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I disagree, moving away from Minnesota IS a violation of POJA if I can't make myself enthusiastically agree to it. No, staying is a demand because you forced him to move there. You demanded that you live there, forced him to move, and are demanding that he stay. You don't need enthusiastic agreement to stop a demand and undo a violation of POJA. So you see my problem: We have no locations that we can both enthusiastically agree to. What do we do from here? Should we violate POJA to be together? Is this a recipe for disaster? Does this mean we are incompatible? It doesn't mean you're incompatible. It means you are refusing to negotiate and are refusing to undo a violation of POJA. You are refusing to consider living anywhere else. You are insisting he live with your demand.
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So when the POJA says never do anything without enthusiastic agreement of both mates what it means in tough cases is that one of you needs to 'get enthusiastic'. No. It means you do nothing until you are both enthusiastic. You spend that time persuading each other, and allowing yourself to be persuaded, but if you cannot come to an agreement, then you do nothing indefinitely. They should never have left St. Louis. They should still be there, because there was no enthusiastic agreement to move from St. Louis to Minnesota.
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Was it a violation of POJA if he willingly went with his wife to Minnesota 3 years ago, and has "grown to hate" it there during those 3 years?
Bh-me-45
xWW- 45
Married 15years, together for 20
served D papers on 6/2/09
Divorce final 12/19/2010
Custody of our 3 kids
DD 12
DS 10
DD 7
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So when the POJA says never do anything without enthusiastic agreement of both mates what it means in tough cases is that one of you needs to 'get enthusiastic'. No. It means you do nothing until you are both enthusiastic. You spend that time persuading each other, and allowing yourself to be persuaded, but if you cannot come to an agreement, then you do nothing indefinitely. They should never have left St. Louis. They should still be there, because there was no enthusiastic agreement to move from St. Louis to Minnesota. Ok, but now what? Because see to ME (but we all know I don't know anything) it seems like she should suck it up and go with her dh....leave and cleave. Get enthusiastic. In practical terms is that much different than 'allow yourself to be persuaded'?
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Thanks! I guess this is the answer. Since I can't make my husband "get enthusiastic" about staying, I will have to see if I can get enthusiastic about leaving. I am currently in the process of trying because if not, I will lose my husband. If I can't "get enthusiastic" any ideas of what to do then? I'm just afraid that I will not be able to get enthusiastic (or not truly be enthusiastic) and moving with him will further weaken a relationship that has always been a bit rocky. I may start to resent him about this.
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So when the POJA says never do anything without enthusiastic agreement of both mates what it means in tough cases is that one of you needs to 'get enthusiastic'. [/quote]
Married since 2005.
BW 28 (me)
WH 29
No children
D-Day 3/5/12
Caller on radioshow 4/10/12
Dark Plan B, 5/3/12
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Was it a violation of POJA if he willingly went with his wife to Minnesota 3 years ago, and has "grown to hate" it there during those 3 years? Her first post said he 'reluctantly agreed.' That doesn't sound enthusiastic to me.
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Was it a violation of POJA if he willingly went with his wife to Minnesota 3 years ago, and has "grown to hate" it there during those 3 years? He didn't willingly go. She said he reluctantly moved to Minnesota.
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Ok, but now what? Because see to ME (but we all know I don't know anything) it seems like she should suck it up and go with her dh....leave and cleave. Get enthusiastic.
In practical terms is that much different than 'allow yourself to be persuaded'? "Allow yourself to be persuaded" doesn't mean "Suck it up" though. It means listening to the other side, and allowing the possibility that the other side has a good idea. And maybe you will be persuaded and enthusiastic. She doesn't need to suck it up. But it is also not true that Minnesota is the ONLY option that will make her happy. She's allowing that as the ONLY option, though. She's refusing to do two separate things: 1. Refusing to right the wrong, and undo her violation of POJA by forcing them to move to Minnesota against her husband's wishes. 2. Refusing to negotiate -- which includes brainstorming and the willingness to be persuaded to her husband's ideas.
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**edit**
Last edited by Fireproof; 01/20/12 05:49 PM. Reason: TOS disrupting thread
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Also, my husband knows how difficult it would be for me to move but he doesn't know that I'm questioning whether I'm going to move or not. I've already reluctantly agreed but am now in the process of convincing myself this is the right thing to do in our relationship.
Married since 2005.
BW 28 (me)
WH 29
No children
D-Day 3/5/12
Caller on radioshow 4/10/12
Dark Plan B, 5/3/12
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"Allow yourself to be persuaded" doesn't mean "Suck it up" though. It means listening to the other side, and allowing the possibility that the other side has a good idea. And maybe you will be persuaded and enthusiastic. QFT The question isn't, "Can I be enthusiastic about living in Austin (or any other place)?" It's, "HOW can I be enthusiastic about living in Austin (or any other place)?" What would it take to make another city a good place to live? See your family once a month? Talk to them on the phone every day? Spend 20 hours/week UA time with your husband so you don't miss your family so much? Travel x weekends per month to see all the good sites within 100 miles of your new hometown? Get a puppy? Take up hang gliding together? Be creative!
