Well, I have to say that was not in my vision when I (yes I) encouraged her to take that job. I think I have said on a number of occasions, I was an idiot, when talking about having way to much trust in what I thought was my FWW. That chess game did pay off financially, if she had not taken that job we wouldn't have been able to purchase this house. I know, I am looking at the finances, but in my mind it was what I was looking at back then, I never would have guessed she had it in her to have another A. I would have never bought the house had I known that, and she would never have been in her current job, as I wouldn't have allowed it. This doesn't stop me from trying to make good decisions for the future.

I gotta run, Be back later to see the error in my thinking.

She fooled around in FRONT of you in your own home. She fooled around with the car repair man. She fools around with any men she comes into contact with. She is actively CHASING it, Senn. Until you get that and start setting up your lives in a way that she can't do that, you will continue to experience affair after affair after affair.

Your wife knows all this. And if she were serious about changing, she would be changing her life. She has done absolutely NOTHING, though.

NOTHING.

Extraordinary precautions are something to be observed for LIFE, not just for a short time. They are to become a way of life if your goal is to effect an affair proof marriage.

then


Re-read the first sentence.

What he means is:


For a start, youve forgiven multiple affairs without any conditions. She knows full well that next time you will blame yourself again and forgive her again.

By believing this stuff, you dont have to do anything difficult. Ending a marriage, even to an unrepentant serial cheat is difficult. Making financial sacrifices - difficult. Making your wife toe a hard line or she's out - difficult.

Hell you didnt even want the working relationship with the guy doing your wife to be awkward - because it might be a bit difficult!

I am sorry Sipa, but it is true.

We have been banging our heads out on your wifes thread trying to get her to see her marriage will be over if she doesnt put the time in...

However she doesnt believe that because she knows you wont make her face any consequences.

You will just hope that she will stop it without her doing any actions to stop her adiction.

It is what you have done time and time again and what you are doing right now.

All BSs want it to be easy because it isnt their fault. It isnt easy. Sorry but that is a fact.

Senn,

You are just so hooked up by pursueing financial stability that you are unable to see that happy marriage is what will eventually make you rich. And this is not metaphorically, but literally.
Happy marriage makes you:
- be accountable about your time. The time you spend together meeting each others ENs makes you great partners, it gives you time discussing your life, making plans, practising POJA (also over finances), working towards your goals together and pooling your skills. We, for instance, started our own business last summer.
Unhappy marriage makes you:
- develop an independent lifestyle, collecting money for nothing (no happy future together), working your [censored] off to make more money, taking time apart, continue working in the wrong places, making independent decisions over your finances because you are unable to POJA or have to collect your FU money and also only talk about finances because it feels like the only "stable" thing in your life.

You know how to make money, I guess. I also think that you know what you need to do to recover your marriage from all this crap. You just don't want to do it, you like the fact that your WW is still working because she brings home THE MONEY. You are not supporting her to leave this job or to look for another place to work, because by working she is supporting your pursuit to financial stability and your dream to live in your dream house. The thing you don't seem to get is that by doing all this you are enabling her to remain the person she has been so far - a cheater and egotripper.

I am starting to think that your life plan is as follows:
- money, more money, financial stability
- dream house
- if time and money allows then my marriage

I really wish that this new year will bring you a radical shift in your thinking and pursuits.

#2575870 - 12/16/11 04:29 PM FPRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=" Re: 10 years later, another A [Re: senninpa]
Aphelion
Member

Registered: 05/25/04
Posts: 2514 A question for you to think about.

Why would a long term serial adulteress stay married to you?

Notice it does not ask why she would want to stay married to you. She probably deep down does not actually want to stay married to you; perhaps not to anyone.

You cannot ask her, BTW. She won�t know why other than she may have some nebulous fear of change and the unknown. She will not tell you the complete and radical truth in any case. She does not know what the truth of this is any more.

You have to provide an answer to this for yourself. Once you have a working answer to this question you will be able to see your way forward - whichever direction that will be.

Good luck. You will need it if you keep doing what you are doing.


PS: Call the MB counseling center. They will help you.
_________________________
"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan

"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it."

WS: They are who they are.

