Susie. I suspect that the problem is more due to the fact that your WH is very manipulative and knows exactly which buttons to push to get his desired reaction and also his way. This applies to his affectionate behaviour as well.

You are being manipulated. Watch this.

A loving and caring H does not string along his family while HE decides what HE wants.

MC is just another one of his manipulation tactics to appease you and string you along for more time. Drop the MC...MelodyLane has already given you the things that need to happen.


I am glad you are still here. Keep reading.

Who is the key person and do they have authority over your husband? This has to be a person of authority in the church who has the power to fire and separate the affairees.


Who is the OW's supervisor and why would he have any influence over this? Just ONE key relation? What about your family and his family? Close friends?

I want to caution you against doing a trickle, check the box, exposure. It won't be effective in killing the affair. It will only be effective in infuriating the adulterers enough to come after you.

I have a feeling that you are doing just enough so you can pretend like you did something. Don't give into that tempation. The most potent exposure you can do is to your church pastor and the church authorities so they can hold your husband accountable.

You also have the problem of the OW attending that church. That is a breach of no contact. What will you do about that?


Can you search facebook for people with the same last name as the OW? That might produce some family members.

This is a great question and I am glad you asked it. You are basically asking if compatibiltiy is inherent or if it is LEARNED. Compatibility is LEARNED. It does not happen by accident. Emotional needs are satisfied EASILY in marriages where the partners are in love. This is why Marriage Builders has a plan to restore the romantic love in marriage. It also teaches couples to become compatible.

It is a struggle to meet needs when one is not in love. It comes effortlessly when you are in love and your aim is good.

I like that you asked these questions.


The marriages that are not working are not using Marriage Builders. In the broken marriages that you see, there is one partner that is not on board. And the program cannot work without a committment from both. The other thing you might be seeing is the REPEAT affairs from older board members who NEVER followed Dr Harley's guidelines in the first affair. They are back here with repeat affairs.

In the case of affairs, Marriage Builders cannot FORCE a wayward spouse to end his affair and commit to the marriage. But it can have a great influence. No guarantees, though. In the marriages where both partners commit to the program, the success rate is 90%+

Susie, Dr. Harley says that in decades of counseling, he has never seen one couple that used his plan and failed to restore romantic love. It works every time, when followed. The difficulty is in successfully motivating one or both partners to actually follow it.

Who is the key person and do they have authority over your husband? This has to be a person of authority in the church who has the power to fire and separate the affairees.



He does as much as anyone


Who is the OW's supervisor and why would he have any influence over this? Just ONE key relation? What about your family and his family? Close friends?


He also knows H and will be aware of the ramifications of the situation professionally and how badly it could reflect on his institution if the A comes out. The key relation is the one I have not contacted. The others are the ones I referred to above, including close friends.


I want to caution you against doing a trickle, check the box, exposure. It won't be effective in killing the affair. It will only be effective in infuriating the adulterers enough to come after you.


If the affair becomes public, the likelihood is public and national scandal, job loss and divorce. I calculate that H is going to go ballistic with what I am planning anyway.

You also have the problem of the OW attending that church. That is a breach of no contact. What will you do about that?


This is why I am contacting the OW's supervisor. She moved to this city last summer in order to do research into my H's specialism. She has now covered the work that she needs to be here for and could be encouraged to leave. The pastor I am contacting should also be relied upon to encourage her to leave.If I can contact family they might bring pressure to bear too.


Can you search facebook for people with the same last name as the OW? That might produce some family members.

I have spent some hours doing that. I am not sure of even the last name as her parents are divorced. I found a lead on someone who might be her mom but there is no-one on FB matching that name that I can access. Her father was (I think) in the CIA and I suspect the whole family is completely sorted on Internet security. Any other ideas?

Thanks for the answers to my question - really helpful.

We didn't do so good on the romantic love in the first place, shameful to say. Our marriage is building up from scratch rather than restoring...

I am confused about what you are saying. The affair will naturally become public when you expose to their supervisors. You just said that this is a person who has the authority to fire your husband. How can your husband retain his job if his boss knows he is abusing his authority in a church?

