Mike, This is (IMO) a good thing. One thing that FWW's dont really get to do early on is deal with their emotions sufficiently because they are so focused on helping us and we don't make it easy because of our roller-coaster.

Think about it, in a sense, we don't really allow them to fully settle and think about what they've done because we are pushing so hard after DDay. once we get ourselves under control with the digs and outbursts, they have more time to think and contemplate the fullness of what they've done.

Once I got myself under control, I began to get this from my W as well. she became very emotional and sad. When I asked why now after so long, she said she had to put herself aside in order to help me.
I believe it's a good thing, because it means you are entering into a new phase of recovery where she is opening up and coming to grips with the immensity of what she's done.

It's an opportunity for you both to enter into a new level of closeness as you are there for her as she mourns, not her AP, but what she's done to her marriage

cv

I'll take that. Anytime she opens up and says anything or emotes anything, I'll take it.

Its that bottling up that I find alarming. Her friend in the know of the thing said the same thing months back, that she sits back and takes things from her mother, brother, and I guess from me to some degree.

I told her last night that I like her opening up and I cant get enough of it. I think you are right on when maybe enough time as elapsed where she can release some of that emotion despite 7 months of begging her to tell me stuff.

And I DID feel a closeness.

What she's done is given you a gift. A door. She has opened the crack ever so slightly... My W made a point to never show she was hurting during the A and when she was bottling it up, it drove me nuts. I equated it with Wh*^e behavior, when in fact it was something totally different.

Honestly, I almost missed what it was. It was a gift to me. An opportunity to step in and be there for her as she mourned the same loss of a relationship that I was mourning. I am glad you saw it. Use it as a way of strengthening yourselves, knitting the bond tighter.

CV

Mike,

Just wanted to chime in here when I saw CVs response to your post, because over the weekend, W seemed to have a final 'purging' of alot of emotions/thoughts/feelings (Not uncommon for her around NYE as she reflects...I may post some of her comments later...), but one thing that stood out to me:

W thanked me for being so gentle with her and allowing her to mourn -- not for the OM -- but for what she had done to me, the kids, our marriage....and ultimately herself.

Be well.

Thats the way I felt too.

I also think her mother contributed to the emotional release. I have mentioned in the past, my brother in law is going thru marital issues of his own. And, like his sister's, his issues are mostly self inflicted. And, like so many others, his children are taking the brunt of his independent behavior. (His wife is no picnic, but he has declined any counseling over the years and for 6-7 years he has all but left his family.)

My MIL called over the weekend and as another fairly stoic person like her daughter, her crying on the phone was pretty much unexpected. She is really beside herself in grief over both her childrens failures. And, I believe rightly so, she takes much of the blame for them.

However, her enabling and poor parenting continues into her 70s. She flew her miserable son who is unemployed and treats everyone like junk to see her for a few days last month. He told his 2 kids only the day before that hes going. She said claimed that she had a credit from the airlines that was expiring on 12/31. Whatever. This guy deserves a long weekend by the pool while his kids suffer from his independent behavior like I need a hole in the head. Anyway, poor parenting decisions continue for my MIL and FIL.

Maybe theres a feeling of being trapped by genetics? That lousy decisions and low barriers she had were unavoidable? That whatever OM gave to her to make her stay were things that most women would see through? Dont know.

Her regret is immeasurable. The loss of time, the loss of trust, the damage to our kids, the loss of my happiness and the loss of any dignity are probably the reason for the outpouring the other night.

Do you see, MSS, in your own words the value of your being the hero, to break the cycle of demonstrated marital failures that are there as examples for your children? EAOTP, right?

BTW: I was hoping HFD would stop by to relate his FWW's expressed pain as a validation of the pool of cess that your FWW is going to wade through for a while.

Yes.

There has been some really great things submitted to my thread and others' in the last couple of weeks. No doubt.

I point to CV post the other night about the "gift" she gave me. That hit me hard. Hard to look at it as a gift but our marriage has never been better and thats real result of her gift.

He also mentioned doors closing and opening and THAT was a great way to look at this too.

I see a softer woman Im living with today that surely is better than what was.

Mike,

As I stated before, my W was VERY emotional come NYE as well, very reflective�and sad, depressed, remorseful (she says she's 'embarrased, disappointed in herself' alot). All the A talk, OM talk has died down quite a bit, if at all, so that�s why I say this seemed like a final purging � and probably related to her finally leaving her workplace (12/30/11) where she met the OM. Anyway, she vented the following:

