Those are some GREAT questions. Let me shed some light on them for you.

You asked.. "What was it about the experience that made you feel awful?"

It was much like the "high" people talk about here when someone has an affair. The visual stimulation feels great... in the moment while your high on it .. but when your done with it the after effects leave you feeling depressed and even more empty than before. My excuse was the porn would tide me over til my wife desired me becasue of the rejection or her lack or participation but in the end I felt degraded, and disgusting..

I felt depressed from the lack of connection I wanted with my wife.

I felt like I had betrayed my wife.

I felt lonely and sad, because it was an experience I was not having with my wife that I SOO badly wanted.

I felt embarassed and guilty about my sexual needs like there was something wrong with me.

I felt weak for not having any will power to be able to control my urges or express them to my wife without fear of rejection.

Then I would tell my self after wards each time "This was the LAST time" But for some reason it never was and i hated myself for that. But would often find myself, especially after a week or 2 of tough times with my wife and no need meeting or not of the quality i desired, back at it again and then all those feelings above along with the feeling of worthlessness would kick in. BUT it always felt justified and normal at first! IT was always after the fact that the other feelings kicked in. NEVER During or before... only after.

This would set my mood off and I would be insensitive towards my wife and kids that day if i used porn. I would be feeling resentment towards my wife, because I blamed her for my porn use due to unmet needs. I would be filled with shame because I was not able to stop and because I knew it was wrong but I would always justifiy it because my wife would tell me over and over to stop pressuring her and to let things happen naturally on their own (but my emotional needs would scream at me every few days, where my wife could happily wait weeks). AND SO I also blamed god that my sexual needs were so strong as i tried to pray them away.

This cycle of disconnect created a sexual aversion in my wife for the longest time that fueled the porn to continue. However .. I knew that if I could curb my thoughts and desires long enough and get my wife on board with MB .. that we could turn it all around. And we are 100x better now than when I was engulfed in this disgusting behavior.

You asked ... "When a man doesn't connect to his wife how does he feel?"

I feel insecure .. I feel lonely .. I feel like a pay cheque. I feel unimportant to my wife. I feel unloved.

You asked ... "Does he just compartmentalize it or does it cause him to internally turn to stone?"

It gets compartmentalized at first .. it gets put into a "its no big deal box" but when the other factors come into play the "no big deal box" gets overfilled and the porn spills out of the box first before everything else does that ends up in there. I would only turn to stone internally when I didnt feel safe to talk about it .. or had a solution that i felt would be win win so it would get stuffed back into the "no big deal box" as often as I could .. but it would always pop back out again as if it was saying .. "HEY YOU BETTER DEAL WITH ME OR THERE WILL BE TROUBLE!" and there always was .. one way or another.

Wow ... I said all that? Sorry if i repeated myself a bit. Kinda good to get out. I am SOOO greatful for marriage builders and my AMAZING WIFE! Hopefully this sheds some light on it ... infact it even helps me. No one has ever asked those questions. They are loaded ones thats for sure.

MNG

MNG covered it perfectly.

I have nothing to add to that.

Well, except for compartmentalization.

Porn isn't what get's compartmentalized.

Sorry, no. That's the part that's still alive.


What gets compartmentalized is that desire for a wife that isn't a cold, disconnected, dismissive, AO and DJ machine for whom nothing is ever enough.

That gets compartmentalized so that we can smile and move through the day.

Use of porn lets THAT out of the box.

Use of porn scratches that surface paint, and shows the pain underneath, rather than being anything "good."

Your right HHH thanks for your contribution to my question answering.... i didnt think of the compartmentalization in that aspect. SEE ... still learning .. but your absolutely right. I just didnt see it til you mentioned it.

edit to add .. that question answering for some reason was tough for me to write .. in fact it was very humbling. Sad to relive it all actually. But none the less .. it is what it is and I am past it all thanks to MB.

MNG

Quote

Some other perspective on the issue of pornography and it's affect on a whole nation.

Threadjack - Kalahari, obvious the author of the article either hasn't been to Japan or doesn't really know a lot about the people.

Today I came across and article that I found very interesting, especially having just been reading this series of posts.

"According to a new study, people can't tell the difference between quotes from British "lad mags" and interviews with convicted rapists. And given the choice, men are actually more likely to agree with the rapists."

Article


ETA: That link does contain a photo of a magazine cover that is a prime example. Wanted to add that forewarning...

Deacon, that sounds like proof positive that nobody should ever read these magazines for the articles.

well peperband guess am an outcast here now. but sems this story line is sort of finished now. Now that were at end of yea r just before new yeras just am wonreing if i could apologixe to you for whatever harsh comments. We can disagreet but I am sorry for then now as you seem to be decent person. So anyway I;m hoping you can accept. Ltet hope that New Years is better for all.

