Fair comment!

We are committed to 4 MC sessions over January.

My plan before posting here was to tell him during these that I need him to end the A and commit to the marriage (ie in front of a third party).. At the end of those sessions I planned if he was not willing to do this to seek pastoral support from within the church (effectively exposure to someone who would encourage him to work on the marriage).

Too wishy washy?

The problem with vague words such as "support" and "hoping for" is that you are likely to get non-specific responses.

Example:
I, Pepperband, support you and your marriage.
Nice, and supportive,is it not? Good enough for you?



In real life .... I've been surfing the web this New Year's Day, looking for a different type of 'support group'. I need practical hands-on advice from people who have been where I'm headed and have dealt with these problems I am facing.

Stuff like:

This works
This did not work for me
Try this
Whatever you do, avoid that
etc etc etc

I do not need "Oh, you poor dear, how sad" ..or worse... "You're so brave"

I need REAL suggestions which constitutes 'support' in my world.

Life is very messy, isn't it?

PB,

The support I initially asked for was to cope with the knowledge of the A while working on improving the marriage. I have since found Mark52(?)'s fascinating thread on memory and triggers which is really helpful and covers a lot of those issues.

I am not looking for 'poor you' comments, but can see that how you might think I am.

I have also realised that you cannot help me unless and until I am willing to go for full exposure, because you have seen that is the only way that works. That is fair enough.

Yes, it is wishy washy, and childish. Grown mature women face their problems, they don't sweep them under the rug and leave it to others to solve. Your plan is one of conflict avoidance and weakness. You can tell your husband to end his affair by yourself for FREE today. You don't need a marriage counselor or a pastor to do what is YOUR JOB. You are a grown woman, not a child.

And "seeking pastoral support from within the church" is not exposure.

You can go to him today and DEMAND he end all contact with the OW. You can then give him 24 hours to confess his despicable behavior to church authorities. You can go with him for support. Going to marriage counseling is a waste of time that is designed to help you avoid conflict.

You don't support your husband by helping him be a bad man. You hurt him. You support your husband by demanding that he be a good man. You should accept no less.

We have different goals, Susie. Our goal is to save your marriage, yours is to avoid conflict at any cost and hope that someone ELSE solves your problems for you. ["third party" "pastoral support"]

Have you read carrot/stick?

Thanks PB, I have now. Really helpful.

And thanks ML. Really helpful.

He hasn't told her it's over...because it's not.

You understand that this is an ONGOING affair, right?

You understand that talking about the issues, meeting your WH's ENs and/or going to MC while there is still ANY contact will do NOTHING.AT.ALL to save your M, right?

Step #1 is ending the A and taking steps to ensure there can be no more contact. The rest of it doesn't matter until you do this first.

Do you understand that?

Just making sure...

If you are grown up enough to have children and drive a car, you are grown up enough to take steps to help your husband and save your marriage. Big gurls do not dump problems that can be solved THEMSELVES on others.

Here is how a mature, grown up woman would handle this problem. She would go to her husband TODAY all by her big gurl self and tell him, "husband, I have written you a letter that I would like you to read over. We can talk about this tonight."

I am suggesting a letter because a one on one conversation might be too emotional and I get the sense that you might be a timid woman. A letter would lay it all out clearly and concisely and there would be no misunderstanding.

Dear Joe, I want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and won�t stay in a loveless marriage with your continued affair. The pain your affair has caused me is unimaginable. I am willing to give you an opportunity to earn my forgiveness under certain conditions. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep me interested:


- End all contact TODAY with the OW - never talk to her or see her again
- send a No-Contact letter to the other woman that is written together and approved by me - it has to be sent by me
- exchange cell phones with me today and delete any email addresses to which the OW has access - all access must be blocked
- meet with the pastoral board on Monday morning [I will attend meeting with you] and confess your affair to them
- tell me the full truth about your affairs
- become completely transparent and give me access to your phone and emails;
- All leisure time should be spent together
- No more nights apart � EVER
- No opposite sex friendships
- Commitment to go through the marriage builders therapy, the whole way,
- Exposure of your affairs to all family members and close friends;

I will not remain married to you if I cannot respect and admire you.
I will not remain married to you if you continue to place me in unsafe situations.
I will not remain married to you if you are dishonest in the slightest.

This is what it will take to keep me in this marriage and earn my forgiveness. If you cannot do this, I would ask that you move out immediately.

Love,

Wife

HOPE is not a plan. Marriage counseling is destructive to marriages when there is an active affair. Many marriage counselors will not care if your husband remains in contact with the OW becuase they don't understand the dynamics of infidelity. They cause more harm than good and are often nothing more than divorce facilitators.

Plan A carrot only will not stop adultery.
The stick must also be applied.

Just to chime in.

My wife was the churchgoer. She got into an emotional affair with someone like your husband, except he was the pastor.

I tried to avoid embarrassment by trying to get it to end without exposure. No contact was never put in place.

It only went underground, deepened, and by the time I found MB, it was definitely too late. May have been before, but definitely was by then.

Oh, and I exposed. Affair ended.

Don't wait too late. Every day is important.

No one is advising you to alert the wire services, and I doubt the church would, either. The worst-case scenario could be the loss of his job. He can always get another job. Keeping quiet could lead to the loss of your marriage. He can always get another marriage. Which one do you prefer?

Looking at the broader picture: The one thing that is common to all affairs is that there are TWO people involved. One of them may not talk, but the other one might. You can't guarantee that OW won't one day develop a conscience and decide to make things right by disclosing the affair to someone. That starts the snowball rolling down the hill.

NOT disclosing this yourselves means that you lose control over it. You hand the information to others, who will do with it what they wish. For the rest of your lives, you and your WH will be looking over your shoulders, wondering if Today is the day he gets called into the office by his employer. Is that how you wish to live?

What if it is not a conscience she develops, but spite, or the anger of a woman scorned? You are protecting no one but the two of them. No one. Not your children, not the church. No one.

Believe me, I know.

Thank you.

So many helpful posts, pointing out things that I have not considered (and giving alternative views on things I have).

I am absorbing all that you have said and reading around on the forum.

My Qs to you were not rhetorical, I would really appreciate if you would answer:

1) Do you understand this is an ONGOING A?

2) Do you understand that talking about issues, going to MC, etc will not help your M AT ALL while there is an ONGOING A?

Susie, I want you to think about something else. By hiding this affair for your husband, he learns nothing from this and will never change because he remains in the fog. Even if he did end contact with this OW, he will just do it again because he will remain in the fog. In order for a person to change, they have to make radical changes in their behavior. Your H has no motivation to do any such thing.

So by keeping his secret for him, you are helping him stay sick, sinful and fogged out. Forcing this into the open, forces him to change by forcing him to see himself as others see him.

Read Dr Harley's comments on this most important aspect of recovery from adultery:



Do you see how your hurt your husband and your chances for recovery by your secrecy? He is fogged out, but you are not. And he needs your help.