friend on various occasions starting in December 2010. I was aware of their friendship and lunch meetings, but he was my best friend and I completely trusted them both.
I learned of this affair in November and demanded it stop immediately, but they have continued to this day.
I love my wife dearly and want to restore our marriage. I cannot do that until this affair is ended.
Please call me at ###-###-#### and we can meet in person.
If OM wishes to challenge this, I can provide proof of these facts.
Sincerely, BH
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I will plan to call the pastor instead, but here's the draft I wrote:
CHURCH STAFF LETTER (draft)
<Pastor>, and <Church> Staff:
I am grieved to have to write this letter to you.
OM and my wife, WW, have been involved in an extramarital affair since August.
OM has been involved in the counseling ministry at <Church>. Therefore I feel it is urgent, for the protection of those seeking counseling, and for the reputation of the church, that he be removed from this ministry immediately.
Leading up to this, OM was not counseling my wife in an official capacity on behalf of the church. She did however know that he was a counselor, and asked him for marriage advice as a friend on various occasions starting in December 2010. I was aware of their friendship and lunch meetings, but he was my best friend and I completely trusted them both.
I learned of this affair in November and demanded it stop immediately, but they have continued to this day.
I love my wife dearly and want to restore our marriage. I cannot do that until this affair is ended.
Please call me at ###-###-#### and we can meet in person.
If OM wishes to challenge this, I can provide proof of these facts.
Sincerely, BH This is a GREAT LETTER and I would send it tomorrow in addition to calling the pastor and letting him know what has transpired and that you sent this letter.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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So, who was the woman you had sex with? And what curiosity did you have? During the "open marriage" phase we looked for some other couples in open relationships, sort of an exploratory move. We finally met one couple (not married) and made friends with them. We both liked them and met them several time for activities. We also talked with them about OM, and they thought he was a lowlife because he was a sneaky cheater while they were honorably consensual. One night the four of us were at their house, they made no secret they wanted to take it further. I had planned not to, but WW said go ahead, and even encouraged me, and... I did. My curiosity? I had only ever been with my wife, while she had been with dozens of people before she met me, and was also married once before. (Divorced for having cheated on her previous husband, though she didn't tell me that until AFTER we were married.) Not really an evening of the score, but I always wondered if it would be "different" with someone else. That, and I wondered if it would be more exciting and more fun to do something really naughty. And I guess I wondered if I could really go through with it. And if I'm honest, having seen that sort of behavior in porn made me curious as well. Ugh. Yeah I've got a real history of making good choices.
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SMM, BE SURE and tell the pastor all of this. He needs to understand the full story.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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1. what if your wife wakes up? Where will she go when she gets up? Will she be leaving? You aren't going to get too far if she is in the house when you do this. She sleeps in, unless a noise wakes her up. I should know within 10-15 minutes if she's been disturbed, and can just postpone one day if necessary. Otherwise she'll sleep for an extra couple of hours. Also if I tell her the night before that I might take the boys out to breakfast, she'll be expecting a little noise when I get them up. 2. I would put off exposure to your wife's fb friends and focus on calling some very select family and friends. call them personally instead This would be tricky, since I don't have a cellphone and would have to use the family phone while she is present. Very awkward, unless she runs off to see him.
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Oh man, just went through her FB friends. That is a lot of friends. Feels like I'm stabbing her in the back. This is going to be really hard.
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Oh man, just went through her FB friends. That is a lot of friends. Feels like I'm stabbing her in the back. This is going to be really hard. I would skip the facebook exposures for your WIFE. Just call her parents and close family when you are able. Even if you have to drive to another phone to do it, I would do it that way. Do the facebook exposures for the OM for sure, though! When you start blowing up the OM's life with letters, I would expect him to try frantically to get ahold of your wife. How will he get ahold of her? Think of ways to block this so he doesn't rile her up and cause interference. They will go CRAZY and you can't allow them to manipulate you into stopping. Can you unplug your phone so he doesn't call your house?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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