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My point was not about approval. But, rather, about your need to show action if you are going to want help.

Tonight would be good.

Because your marriage started in such circumstances, you've put yourself in the class of people who have a LOT going against you. Only a very small number of affairs turn into marriages. Of those, almost none are happy, successful marriages. And even those that are, the participants usually still wish they had not had the affair.

We can try to help you, but the odds are really, REALLY against you. And I mean REALLY against you.

The thing is, you need to change a lot of things about your life in order to have a good marriage. You already know you guys need to change the amount of time you spend together, and you've made some promising comments thinking about how you can do that. But there's going to have to be more to that. The beliefs and practices in your life that led to the original affair with your current husband are the very beliefs and practices that make a good marriage impossible. Those beliefs and practices have to change if you want to have a good marriage now.

The problem with this line of thinking is you are deciding for another, adult human being.

Why not share with him and let him decide if he wants to know more or less going forward? The selfish part is not if you tell or if you don't tell. The selfish part is deciding, unilaterally what you are going to do.

Don't decide unilaterally, ask him if he wants to know about something that is potentially damaging to the marriage regarding your current feelings.
Shouldn't he be allowed the opportunity to decide if it's important to him or not?
This practice prevents intimacy. Intimacy is not about just sharing all the warm and fuzzy, it's about being OPEN AND HONEST with one another.

Dishonesty, including the form known as omission is the exact opposite of intimacy.
And most marriage are bad because of it. You don't avoid the problems. You don't avoid the difficult discussions to protect the marriage. You work THROUGH them.

An athlete doesn't get stronger and better at his game by avoiding the tough workouts and tedious drills. He gets stronger because he does the hard things and keeps practicing until he's an expert at them.

Do you want the status quo for your marriage, just good enough, or do you want an elite marriage? What you get depends on the nature of your work ethic, including how hard you work at real intimacy.
Like the orders you tacitly give that this isn't important to him? How is deciding for him any different than barking orders to one another.

You don't want that, but yet you are advocating that very thing. A different manifestation, but the same general theme, telling someone else what they need to know or do.
Don't tell us, show him that you really mean your words.

OK, so when is your appointment with Steve or Jennifer?

Not at all. In fact, he has stated that step children just add to the problem, but are not the main source. The source of the problem is:



In other words, exactly what Harley predicts is happening in your marriage. You are being "deceitful, thoughtless, and dishonest.."

He has also stated that he has NEVER been able to turn around an affair marriage. He said he has never figured out how to make them happy. They are always unhappy marriages filled with deep problems and fraught with regret.

Harley discusses affairages here: radio clip

Shmoopy,

I am not am MB expert but can I offer some advice?

Reading your thread, I can only think of one thing:
She is trying to convince herself that it is normal to eventually meet her needs outside her marriage. She is telling herself that this is inevitable (ie. it happens to all) anyways.

You literally tell us that you want to help your marriage, but all your posts contain sly comments about how it is normal to have a crush, it is normal to meet your needs with another man, that it is expected to be miserable in the end... we know that is not true.

Surely you didn't believe this when you got married to him and then decided to have 4 kids? Did you? Why did you get married and bring 4 kids into this? Or are you telling yourself this because it's more fun to have a crush and meet your needs with another man than to actually work on your marriage, years later, when it becomes difficult?

No, it's not once a cheater, always a cheater - but that's only when they stop thinking with the rationale of the cheater. That is what you are doing - still. Are you ready to change your way of thinking?

Shmoopy

I had an insane crush on one of my H friends a couple of months ago so I know exactly how you are feeling. I met him once when my H invited him to our house and I literally became obsessed with thinking about this man although i have zero contact with him and only ever met hi once with my H present so again I really know how you feel. But unlike you I am totally over the crush now and here is how I did it.

1) I told my H about exactly how I felt. Complete honesty and asked my H to never have this friend over to our house again.

2) I also became obsessed with Facebook and checking on his pictures and status via my H facebook account and again told H what I was doing and he has now blocked him on FB which has helped a great deal.

