MM,

Thanks for posting as always. You're absolutely correct. I am going to do just that. I have said those words before and I will reemphasize to her what is happening and that we need to get our stuff together. I won't see them until Monday, but that's on my priority list. I'm thankful we eat dinner together every night. I asked her if she wanted to do something next weekend and she accepted.

All good! Keep it up.

And one note on my post...your son may feel he has no one after you discipline him. Afterall, he is right about his mother. And he is trying to defend his father.

But you need to, in private, talk to him once he is home and tell him that his feelings are justified. That you are hurting also. That you are with him in this, and will be there for him. Again, let him know that he is free to state his feelings to you and to his mom. But, the reason you disciplined him is that even in this, disrespect will not be tolerated!!

Also, this is a GREAT thing when it comes to court, if it gets to that point. Here she has been hitting and shoving your son. Your son has asked to live with you. And when you discipline him in front of your wife...and continue to show that you are the steady, responsible parent...but also have defended your wife as a parent...well, that judge is going to see this.

As always, document, document, document!!

One more note...so you understand what is happening here.

Recently, my oldest son (19) got an official letter from the NY Mets, showing interest in him (he is a college pitcher right now). He filled out all the parts of the attached questionaire that he knew, and then had me fill in the parts he didnt (medical history, etc).

An interesting part was where they asked who would be deciding if he signs if drafted. He said "my parents." Now while we have told him that it is HIS decision, the fact that he counts us as his closest advisors in this felt good!

But the other thing he posted, that actually saddened my wife, was when they asked who has had the most influence on his life and baseball career. He listed two people...his high school coach and me. He did not list his mother.

I believe this is because of what happened when she left the family to pursue the affair when he was about the age of your 11 year old. I know that deeply affected him...and I believe that because of what happened and the length of it...that he did pull back from his mother somewhat. And I think that there is a little separation even today.

My wife was hurt when she saw this. You see, my oldest is not mine biologically. I met my wife when he was 6 months old, and adopted him after we married. Most of his siblings dont even know this. And anyone around us that havent been told wouldnt know this. He of course does. The bio dad has never been around.

So, the fact that here is my son who is not mine biologically, expressing his feelings that I have been the biggest part of his life hurt her...as she overcame a lot to give birth to him and to decide to move forward as a single mother.

I feel her pain. And I wish it wasnt this way. But, unfortunately, it is the consequences of her poor decisions.

But during the time of all of the mess, I did not talk down their mom to them (except the first day I found out...when I exploded verbally...). And I had several occasions where my oldest acted out against his mom (he didnt hit her, but he did launch into her in a disrespectful way). At one point when this was happening right in front of me, I grabbed him by the shoulders, pressed him against the wall...got right in his face and made him understand that he would NEVER talk to his mother in such a disrespectful manner. The look in his eyes were as if I was betraying him.

Later that night, after my wife had left...I went up to his room and we discussed it. And we had pretty much the discussion I listed above. I wanted him to know that I was in his corner, that I did understand...but that there are just places we are not going to go in this.

So, you see....I have been there. Hopefully, for your wife's sake (and your kids), she will come to her senses soon so this can be overcome. Because she is leaving impressions in their personalities that will be lifelong.

Now that I have had some time to calm down, I am so glad that MM was here to post these thoughts. These are the things I was hoping you would do. While it is wrong for your wife to treat your 11YO that way, it was also wrong for your son to hit her. It's still your job to raise a decent and honourable man, so take the lessons where they present themselves.

I was abused as a child and although family members and school officals knew(even contact made to CPS) nothing was ever done. It was a horrible way to grow up and I vowed not to repeat that with my own children. I know that it's not the same extent here, but it is frightening to think about what could be happening to my children when they aren't with me, especially when they are with their wayward father.

Thank you for this Mortarman.

Although you and I have never met MM, we have the same qualities and beliefs. Our situations are closely related. It's almost scary, but I feel relief in some way. I offered to come over last night, but my wife declined. I was getting all second hand information. Had I been there, the outcome would have been different.

I was going through my email and found a draft I never sent to my wife and thought I would share it with you all since you all are such a big part of my life now. It made me cry reading it again. I never sent it because it was right before I found out about the affair.

Dearest *******,
I don't know where to begin because I feel like I've said a lot already. I don't want to keep on bugging you and I don't want you to feel bad because of the way I feel. I know you said you would put more effort into our marriage on Saturday also. So many things have happened to us in the 14 years that we have been together. We have both made mistakes and we've stuck together through them all. I am not here to throw anything in your face or make you relive any of the pain that has happened in the past. I want you to know that I love you with all of my heart and soul. I really do. I just feel abandoned. I feel alone and unappreciated. I feel like I'm not loved and I feel like I come last. I know I told you these things already. Here is what I am asking from you. I need to know that I'm important to you. I need to know that you will put me first in everything that you do. I need you to put more effort into my happiness. I believe that marriage should always be worked on and I've been feeling like you haven't been working on it. You refuse to seek help or ideas on how you can make me happy. You put all of your energy into the kids and the chores. Our sex life has been declining as well. We're lucky to have sex twice a week lately. And when we do, it's not romantic or passionate. I know that you are tired and you are busy. The whole family is. I think we have to work as a team to fix this. You said you would try harder to see me at lunch time and I have to be late to work in order to do that. I'm not asking for you to do it every day. I'm asking for you to make the effort to love me. That's all. Take time to tell me that you love me and that you miss me.

