I remember bowling being mentioned earlier. Have you given that any thought? It can be a lot of fun. You can be silly with it, doing granny bowling. Make sure that if you are winning, make it obvious that you are throwing a gutter ball.

Maybe there are some interesting things that you could read up on and have at a ready for some convo starters. Maybe things like crazy laws still in effect around the country. Or some funny incidents that happened to OTHER people. These topics would seem "safe" and you could lighten the mood for both of you. You could become the resident Cliff Clavin

I'm looking forward to the better days. I think WW avoided me today. I sent her two texts, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. She didn't respond to either of them. She dropped off the kids after school so I thought I'd say hi. Every time I see her I get tons of anxiety. I asked her how her day went and she was pretty short with me. Back to fogville I guess. Looking forward to tomorrow. I do want to ask her how she would like to start moving in the direction of recovery. Maybe I won't. She probably isn't ready yet.

GJM, I've been reading your thread. I'm not a marine, bit I'm Navy. I know how how strong on the inside you are. Keep up the effort. You made massive deposits the other day when you had lunch. Keep trying to do just that. She didn't know it, but that was a date and you had IC with her. Dont bring up the moving in thing, but keep up with meeting alone with her for IC. She fell in love with you once, she'll do it again with the effort and resilience I know you have in you.

IP,
Thanks for posting. I will continue to do what I've been doing. I'm going to take this next week and try to relax as much as possible so I can get my head right. I have to keep reminding myself that it's a marathon not a sprint.

I dropped my kids off with my W and not even an hour later, DS11 texts me asking to pick him and DS8 up because WW was shoving DS 11 around. I asked her what was going on and she says he got an attitude so she hit him and he hit her back. She then got in his face and was shoving him saying hit me again and see what happens. Every time she has the kids, something always happens. Then her resentment towards me builds stronger. At the same time I am hoping she realizes that it's her fault that these things are happening.

How did you handle the correction for this? there's going to be a lot of fallout that I think W is not handling at all. Hang in there. you are now refereeing and single parenting.

I didn't do anything. I told WW I was here if she needed to talk. I also explained to my son that I would document it (he asked me too) and told him we would do things the legal way. He was mad at first, but he's ok now.

She hit him in what way?

Plan A or not, but pushing an eleven year old around is not appropriate behavior for an adult. And your other kids saw this?

He didn't tell me where or how she hit him. She admitted to shoving him though.

Are you going to go get them tomorrow or are they staying?

They're staying. They're headed to her sister's baby shower and her BIL will be hanging out with the kids. He's a good guy.

Your sons actions are a result of your wife and of her moving out. Unless something takes place this is going to get worse. You need to talk to her and not over the phone about this issue. Tell her due to his age he knows what is taking place and it is getting to him. You just need to lay it on the line to her, if she blames you as she has done in the past, again remind her this is fallout from what she has done. The least you need to do is to get into family counseling. It is going to get worse due to his resentment if something does not change.

Hi Edd,

Thanks for posting. I agree with you. I will make an appointment next week to get us all into counseling. WW and I have had these talks already. That's the reason she said she would never forgive me for involving the kids. I remind her that it's her doing not mine. I've also let my son know that when he is ready he should tell his mom how he feels and that he needs both parents. I'm hoping my W will come to her senses one day.

My initial reaction is that you should tell your son that it is wrong for anyone to hit someone else, and that if he is hit, and afraid, he should call the police. I am angered for your son.

I don't know what I would do if that were my son being hit by his other parent. ARGH, I am too angry to see straight and advise you correctly, so I will let others do the advising.

Me, too, and you earlier suggestion of the son calling the police came to mind as well. It's almost as though he's old enough to decide that for himself?

I don't know and would defer to those with more experience in such matters.

I think GJM, you should simply, firmly but calmly tell WW "DS11 is not to be physically disciplined again. I have zero tolerance for that as his father. If it were to happen again, I would document it and report it."

