Hello all!
I am new to this forum but I have read "His needs, her needs" and the entire website of the basic concepts.
I have been attempting to begin applying these concepts to my life with my husband and have tried to recruit him as well.
Here is our main conflict:
We want to live in different cities. We currently live in northern Minnesota and have for 3 years. He reluctantly agreed to live here after we'd lived in Saint Louis, MO while I was in graduate school. I'm from Minnesota, I love it, and want to live by my parents, friends and in what I feel to be my home. He is from Cuba and I helped him immigrate to the US, where he has a few family members scattered around the country. He can't stand the cold in Minnesota and has come to even hate where we live because of the weather and lack of familiar culture. He has decided he is moving to Austin, TX, has gotten a permanent job there and is leaving in about 2-3 weeks. He also has a relative in Texas that he�s somewhat close with but with whom I don�t have much in common. We couldn't come to an agreement on this one (let alone an enthusiastic agreement) and I'm having trouble applying the policy of joint agreement.
Some background: We have our differences for sure and have had lots of the typical conflicts in marriage, nothing major. To sum up our main conflicts: We have trouble negotiating without using Love busters, lack of good conversation, I have trouble filling his need for sex (he wants to more often than me), we have differing recreational interests (but find some common ones), differing focus in life (I�m focused on stability and having a family, whereas he�s focused on starting a business and adventure), and we have conflicts with domestic support (he expects me to do most of it, I expect him to do his part). We have been married for 6 years, I'm 28, he's 29 and we have no children yet but I really want them. I truly love him but am having trouble trusting him now that he�s made this decision to leave. He wants me to come with him but it�s upsetting that he would leave without knowing if I�m coming for sure. He will very seldom talk to me about conflicts when I ask him to and will occasionally listen when I tell him about Dr. Harley�s concepts but doesn�t do much active participation.
I don�t know if I will go with him. I love him and want the relationship to continue but am having doubts about whether giving up so much for him is worth it. I will be alone there with him in Texas (no friends or family there) and my fear is that he will do this again about a major decision without my consent on the issue. How do I trust him again after this? How do I get him to talk to me? I think Dr. Harley�s concepts would use work for us if he would only try to use them to but he has showed an utter lack of interest and even a resistance to even hearing about them.

I'm sure others with more experience will chime in soon.

I will preface this by saying it is absolutely wrong what he doing (up & moving away). But...

One thing that strikes me, as someone who has been in his position, is that you want to be in YOUR home, your family, your friends, your culture, your language - despite his reluctance. It sounds as if you being near your roots is far more important than for him - but that isn't fair to him either, isn't it?

At any point in the past few years, did you guys discuss a "compromise" location?? What was your "life plan" after he was to come to the US?

I have given up my language, culture, friends, and family for my husband too - it is exceptionally difficult but a choice I made and my husband is more important to me. That being said, he at least agreed to move close to a major city so that I can still occasionally meet/see people in my language/meet other mom friends easier.

I see a lack of compromising or coming to an agreement on BOTH sides here.

If you are trying to recruit him, how can you do it when you don't apply the POJA? The POJA requires ENTHUSIASTIC agreement.

Even if this arrangement was made in the past, you can always go back and say it was wrong for me to go through with this when your agreement was reluctant.

Explain that you are ready and willing to negotiate for a place where you both can enthusiastically agree upon. Apologize to him for subjecting him to live in a place where he is miserable.

So he has basically taken your approach. One thoughtless action follows another.

You can't stop him, but you can ask him to put together a list of places where he might consider living. You do the same, and then see if and where your lists intersect.
If we were to apply the logic you used in suggesting MN, that would be fine, right?

Hopefully, you can see this isn't the way to go. It wasn't when you chose it, and it's not for him either.

However, he's hurt now, and your task will be to find a way to stop the hurt and finding a place where you both are satisfied.

It looks like he hasn't been happy in MN. It looks like both you are looking for your individual happy in things outside one another.

The question is, how do you acknowledge that accepting his reluctant agreement is what got you here, and apologizing to him without simply entering into an agreement where you are reluctant?

I think you start with brainstorming. The list of places each of you makes, where do they overlap?

Dr. Harley talks about a situation similar to this in his book "Love Busters." It is towards the back of the book, under the title "The Unhappy Wanderer." Read it.

The wife moved to make her husband happy, but it was a reluctant agreement and she was emotionally traumatized.

Dr. Harley advised them to move back to their original home town.



You moved to Minnesota with a reluctant agreement from your husband. He is, understandably, distraught. Since POJA has been violated, you need to correct the decision ASAP -- meaning, you cannot stay in Minnesota.

It doesn't mean you necessarily need to move to Austin. But you do need to find a place to live that BOTH of you would be happy.