Tom

Just an after thought. just wtathing a western nnow tonight and no not with john ayne but wild bunch. just sometimes makes me wonder when you are not part of a cliqcue as here if maybe then that outlaw is good. just sort of my reflection tonight before news yeurs. I don;t know maybe too old and too long int the saddle and faithrufl and well now separated. I don't tink younger people could undetand that that takes away a part of your spirit. no not spirite but in terms of being a nice guy supposedly and playing the game. One thing abut the outlaws is that they wouldnt tleroate what some of the weak men here do.

anyway spologose again an happy new yer

Tom

Will you be seeing your wife and children over New Year, Tom?

I hope you have a good one, with whomever you spend it.

I actually understand more than you might know, Tom.

I work in a transitional phase of elder care. Here, residents have their own apartments (minus toasters, stoves, and ovens) and define the amount of care they receive. Often times when a married couple arrives, it is due to one spouse having care needs beyond what their spouse can provide.

Often times, their care needs will progress to a point which is beyond what our facility provides.

In those cases, that spouse then progresses to the next level of care (skilled facility, or memory care) and the healthier spouse is left here, as their level of care has NOT changed.

Let me tell you that separation due to differing care needs is harder on that healthy spouse than death of a spouse.

I do get it, Tom. I work with men and women in situations somewhat similar to yours every day. Every. Day.

I gave you some things to look into several months ago, have you done any of it?

No worries.

Hello Pepperband,

It's taken me until today to look in here on my posts from the other evening. I didn't feel that I said anything that bad on this or any other threads I posted on, but that I should have recognized that I should not have been posting. I feel I appeared simply foolish. I fully know that reasonable people don't or should not trust or accept that which people say when they are under the influence of anything - alcohol, drugs, or bad humor. I just wanted you to know that I did mean what I tried to convey in my apology to you. Thanks.

Tom

Sugar Cane, well just thank you for even thinking.

Well my son and his girl came over yesterday, New Years, and we watched part of a game and then I made shrimp scampi for us. It was nice and I enjoy being with then both but I didn't have my heart in it until we were on phone with my wife. Also, talked with my daughter who lives in another state and wants to visit here because she has a relationship issue now. My son and his sister haven't talked that much recently but did yesterday. He just started a new job as a bus driver - he just needs to pass his physical next week - am sure he will. At times Sugar Cane I allow myself to be selfish and just wish that our kids would just simply get it and get on their own finally. I know their situation tho and I wish Ididn't have to feel I have to handle these thing along. But, went to catholic mass yesterday morning, and in our faith it was the feast of the solemnity of Mary. I am glad I went because I dedicated my day to her. It isn't only that, it's that I feel I have a relationship with her. I have been attemtping to make first saturdays to her for awhile - have done a few - but do you know what - I feel really that in terms of conscience that she is really beside me. That helps me. You probably think I am insane. When I do feel down, and yea in terms of drinking as I did the other night, She picks me up and helps me to realize my responsibility to continue to support and parent our kids now matter how old and irritated I may feel.

I guess for anyone reading this, no, I am not advocationg that my devotion to Mary is anything in the way of diminishing the importance of Christ in our lives. It is simply that I feel one of the ways to approach Him is thru his mother.

HelpHer...thank you also for your response. Cannot argue with you that it is hard to be separated phyically. It's pure [censored] growing older! It husts seeing the only one you love begin to lose abilities etc. The only thing you can do as the healthier spouse is to deal with it and to be supportive.

Tom

Were you alone on New Year's Eve? Did that make you feel particularly lonely without your wife? I'm sure those times must be very hard to deal with.

Did you tell us that you were in AA? If so, do you have a sponsor? Do you call on him when you feel tempted to have a drink?

I understand that in Roman Catholicism Mary is of great importance to followers, and I don't see anything wrong with that. It is not something to apologise for, and it certainly does NOT make you seem insane!

I am not familiar with the Catholic faith, but it sounds like you find comfort in Mary. I see nothing wrong with that.

You're a good guy, Tom, and I worry when I see you posting under the influence. (But it's better than driving under the influence! ) It concerns me because I can tell that you are down and I hate to see that for you. You've got a lot on your plate, friend. Treat yourself well.

{{{Tom}}}

Hello sugarcane,

Was alone that night and just got back from visiting her so my feelings just welled up when I was back here that a year ago we could at least be together and we can't now easily. It was the day before new years and I didn't have that much to do that day so I just let the funk come on. We have never missed being tgether over a new years since 1970.