When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS


Personal opinion by me is that you danced all the way around this question to your response below........
senninpa
Member

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 105


Aphelion,

I have put much thought into that very question as I question whether she is really wanting what I want. I have explained to her that she needs to decide if this is what she wants, as



I don't want it to be some kind of tag along situation only for me to make this is her safe place while she just does what she feel at that moment throughout our marriage.

Is this what your M has become?

I can tell you she has had a rough couple of days, It is finally setting in, what she did, what she is, who she has become. She keeps saying "This is not who I pictured myself as, I wanted to be a good person and good wife". Having lost my sense of humor in all of this, I said "this isn't how I pictured who you were either".

Sad thing is my Brother who was married and divorced twice due to his serial cheating (man [censored]), has come up in discussion prior to our current problem. She would always make a snide remark about how awful it would be married to him, knowing he is out screwing anything that would look at him. She would even comment on how my brother's XW deserved it as she was the OW in his first marriage, She would say the she knew what she was getting into marrying the guy who cheated on his ex wife with her.

She now is thinking, she is no better than him, and how critical she was of him while she was lying to herself about who she was.

She is going through a very rough time, and I feel bad as a little part of me is enjoying the hell out of seeing her go through a little of what I have.




Mrs Recon hits it right on the MONEY below with the proiority list..............






When I could answer the question Alphelon asked honestly to myself then a radical shift in my thinking occurred. If nothing changes nothing changes. That is a good formula for keeping YOUR current situation going.

Just for the record....How many A's is an acceptable number before they outweigh the financial gain?

nESRE

"Why would a long term serial adulteress stay married to you?"

Nesre....I think the answer is that Senn's perception of marriage has deteriorated into a purely econimic relationship. It's a simple tradeoff for them. She can chase and bang as long as she continues to supply a regular paycheck to contribute to Senn's primary goal of financial stability.

Senn, I think people here are hoping to hear any semblence from you (or your wife for the matter) of any emotional attachment or romantic love between the two of you. Have not seen this expression in any of your posts. Have you even discussed meeting each others' EN's, quality UA time together, how you feel about your family, especially the effect on your kids, or the questions you may have regarding what may have lead to her continuing infidelity? Not a wit!! Tells me that your new home must be a very very cold place to live despite your supposed hope for financial stability. All you have done Senn is to present a slipshod list of supposed extraordianry precautions. I presume you quickly put these together to deflect criticism from your laissez faire attitude to your marriage. Your wife has simply copied these in her posts to justify the freedom to bang/paycheck basis for your marriage. And quite frankly Senn, if my wife had insulted other people trying to help (which my wife hasn't and never would), as your wife has, I'd be pretty damned upset and embarassed! Not you tho. You just write it off as her problem and her lack of discipline. Again, tells me that you two are a prime example of two people romantically and spiritually devoted to each other ...lol

Tom

Good post, Tom.

Recon, Nesre,
I do want more from my marriage, and it isn't all about finances or money. Our combined income only puts us in the upper middle class and I don't expect that to change, however, I do not want it to change for the worse. We are tight right now as we put every asset into our new home, and I want to maintain the new home in the meantime in the hopes this marriage is salvageble. I must base my decisions on that as well as on the marriage. It would be foolish to let the finances crumble to save the marriage, especially if I feel we can save both.

Tom,
My current primary goal is to build our finances back up enough that we can be flexible enough to make a decision that would result in less income. This hasn't always been my primary goal, as we have maintained a decent cushion in our bank account that we would be more capable of dealing with the unknown, such as and affair in our marriage. As for ENs and affection between W & I. We do love each other very much, though, as you know, that isn't enough when dealing with affairs and infidelity.

We didn't just throw together the EP list, we have gone over multiple times, and currently practice every item on the list. I check her phone and compare it to her phone records. Our e-mail is combined. She calls when she is running late. we have been spending way more than 20 hours a week together through the holidays, and have worked out a schedule for upcomming weeks.

We are working on these things, and are reading the books again as it is amazing how much you forget over 10 years.

...and it isn't all about finances or money

Maybe not, but...

My current primary goal is to build our finances back up...

I think my colleagues here would have preferred seeing:

My current primary goal is to put structures in place to ensure my WW cannot ever have another inappropriate relationship with another man, and then decide whether or not there remains enough of a relationship between US to do the work to recover fully.

Or maybe I'm reading them wrong?