Exposure will not cause a divorce and it won't cause job loss. If he loses his job it will be a consequence of his unprofessional behavior. If he doesn't lose his job, he will be free to exploit other females there.

How would any of that lead to divorce?

Thats ok. This program can CREATE romantic love if followed. Romantic loves does not come from "chemistry" or pre-ordained "soul mates" but from an actual method.

This is very common in BSs. The wayard pushes buttons to make them angry. Then demonizes and blames. It helps them ignore their guilt.

Some waywards (like mine) are not interested in working the plan until the A is dead. Others want to have more affairs even when the original A is dead and are not interested in an MB style safe committed marriage. A plan A or B can kill the affair and then you insist on them following the plan.

If he is up for it great, if not you are better off with someone committed and caring.

Anyone can learn how to meet their partners needs if they care about doing so.

I like your exposure plan.

Hi Susie, how are you doing?

Do you have a keylogger on his computer? Spyware on his phone? Have you looked for an affair phone?

You should.

It will help you verify the extent of this active affair and may spur you into taking a more active/energetic response to his behavior.

When you expose, and I hope that you tell everyone under the sun, his response will probably be a variance of the following:

1. I was going to work on this marriage but not now!
2. How could you do this? If you loved me, you wouldn't have done that!
3. It's over!
4. I never loved you!
5. It's your fault that the polar ice caps are melting!
6. It's your fault that it rained last week and got my car dirty!

In other words, you'll have to ignore certain ramblings.

Hi

First of all thanks again to everyone who has replied - I have really appreciated it. I haven't replied before as I am slow to take things on board. What you have helped me understand especially is:
- H is in a fog as regards the A. I can see this now and it doesn't upset me as much as I don't have to try to argue with the fogginess I can just ignore.
- what plan A and B are for, ie that they recognise that in order to have a chance the A has to stop and all contact stop and then the marriage has to be built up again following the MB programme.

So (and I'm sorry if I don't answer questions - do ask again if you think they remain unanswered and are essential):
1. I've established that I want in this marriage (I've let myself be derailed by H's uncertainty at times) and I have to keep firm to this if I want this to work.
2. I try not to talk about the A except to say I need H to stop contact entirely.
3. I believe absolutely that there has been no contact besides what I've been told about because I have observed H's manner and how he talks change over the last few weeks in particular.
4. Have spoken to the pastor at church. He is adamant that OW must leave and is happy to take the steps necessary to achieve that. He knows OW's supervisor and is prepared to contact him. He is meeting H.
5. H is close to writing NC letter. Again, there has been movement on this over the last week or so. It is no longer 'if' but 'when'.

Especial thanks to those who answered questions about MB and marriage generally. There may be one or two more.

H is terrified of being stuck in a non-working marriage. He is scared that we will try to make things work initially and that we will then gradually stop working and it will all go wrong again. Does the SAA book have a specific programme of any kind to follow? I am understanding more about where we went wrong and am noticing eg how disrespectful of H's opinions I can be when we discuss something we differ on. We have such a long way to go that how will we know we've really got there?! Or is that a silly thing to ask...?

Hi Susie,

Hang in there it's a tough road, but I do see the light at the end of the tunnel...Just follow the MB ways and act with compassion and grace.......
You don't want the old marriage you have a chance to start at square one, if you follow the plan here it will work and it will work for the rest of your marriage.
Keep reading, keep learning.........you have come to the right place.........

Right. You need to expose far and wide and you must insist on an honest, open and fresh start which includes an NC letter is written IMMEDIATELY.

I would not get into discussions as to whether or not he should want the marriage. Just tell him you want a loving marriage after NC is written. If not he is looking at a tough divorce and you will not be his friend afterwards.



This sounds very foggy. Why is that NC letter not written? He may be very afraid of what damage he has wrought on his marriage (and so he should be) but that fear of what he has destroyed should get the letter written faster not slower.

I would guess he is dragging things out and hoping that you will drop it so he doenst have to dump her from such a height. He wants both you and the OW - at the very least he wants her as a back up plan.

I would not worry about being 'disrespectful' when he hasnt even done the first thing towards recovering his marriage. He needs to do much more than he has so far and he needs to get moving. He needs to understand there wil be conseqences if he does not.