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I always tell my husband, "I would live in Nunavut if it means keeping our family together" (which is the Arctic territory here).
Having been in a similar situation (not the same, but similar), I can say it was only the desire to build our marriage together and keep our family unit intact that helped us survive the first difficult summer after our big move.
The drive to sustain a marriage/family must more important than friends, other family, jobs, etc. People who put friends/family/career before marriage end up in the divorced statistics.
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"Allow yourself to be persuaded" doesn't mean "Suck it up" though. It means listening to the other side, and allowing the possibility that the other side has a good idea. And maybe you will be persuaded and enthusiastic. QFT The question isn't, "Can I be enthusiastic about living in Austin (or any other place)?" It's, "HOW can I be enthusiastic about living in Austin (or any other place)?" What would it take to make another city a good place to live? See your family once a month? Talk to them on the phone every day? Spend 20 hours/week UA time with your husband so you don't miss your family so much? Travel x weekends per month to see all the good sites within 100 miles of your new hometown? Get a puppy? Take up hang gliding together? Be creative Now THIS makes sense. But honestly it comes back to she needs to decide if she wants to be with her dh or with her FOO. Of course she isn't discussing what about Austin would make her happy because she isn't being honest with her dh.
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It's true, I shouldn't have married a man from Cuba if I wanted to live in Minnesota. He also shouldn't have married a woman from Cuba if he wanted to live in a warm climate. That's not very helpful to say in this case though. I'm asking for advice and that to me says, "It was a mistake to get married in the first place, you are incompatible, so just leave the relationship."
Married since 2005.
BW 28 (me)
WH 29
No children
D-Day 3/5/12
Caller on radioshow 4/10/12
Dark Plan B, 5/3/12
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It's true, I shouldn't have married a man from Cuba if I wanted to live in Minnesota. He also shouldn't have married a woman from Cuba if he wanted to live in a warm climate. That's not very helpful to say in this case though. I'm asking for advice and that to me says, "It was a mistake to get married in the first place, you are incompatible, so just leave the relationship." Well, that isn't quite what I was saying, but I can see it sounds negative. I guess more what I am saying, 'you married a man from Cuba so why are you so set on living in MN.'?
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This is very helpful, thank you! "Allow yourself to be persuaded" doesn't mean "Suck it up" though. It means listening to the other side, and allowing the possibility that the other side has a good idea. And maybe you will be persuaded and enthusiastic. QFT The question isn't, "Can I be enthusiastic about living in Austin (or any other place)?" It's, "HOW can I be enthusiastic about living in Austin (or any other place)?" What would it take to make another city a good place to live? See your family once a month? Talk to them on the phone every day? Spend 20 hours/week UA time with your husband so you don't miss your family so much? Travel x weekends per month to see all the good sites within 100 miles of your new hometown? Get a puppy? Take up hang gliding together? Be creative!
Married since 2005.
BW 28 (me)
WH 29
No children
D-Day 3/5/12
Caller on radioshow 4/10/12
Dark Plan B, 5/3/12
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And FTR, I am currently moving from the city I've been in my ENTIRE adult life (I'm 46) because my dh got a job in a new city. Granted it is only a bit more than a 2 hour move, but puts me 3 hours from my parents who I am very very close to. And it takes me out of the congregation that my son has been in his entire life.
It is just what has to be done.
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1. Are you willing to right the wrong of your POJA violation and move away from Minnesota?
2. Are you willing to brainstorm with your husband and decide on a place to live that will make you both happy?
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I agree, the drive to keep our marriage together should be our number one in life. I'm just having trouble beleiving that it's his number one priority too. What if it's not and I continue to get ultimatums and "I'm moving to _____" whether you are coming or not? What will be the next city he decides to move to (without my consent) and what if we have kids by then? I've lost some trust with my husband over this issue. It's true, I accepted his reluctant agreement to go to Minnesota but I never would have left to move to another city without him coming with. He decided to leave before I had agreed to come with and said he was leaving regardless of whether I agreed. This really hurt me and has made it harder for me to decide to follow him there. I always tell my husband, "I would live in Nunavut if it means keeping our family together" (which is the Arctic territory here).
Having been in a similar situation (not the same, but similar), I can say it was only the desire to build our marriage together and keep our family unit intact that helped us survive the first difficult summer after our big move.
The drive to sustain a marriage/family must more important than friends, other family, jobs, etc. People who put friends/family/career before marriage end up in the divorced statistics.
Married since 2005.
BW 28 (me)
WH 29
No children
D-Day 3/5/12
Caller on radioshow 4/10/12
Dark Plan B, 5/3/12
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