3) I realise that the crush for me was an escape fantasy from a marriage that was not good and so I could either waste time in la la land or come down to earth and try to fix the problems in the marriage. I am working with the MB principals to sort out our issues and now find that my stomach turns when I think of all the wasted time I spent on this ridiculous crush.

My H was upset by my crush but as he was also aware of the issues we had and had read up on MB principals he understood how to support me in braking the fantasy and appreciated my honesty when I told him about the crush.

I am sharing my experience so hopefully you can see that the advice you are given on here has been spot on.

Start with telling your H the truth and seek further help on here to have a good decent marriage that is way better than any crush fantasy you can ever have.

Editing: No, I stand corrected. It is NOT a good idea. This man has not responded to the poster's interest and may have no idea that she is infatuated with him.

Hey guys, I am sympathetic to those of you who have deep personal or religious reasons for invoking the hopelessness of my tainted marriage. Still, it is unhelpful. Please remember that I don't have a time machine that can take me back ten years. I was twenty years old and ignorant, that's about all I can say.

All I can really do is work with what exists now.

NB28, thanks for that! Yes, La-la Land sounds about right. Ugh! I blocked ol Schmuck on my FB. Feels good. I didn't know you could do that. Still screwing up the courage to tell DH; we've had such a nice evening so far it seems a shame to mess it up. He brought home a flyer for a marriage-retreat thing (I can't believe we're seriously GOING to one of those dorky things!) and arranging some childcare for that weekend.

I am not sharing my "deep personal or religious reasons;" I have shared a FACT with you that is the clinical experience of Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders. You should consider it very helpful to listen to his experience, no?

How does being in denial help you?


And all we can do is be honest with you and tell you the truth, that Dr Harley has never figured out how to turn such marriages around. He always fails. Did you listen to the radio clip I posted?

Entrenched in all waywards is selfishness and entitlement. When one is selfish and entitled they don't meet emotional needs.

Your affairage is built on this selfishness and entitlement. Until that is addressed, eradicated, and passes the smell test your marriage will limp along like it is and you will most likely drop your boundaries and commit more adultery.

The key is to clean up your side of the fence because you can't control your husband.

When you recognize your own selfishness and entitlement for what it is, then and only then can you begin to recover yourself. This my friend will finally make you a better person, and a much better wife.

I don't believe anybody has said any such thing.



Some have warned you that you have a tough road ahead of you. Some have warned that Dr. Harley hasn't been able to save a affairage. Some have offered to help anyway.

You should take all that very seriously and get movin' on changin' things. Sitting around naval gazing isn't going to get you anywhere.

Have you told your husband yet?

You don't have much respect for marriage, do you.

No, it is not helpful if he doesn't know how to help.

I was not aware that the method was so incompatible with my marital situation, and am now sorry I asked. I shall seek help elsewhere. Thanks for your time.

Shmoopy, what is personal or religious about statistics?

I just want you to know that if you want to keep your marriage happy and thriving (that's what you said you were here for) you need every advantage you can get. I've suggested several; haven't seen you follow the advice, yet.

Did you listen to the radio clip? There's some genuine help, there...

So, when things get tough, you bail?

I agree! I wish you the best...

Let's put it this way: you have a cancer, and you read about a great oncologist, and you go talk to him and he says, "well, I know a lot about cancer but YOUR kind, I've never quite figured out!" maybe you are reluctant to take his disciples' advice about bloodletting. Since you are going to die anyway.

That said! Getting ol Schmuck off my Facebook does feel pretty good-- it'll keep me from ruminating by at least half-- and while my husband fell asleep thirty minutes ago, we did have a pretty nice evening, lots of gentle talk and playing with the kids. So maybe I'll just have to implement things one thing at a time.

I still find the concept of Radical Honesty very appealing and worthy, but I just can't get behind a guru who more or less says my marriage is doomed from the start. According to the good doc, it probably shouldn't have even lasted five years, and still we are here. So! Good night and best wishes.

Wow. Dr. H is right. Waywards who marry really don't want to do the work, do they.

Lightbulb moment. Here I am, trying to help someone who doesn't want to help themselves...