Again, you have not even implemented extraordinary precautions if she still works an opposite shift and works in an environment that is all men. Reading books will not compensate for a lack of affair proofing. So all of this is window dressing that does nothing to address and resolve the basic problem.

Instead you are here talking about your finances. I am not sure why. Her little night job is obviously not the only job in your state and if you are in America, she is not an endentured servant. Instead of spending all that time reading books, why not devote that time to something that will save your marriage, ie: getting her another job?

What I see here, Sem, is that we take your marriage more seriously that you do. And that is why she has had 6-8 affairs. This will continue as long as she is free to chase men at work and home all day. You need to get serious here if you want to turn this around. You have 15 years of sweeping the problem under the rug. As Dr Phil would say, "how's that working for ya?"

All you need to read right now is this:


FIRST PART is to "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions." "eliminate the conditions."

I think you may be asking the wrong question. It's not why she would want to stay with you. I'm wondering why you want to stay with her.

Take control of the decision. While it's not my decision to make, I can advise that you need to take a long hard look at who she is and WHAT she is DOING and decide if it's enough to keep you interested in remaining married to her.

The way I see it, and I could be wrong, she does just enough to keep your interest. The question is are you expecting too little from your wife?

Perhaps you need to raise your standards and if she doesn't meet those standards, make a decision.

What many are suggesting is that your standard should be 100% adherence to the MB plan. If she is unwilling or unable to follow the plan, then do you really want her as your wife?

Further, if you keep her in her job, just so you can keep your current lifestyle, what does that say about your top priority? I'm not saying you are shallow, I'm asking you to examine how you rank things and go from there.

When I seriously answered those questions to myself this was my list.

Money

Staus quo

The fa�ade of a happy family in the beautiful lake house�They must have it made��..

You would have never known the sadness that existed in that house when you drove by.

Accepting nESRE and life had to change.

Continually running into a brick wall and then complaining how it hurt was no fun and the people around me were sick of it..


Why would I stay married to a seriel cheater?

Why would she want to stay married to me...Because I let her........


That was my sin.


That was what I asked my God to forgive me for.


My own selfishness kept us together way longer than it ever should have.


I kept picking up pieces and trying to put it all back together. WW was just along for the ride with very little consequences or changes made. Just enough to get by..



I did all the heavy lifting.

Would have loved to have seen the XWW do some lifting to. Did not happen....

but...........


It wasn't about WW. It was about nESRE.



nESRE

AS I heave heard often recently, "The one who cares least in the relationship has the most power."

senn, I noticed you acknowledge the job has to change but you ignored these questions by ML. Can you answer them? Is anything currently being done to get her out of that opposite shift job?

I cannot disagree with what you all have to say. You are correct in your logic and probably aren't too far off from your assesment of where I am.

I am going to write what I told my WW the other day, haven't done that here as I know you will pick this apart and beat me over the head with it.

My state of mind right now is this; I fully expect to recover from this A that my wife has inflicted apon me. I fully expect her to as well (or IN OTHER WORDS,get over the fact that she got caught). I do not want to go through life worrying about when or if she is going to have another affair and with whom. I am fully expecting this marriage to end, most likely with another affair.

I am at a point, and have been for the past couple of weeks, of giving up, and just accepting the fact that I will not grow old and retire with this woman. Instead I want to get the finances streight, keep her in a position she can survive post D and prepare for a devorce. I still love the woman, and despite what she has done to me, I don't want to see her fail if we do go our seperate ways.
I mentioned the other day, I have changed my attitude, if she wants it bad enough she will start to come around, but I am not taking responsibility anymore for fixing this doomed marriage. I agree with you all, she has a long way to go if she is going to save our marriage.

So you are making money for a woman who has cheated you over the years just for her to be better off after the divorce?

Very noble.

You shouldnt protect her from the consequences of her affair! How else will she learn!!!

In your shoes I would be insisting on a post nup giving m everything if the marriage fails and custody of the kids. Real consequences will motivate her into being a better wife and mother. One who has time for her family. FIRST. By giving up her night shifts

She will always be your kids mother after all.

If she refuses to hand over the reins to you and commit to recovery I would then proceed to the harshest divorce process ever telling her she has the power to prevent it by committing properly to a marriage.

That is the MB way - but you prefer your way.

But I dont think you care enough to fight that hard and set an example of what you expect.