� I chose some beneath you�someone �disposable�.
� You�d think someone (OM) with that much self-proclaimed experience would be a better partner � not even close, he�s a very immature and selfish man.
� I have no desire for contact with OM�when I heard his voice in Nov. (after I contacted him, then he called W in work), I was repulsed�he sounded flustered, weak and feeble.
� I do not love OM�I felt at one point in the fog that I had to because of what I did
� OM was a stupid, racist man�what kind of man is he really? He had his mommy call you�he didn�t even have the balls to call you and he bugged ME in work�what did he think after screwing around with a guy�s wife? He�s a coward�he could�ve called you back and apologized for almost destroying your family. He used me, but I used him too�but yes, I realize he is a bad man.
� OM hid the truth about giving me an STD from his family�even minimized/diminished my health issues when I informed him of the HPV�OM even questioned if it was you that gave it to me (insinuating you were screwing around)
� I went to OM for 1 need I wanted�and the OM wasn�t even good at that
� I knew it was a bad, temporary fix
� OM could�ve been anyone�I was so screwed up
� OM would say to me �I don�t stand a chance compared to your husband��and he didn�t, there was no competition�but OM still engaged in that with me, which speaks volumes about his character � and mine�
� What did YOU ever do to the OM? Nothing. Yet he was willing to actively work to destroy your family.
� He didn�t want to be held accountable about the STD�wouldn�t tell his mommy�wanted no �blood on his hands�, no consequences for his actions.


� I didn�t show care for you or protect you or our marriage
� I know you�ve dealt with a lot of resentment because I maintained contact so long after the PA was over�it was hard to come to terms that I did an act like that, just an act, because doing that with no love, deep emotion makes me a tramp. I was trying to make the best of a bad situation where I did wrong�and there was no easy answer.
� I am insecure that you will now leave me at some point
� It was over, really (the PA) before you even realize, very early on. It was simply the �can�t we just be friends?� that I allowed to linger for months
� This tragedy has provided me with so much clarity about who I need to be with and where I�m supposed to be
� I found through all of this what love is and is supposed to be and I love you, I adore you�THAT was the furthest thing from love, care, respect
� You saved me�I was not strong enough to end it on my own�This marriage was saved by you on March 9 when you exposed�I am so proud, so grateful for your actions, for your love and protection in saving me and this family
� You may have put cracks in our previous marriage, but I picked it up and smashed it to pieces with what I did. It�s my mission for the rest of my life to do what I need to in order to repair us.


I suspect that with W leaving the job, one of the final 'remnant' of that time, and moving forward in working MB principles.....this will probably be the last conversation we have mentioning the OM...he needs to be dead to us both now.

Thank you.

This is an important thing to remember. The callousness from the A is being stripped away like bad paint and she is laid bare. Not the same woman she was.

cv

Another thread mentioned one of our favorite topics: movies or tv shows that feature adultery as a theme.

I thought about this a few weeks back but forgot to mention it. My all time favorite movie is with Michael Douglas and Tobey Maguire called Wonder Boys. Something about Douglas' character chimed with me and its overall tone is something I really made me think. I havent seen it in a while when I remember one of the central themes is Douglas' sexual relationship with his married boss and her subsequent pregnancy. (It was his multiple failed marriages, probably due to his affairs, that may have provided the approval in his mind.)

I found something interesting in a character who carried on an adulterous affair? Are you kidding me?

Am I to lament the loss of a movie that meant something to me at one time? Or, do I lament our society's approval of such entertainment? Afterall (spoiler alert) he does end up happy with his AP and their child.

We probably could list 100s of shows and movies who treat cheating on spouses with such frivality. And, prior to 5/8/11, I probably found them funny, inspiring, and worthwhile.

we rarely watch tv anymore, beacuse it is so common, H just flips the channel when ever something bad comes on. we rarely see a full show.

movies are screened carefully and if something come on, usually does, he changes it. so i have seen all of the marvel comic movies bc they were pretty safe, some thing i would never pick. but they were not bad.

History channel is safe.

History channel is safe.

...unless it's about any British royalty since, oh, about William the Conqueror!

(Apologies to SC and IG!)

I stay on the weather channel a great deal (...seriously...)

Even though is less now, I was reminded when reading the letter a WW is writing to her BH with her plan for recovery about how sorry I felt (feel) for my wife.

Its almost inconceivable to think I could feel bad for HER.

But I did and still do. The shame and indignity she put on herself is upsetting still. What an odd emotional state!

Maybe its the same part of my nature that allowed her to have no boundaries with him. Maybe my even-keeled and permissive attitude towards their friendship that let her the freedom to persue this course. An easygoing-ness that removed her guilt response to sleeping with another man? They did talk about how Id never leave her if they got caught. I think men with different personality types would never have even the most fleeting thought of compassion for a adulterous wife. (Probably most men would not allow them to be friends and then work together in the first place. But I digress.)

Now, sure, if I had to deal with a fogged out person having troube extracting herself from her AP, Id feel zero compassion for such a person.

But like the writer of that letter, my wife was devestated by this thing and has committed to that plan and I would add, she declared and has met all of my emotional needs 110%.

Im just wondering if any other BS out there felt 'sorry' for their spouses enduring the guilt and shame despite having little to do with its cause?