Not with disrespect but clear intention. She will be forewarned of GJM's stance on it and expectations as the coparent.

I think you're both right. My son needs to know not to hit his mom and she needs to know not to be physical with the children. In my mind I want my W to see the difficulties of single parenting and not rescue her.

GJM I can tell you from personal experience you must protect your children at all costs. A wayward is extremely dangerous.

When they have the mentality of a 19 year old, they parent like a 19 year old. That means they think of "I" first, social life second, selfish desires third, ... , somewhere down on the list parenting.

Your wife cannot and will not parent like the 33 year old she is because her emotions and reality just isn't mature.

Please keep that in mind when trying to deal with her. There is absolutely no responsible parenting, and the likelihood is extremely high she will continue to deteriorate on parenting the longer she remains wayward.

Tough

Even if you state your position against physical discipline and she heeds you, she will have other types of friction aplenty with the kids. It is just going to happen due to her selfish choices.

Gunny, here is the thing. And you really need to not let this go past this before standing up and laying down the law.

First, you need to let your son know thathe WILL show his mother respect. That he had better NEVER lay his hands on his mother. Do this when she brings them back...in front of her. I dont care how she is acting or what she is doing...that is his mother, and a son is to show her respect, even if she doesnt warrant it.

Later, you can sit him down and help him through his feelings. And let him know that you understand his feelings about what his mother is doing. And that you are there for him. But, that you cannot allow him to be disrespectful. That he is free to tell his mother how he feels, but in a respectful manner. But he should NEVER hit his mother.

Look, no matter how this ends, she is still his mother. And on day, whether you two are together or not...she will most likely want to be the mother they deserve again. Right now, you need to protect that.

Second thing is to let your wife know in PRIVATE, after she has seen you discipline your son...that you will not tolerate her hitting him. Now, I have no problem with spankings...but usually those are for much younger children. There are better ways to get to an 11 year old. So, tell her that she is not to hit them, shove them, etc. And if your kids are disrespectful, you want her to let you know immediately so the two of you can parent them.

The last thing to tell her is this: the kids are spiralling because of her actions. They are upset, hurt and angry and they blame her. By showing her disciplining your son, she will see that you arent "piling on" her...but that she is going to have to wake up and see the destruction she is spreading, not only on you...but on those kids.

As Steve Harley told me once...the best assets for your family and marriage are those kids. Even with her anger toward you...there is no way a good mother cant see their kids and what is happening with them. Her seeing you disciplining them will hep her see that you are not turning them from her...that it is she that is turning them from her. And rightfully so.

Have this conversation NOT in a heated or adversarial tone. Although she may raise her voice, you just say "Mrs. GJM...settle down. Listen, I am not going to allow the kids to be disrespectful towards you or to you. But, you are going to have to start looking around and realizing what is happening here. I am trying to hold this family together...but it is cracking because of all of this. It isnt too late to turn this around...but we are both getting a taste of where this is headed if we dont get our act together."

Now, look at my statement. Did I say "You did this"?? Did I say "You get your act together"?? Nope. Why? Because right now, with her in this position where she is thinking about possibly coming back, being adversarial will chase her away. When you say "we", she will know who is actually causing this. I am not saying you take responsibility for her actions. Notice I didnt do that in my statement. I said we had to get our act together. And that is a true statement.

The other reason to say "we" is for her to picture and feel herself as a part of "we." By you defending her in regards to your son's disrespectful behavior, she will feel closer to you. By you talking about "we" when deciding on solutions and moving forward, she doesnt feel like an outsider...but like your partner.

You are going to have to learn how to talk to someone in the fog. Direct light in the fog almost always gets scattered, right? Same here. You are going to have to chose your words carfully, where you are being turthful...but doesnt cause her to raise her barriers.

Ask questions if you dont understand on this. But I think the two things here have to happen immediately...for all of the reasons I stated.