Thank you for your thoughful replies! I admit that it was wrong of me to pressure him to move to Minnesota, and I've expressed this to him. We didn't have a plan of where we would live when he came to the US 6 years ago, we knew that we didn't agree on it and hoped it would "work itself out." He left Cuba and came anyway because his main objective was to get out of Cuba and he also wanted to be with me. We had to get married for him to leave Cuba but we are in love so we went ahead and did it despite the fact that we hadn't had the luxury of figuring everything out yet. We've now been married 6 years and together for 8.
Needless to say, it has become the largest problem in our relationship and logistically difficult for obvious reasons.
We have brainstormed and the only thing I have been able to enthusiastically agree to has been to stay in Minnesota. The bottom line is that I don't want to move AT ALL. This is the only option that I'm truly ENTHUSIASTIC about. He is willing to move to several different new cities (all over 1000 miles away), because he doesn't really have a "home" here but that doesn't help me much because I don't want to leave my home and my parents.

Thanks for replying. You have a very similar experience as my husband. We are both guilty of not following the POJA on this one because there is no common ground on where to live. Hubby is miserable where I want to live and can't stay here. In order to be together, I need to reluctantly agree to move, which I've been leaning towards for quite some time. I'm worried though that having to violate POJA just to live in the same city together (no matter where we live) is a big mistake. Maybe this means we are not compatible and it's a big mistake to continue to make major violations of POJA to be together. He gave up his family and culture to come to the US and escape his country, not just to be with me. I think that's the major difference between you and my husband. He does love me, but I've always had trouble with having to marry him to be together at all. I didn't want that alterior motive to be there, but we had to get married to continue our relationship and that's what I chose.

And it is no longer an option because you forced him to move there from Saint Louis.

This breech of POJA must be undone. It cannot be undone by you staying in Minnesota.

Start brainstorming other options.

You are not violating POJA by moving away from Minnesota.
You forced him to move there. THAT was the violation.
STAYING in Minnesota is a violation of POJA.
You would be UNDOING the violation of POJA by moving to a place you are both happy with.

I would love to her Dr. Harley's opinion of this situation. Maybe you can email the radio show and ask for his help.

This is the part of POJA I've never understood. She has already said she will only be happy with MN. I don't see an answer.

Waiting with interest to see what the answer might be.

Dr. Harley gave his answer in his book Love Busters. I posted excerpts above.

Her insistance on living in Minnesota is a demand. She violated POJA by forcing her husband to move. Dr. Harley says when POJA has been violated, the violation must be undone as soon as possible. In this case, undoing the violation means moving away from Minnesota. He advised the couple in Love Busters to move back to their original hometown.

Respectful persuasion, step 4:

"Step 4: Give your spouse an opportunity to persuade you."

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5040_qa.html

Dr. Harley has reworded respectful persuasion in his more recent editions of Love Busters, so I'm not sure if this is still implicitly included or not, but respectful persuasion is a specific case of his four guidelines for successful negotiation.

"I will only be happy with this one option" is not respectful persuasion; it is a belief that will short-circuit negotiation and make it impossible. A better attitude to take is "I am willing to listen to your ideas and see if they might excite me as well."

So in this poster's case move back to St. Louis (I think I have that city right). But he has a job in Austin and is moving in 2 weeks. So how would that work?

Hopeful,

I suspect you are most "hopeful" that you can convince him to stay in Minnesota.

Since this is not going to happen (as he is willing to move away from his own wife after 3 years of being unhappy living in Minnesota), what would be your next best choice?

Because here you have a major problem: You have effectively told your husband that your(*singular) home & happiness is more important than "our"(the married couple) happiness. You have told him that you care so much more about being close to your family and friends in MN than even *compromise* with him, your own husband.

In a marriage, the happiness of your husband (or wife) comes before family and friends. Your husband's needs are not unreasonable.

Is Minnesota more important than him? Are you willing to end your marriage to stay in Minnesota? Because a marriage will not survive long with one spouse living in a far off state.

I agree. Marriage has to come before FOO and lifelong friends. I would go anywhere my dh wanted me to go. Enthusiastically. And we have only been married 1 year.

She said there are several cities he is willing to live in.
They need to brainstorm together and find a city they would both be happy in.
Right now, she is refusing to brainstorm by putting her foot down and saying "I will ONLY be happy HERE." She is demanding that he just live with the POJA violation. By leaving, he's letting her know that he will no longer live with her demand.

They don't HAVE to go to Austin just because he has a job there.
They don't HAVE to go back to St. Louis if they can find another place they are both happy with.

**EDIT**

I disagree, moving away from Minnesota IS a violation of POJA if I can't make myself enthusiastically agree to it.
So you see my problem: We have no locations that we can both enthusiastically agree to. What do we do from here? Should we violate POJA to be together? Is this a recipe for disaster? Does this mean we are incompatible?

He is feeling trapped in a situation that is making him distraught.
It will probably go a long way with him for him to hear that she is actually willing to consider living elsewhere.
It will probably go a long way with him for her to start brainstorming, and listening to what he would like to do.

It will be interesting to watch. I have a friend who was faced with an even more difficult decision in her marriage.