NEVER could I imagine dealing with the guilt of being a remorseful WS.

BSs are damaged by the infidelities of their WSs, certainly. But, in the absence of a completely psychopathic personality, NO ONE envisions becoming a WS. The vision of "self" we all have does not have room for the level of deceit and betrayal that is the "coin of the realm" of the WS world. Much more than DAMAGED, they effectively have DESTROYED their own beings, and have no claim to forgiveness or consideration.

No, thank you.

I remember the radio show in which Dr. Harley was discussing how to handle the triggers that make us sad/angry. He said not to bring them up and that when we feel badly about the affair, the BS should go to their spouse and ask for something specific, like a hug or a kiss or to be held. If the FWS asks what's wrong, the BS is supposed to stick to something like "I'm feeling a little down." Supposed to leave it at that.

Found this on another's thread a few pages back from today's posts. Didnt want to interupt their current subject which was SF which Im usually all about. But, I find this advice important.

As much as my wife is in serious pain over what she caused I sometimes like to remind her of how much I still ache. I dont AO. I dont do any lambasting and sulking, curtness, and the silent treatment are not things I do either.

But I still have anger and sadness at times that just swallowing makes me even more anxious.

This "tip" tells your spouse 4 things: 1) you are in a bad way right now, 2)you'll get through it, 3) and that she is doing a good job at making us better and, 4) that you still love her despite it all.

Im going to call this my THOUGHT OF THE DAY (even though I didnt think of it first).

A hug or kiss doesnt necessarily need to be just a prelude to SF. Whodathunk it?

From the 'dont seek for what you may find someday' files:

Found some old emails (circa 2007) she sent to him on the computer. It took some searching but there they were. Most were actually work related. A couple of them were her sending him info as he was on vacation and she was wishing she was there with him.

Another was her telling him she was going to be late for work and when she got there they'd go to lunch, have a couple of drinks, and 'the rest is history'. Pretty much know what that means.

She referred to me as an 'a$$' in one email saying she hoped I would be nice to OM. Now, this one made me happy as I definitely did not like how close "friends" they were and I definitely did not treat him well. At least they recognized my annoyance at their deal.

In the grand scheme they were not as bad as I thought they would be when I came across them. The words "I Love you" were NOT on any of them. And I could not find any that came from him to her.

It did answer some of those lingering questions I will never ask her such as did she ever, kind of, offer herself up to him. I knew the answer would be yes, but to see it in writing was enlightening. The next was did she bad mouth me to him. Yes, to that.

Anyway, anger was triggered. I told her calmly what I saw. I told her I was sorry for not protecting her or what was mine when I knew stuff was not kosher with them. I, as discreet as possible, told her after learning one's wife is sleeping with another guy, what was read on those emails is mild. She said sorry. I accepted again.

Now, what really would be something to see is thousands of texts they sent each over the years. In the beginning she'd be buried in that cell phone like a 14 year old girl with the texts.

Anyway, the fury is over. I used the new kiss and tell her Im momentarily upset over something technique. We made love. And its over.

No crying, yelling or anything bad. Life is grand.

We did have some unrelated to the above story crying last night.

When I came up to bed, she was whimpering over her failures in life. She took blame for much of our financail malaise mentioning she spent all this time focused on things that were so not important to the detriment of her family.

Our girl knows about her mom's activities even though its not spoken about. When tired, our D will whine about things she wants but we really are in no position to buy her (Iphone, Macbook, etc.). She has at least once threw in my wife's face that she did have a babysitting job (OM's kid) on weekends that my wife 'ruined' and she was saving her money for these things.

Last night it happened again. I kind of gave my wife a lecture about parenting and how she is doing the exact things HER mother did to her as a kid (and actually still to this day). As Ive spoken about here my wife lacked for nothing growing despite having parents who could not very much afford those thing. I told her what my father told me and words she never heard from her parents: "I CANNOT AFFORD IT." Even when my parents started to make a real nice living, those words were engrained in me and I knew the value of money.

The girl has a perfectly fine cellphone which we just added internet service. Its not the Iphone that ALL the other girls have.

What is really happening here is my wife is desperate to buy off my kid's happiness so she doesnt throw the A in my wife's face. I told her I will not accept that. After dday the kids and I forgave my wife and that should be enough.

Sorry for being so gabby this morning, just feel like talking to my therapists today.

You need to put your kid in check, not DJ your wife with a lecture.

Miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike.... come on, man. You know better than that.

Your wife was distraught and you gave her a parenting lecture, dude.

It was a lecture for both of that I delivered. We both are guilty of poor parenting decisions.

For instance, making High Honors is an expectation rewarded with a trip to the ice cream store, not an IPhone with a brutal monthly service fee. Then, what do we get her next year?

We are learning. And, my lecture was prefaced with 'you know what we both are not doing and what said we would not do the last time this came up....'