Oh and EXPOSE to everyone who can encourage him to do the right thing and who can pressure OW - that should be done first of all by you, without warning your H.

Keep it calm, short and sweet - but be insistent. Let him know you wil not accept an ongoing affair and the A is ongoing until the letter is written.

What's his hesitation? A truly remorseful wayward normally has no qualms about writing a NC letter.

Then he needs to buck up and get to work on making his marriage fantastic! Does he think 'working' marriages just happen? He's going to have to pull his share of the load, here.

And why would anyone want to have a 'working' marriage, anyway, when they can have a loving, romantic marrige? What the heck's a 'working' marriage?

Your WH can roll up his sleeves and get to the business of recovering the M with you, or he can divorce. I don't get his hesitation.

Susie, he has told you he has been in contact, though. *THAT* is the problem. Your marriage has no hope of recovery as long as he continues to see or speak or email the OW. THIS is the problem. You seem to be under the impression that telling you about contact makes it ok. No it does not. If an heroin addict shoots up heroin, are it's effects negated because I tell you about it? No. And it is the same with his affair. ALL CONTACT MUST END.

And it is up to you to DEMAND he end all contact for life. That is not a negotiable condition.

When will all contact end? And how will he prove it has ended?


Is the pastor his direct supervisor? And has he met with your H? Does your husband know he has been exposed at work? Or is the pastor hiding the affair to protect the crime?


It takes about 2 minutes to write a no contact letter. What is the delay here?

Susie, you are on the right path, but I would encourage you to be a little more assertive here. You are dealing with a very fogged out, selfish, entitled wayward and it will take a FIRM stance to get this done.


The program of recovery is outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

And what about your children and your families? Have they been told about your husbands adultery?

I believe there has been no contact with OW since the last contact he told me about, which was in mid December. H is naive rather than scheming. If it were me (which it wouldn't be!) I would be scheming - after all I am on here talking to you all without telling him.

The most important thing surely is first achieving NC and then working on the M. He is moving towards both of these. Exposure is, yes, the best chance to achieve the first of these quickly but the most important bit is the marriage rebuilding. When H had an EA 10 years ago, exposure did stop the EA but we never fully sorted the marriage rebuilding, partly because we never agreed to NC - foolish I know (OW worked with him) but if I could live my life backwards I wouldn't be in this situation... - but also because we didn't address the issues.

He will write the letter. I will ok it and send it. He knows this must be done. He knows pastor has been told and pastor is going to meet with him and also be firm about OW. I have not seen OW since I confronted her in the church (back in early December) about the children - she was trying to play with them in coffee after the service when I was talking to someone else. She didn't look at me, and just left very quickly. I believe that with the combination of the pastor and a NC letter she will leave the area entirely - she is here for the church and if she is persona non grata there she will leave the whole area.

Families know about situation. I will not tell my children unless we move to Plan B, if H refuses to write letter. Pastor has approved Plan B (needed to confirm that as H is required to live in our house to do his job - needed to be sure they would support me throwing him out. They will). Children are (a very immature) 7 and (a more mature) 5. When things are so close to moving I cannot do this to them.

We are talking constantly about future plans and what could be done to make it work better. H has accepted he has trampled all over me but we agree that I have been a doormat. Unfortunately it is taking me time to learn how not to be a doormat without being aggressive. You have all helped me in that, actually, by helping me see where I am, but I cannot stop being a doormat just by doing things other people are telling me to do unless I am absolutely convinced of them.

I have a lot of respect to build from him. I notice that I am doing that when I hold my ground, and I can only do that with things I am sure about. I am noticing that when I talk calmly about the fogginess connected with the A and refuse to engage with things about it, also when I stand my ground about loving him and wanting to make the marriage work and believing it can. I am not sure about full public exposure (for all sorts of reasons, only partly mentioned here) and unless I am I cannot stand firm.

He is selfish, fogged and entitled, I agree. A 'freeloader' - I have realised that I am a 'renter' (when I thought I was a 'buyer'). Exposure did not solve any of these things with the EA, though, and I don't believe they will with this.

He is nearly there on the NC letter. I will move into Plan B by the end of Jan if he doesn't write it, but I believe he will.