I've thought about how I should have handled my feelings and I should have called her just to tell her I miss her and lonely and talk with her but I didn't because I let myself feel sorry for me for awhile. Missed a couple of her calls and when I did call her back I was informed she had taken her meds and was sleeping.

I am an A.A. member altho I haven't attended many meetings the last year and half or so. I am a member of an online A.A. group but that is not same as face-to-face. I have had two magnificent sponsors over my previous recovery but both of those guys unfortunately have passed away over the last several years. They were both older at the time I met them but they both were the kindest most unbelievable and selfless people I have ever known. I miss those guys too. I've had a temporary sponsor - yea like over the last five years I know - who has been good but it's been intermittant and when we get together afer any meetins he prefers late evening coffee etc. at a local restaurant that is fairly expensive. I went to a meeting sunday at a 24/7 house here and realize what I have to do now.

Thanks, and I hope that your life and that of your family in this new yaer is very well.

Tom

That must have been horrible, Tom. I am really saddened to read about how hard it is to be permanently separated in the way that you are.

I don't like to nag since you seem to know already where you went wrong, but I would just like to suggest that you use AA as more of a support group than you have been doing recently. We are here too, of course, as we were on New Year's Eve - but I mean specifically for the temptation to drink; AA is best for that, I should think. Can you organise your life so that you can get to meetings regularly and frequently from now on?

My family is well and happy, thank you. I wish the best for you and yours in 2012.

Marital....well I guess a belated happy new year to you and all the members of your family!

Yes I do as far as Mary is concerned. It's a very very funny feeling in my heart tho Marital. I feel once you begin a devotion - yea even to a 'spiritual' being, you cannot take it back! I remain devoted to my wife, but this is different. I began this a couple of years ago back in May 2010 just based on my very catholic upbringing that when you get older you desire some assurance regarding eternal life and so you search out for that spirtual being in your faith who may be able to provide you that hope in your own heart. I did, and I found this, and it is the first saturday devotion in my own faith. In the Catholic faith it is a devotion to Mary on each of five fisrt saturdays. But what a simple-minded idiot I was in the way I aproached this! Even tho you try to live a good life, but still have some trepidations for the after-life, it IS the realtionship with that spiritual being that you may want to establish - however you label him/her. In my case it is Mary, after awhile now. I guess be careful what you wish for because once that relationship is established, once you committ, she or Christ or the God of your choice is simply going to be hurt if you want to break off and divorce. I guess simply I feel her always so with me daily laughing with me and talking into my heart no matter what I do even tho she is on a separate plane. In a way Marital it is weird.

I am not trying to imply that in my faith she is more important, but my faith now has recognized that she is one of the ways to God -- same as the road to the super bowl now hast to go thru Green Bay Marital. *s*

Tom

Hello sugarcane, thank you.

I just tried to post to you and I also wanted to assure Marital which was one of the reasons I came back on here again that I wasn't trying to prosletize about my concept about Mary but I punched wrong key on my keyboard and the entire post was gone.

sugarcane, wasn't horrible just a sad feeling. I gave in to it but I know what you mean. I have an AA meeting Friday evening and am going to find a new sponsor there. It is a large group.

I'm doing fine. I went to confession last Saturday after my relapse - well like a magical thing for you non-catholics *s* - and he asked me for pennance to take some time to thank God for my blessings. I have many sugarcane, Char, our kids especially my son who lives close by but can be a pain in the [censored] sometimes but I love him for who he is, my health, my sense of humor, my friends who are around, and last but not least Mitzie and Rusty. I cannot help typing their names without laughing. They are treasures, even tho they are only cats, but when I came home tonight Mitzie was laying on top of a recliner sleeping. Woke her up and shook her gently to wake her and now she is all over the place.

Also sugarcane I've been encouraged by a good friend to start writing again. Meaning something like satisfying a dream to do a screenplay for whichever medium either serious or comedy. I have started a few but it is hard to keep plugging away. Have this idea and have done an outline of a story of a couple in a nursing home discovering a romantic relationship with each other. No they are not married any longer so no affair - just two 'old' people realizing the prospects even tho they even tho they have to learn to manage their walkers. Just many thoughts and dreams but I am imagining this too now. It would have to have lots of good (not cheap old-age or sexual) humor.

As I have said I have quite a few friends. Somehow tho it is pleasing to express to friends on here as it is somtimes difficult to express in same way to your friends face-to-face.

Tom

Tom--do your own Nano!

Script Frenzy is in April, I believe. The movie/script version of National Novel Writing Month.

Or you could just not wait for April.