I feel like I've taken a back seat to your job, your workouts, the kids, and chores. I have been committed to this marriage and I have never sought out to find anyone to replace you or give me what you don't give me. I am a loyal person and the only person I want in my life is you. We need to foster our relationship and get back to laughing together and get our quality time back together. I need your help though. Our communication has declined as well and I'd like to talk more openly with you about good and bad. I think you are a great mother and I appreciate what you do for all of us. I have supported you in your job and I continue to support your efforts to be a trainer. I want to continue to support you in all that you do not resent what you are doing because it's making you tired and taking away my time. When you said you don't have a plan when the kids move out, I was blown away. You will be 42 when the last one is gone. You'll still be young. You cannot just live for the kids. In reality, I would love for you to rush home because you can't wait to see me. I know that I am not perfect. I know I have also been through my own challenges. I get through life knowing that I have you and with your love, anything is possible. It is what gives me strength. It makes me feel like I can do anything. As we go through life together, we will have times when we are disconnected or complacent in our marriage. That's why I feel it's so important that we always make time for each other and try to please each other and make each other happy. Little things like saying "hey I'm going to the commissary" or "I'm about to workout" mean a lot to me and make me feel like I'm part of your life.

You may not think much of it, but the smallest gestures that you do for me or to me make a huge difference to me. Sitting on my lap or holding my hand; kissing me for no reason, text messages or phone calls. These things all mean a lot to me. It shows that you are thinking of me and that you love me. I love to feel wanted. I enjoy making love to you. I love it when you look at me. If there's anything that I can do for you, please, please let me know. Tell me your feelings and goals. Tell me what you would like me to do more of. Tell me how I can make you happier.

The last thing I would like to say is in regards to the kids. I ask that you are on my side no matter what the issue is and I will be on yours as well. Please make the kids start doing more for them selves. DD12 acts like she is entitled to everything. I think she needs to participate more in the family and learn to cook, clean and iron her own little areas. DS11 also needs to participate more. We bought them their own laundry baskets so that they can do their own laundry. It would make things easier on you, which would in turn make more time for us. I hope this email isn't overwhelming. I'm sorry if it is. The kids will be better off if you and I are strong and put each other first. I think I have rambled enough for now. Please don't take this in a negative way. I am just talking about my feelings and communicating with you. I love you so much.

And then I found out why I was having to write that letter....

It seems as though my W has started ignoring me over the past several days since telling me she loved and missed me. I saw her yesterday and we talked some, but when it comes to communicating through texts, she has stopped responding. I don't know what to do.

No expectations.

Text her occasionally with no expectations she will respond.
Etc.

Plan A is not for weaklings. It is tough stuff.

I get that, but I find it strange that she would all of a sudden stop communicating with me through text. Especially after what she said the other day. I guess I'm looking for answers and not understanding what's happening. There was more communication when things were really bad.

I really do hate to ask this (because I know how badly you want to work things out) but do you think there could be another rooster in the hen house?

Perhaps what she said the other day was a ploy to get you to let your guard down a little bit, an emotional bone so to speak.

Plan A with NO EXPECTATIONS(as you have heard dozens and dozens of times) AND without trying to figure out the musings of a wayward. That is crazy-making.

It is possible that her feelings coming to the surface have made her want to pull away from you because she is afraid, or uncomfortable. I was actually told during my Plan A that the more uncomfortable that my WH was, the better targeted my Plan A had become. It could be that, and it could be something else all together.

Plan A isn't easy, and one of the hardest things is to do it with no expectations. You're doing a GREAT job. Keep it up, no matter what she does.

It's possible

I will keep the Plan A up. I don't want to over pursue her or give her too much space. It's tough to balance how much contact to have.

Hopefully it's just this

Actually, you shouldn't even be thinking this. It could be this, it could be that she has underwear that were too tight, who knows with a wayward?

GJM, it IS a balance, and it is a balance just as it is when you are first dating someone. The advantage you have is that you already know what works for YOUR WW. You know what things she likes to do, you know TONNES about her.

I don't know what to do.

Yes, you do. You continue to "Plan A" her until you know that your LB$ is approaching zero, and then you cut over to "Plan B".

Keep in mind that, while one person can ruin a marriage, no one person can heal a marriage. If WW petulantly decides to ride her snit into the ground, well.....the best thing you can do is get off before she hits!

You're doing it. Keep doing what you're doing. Stay steady and consistent, and know that your actions have nothing to do with hers. Don't try to figure your WW out. NO EXPECTATIONS, G.

Ok, thanks guys.

Hello GJM,

I sort of feel now that you are feeling a push/pull regarding the advice you are receiving here vis-a-vis your own decision on how to proceed. I have seen the name Mortorman mentioned here with respect, and now that he has offered his support, I feel that you're pretty lucky. You're also fortunate in the advice from NG and Marital - contintue with your Plan A - but don't weigh yourself down with expectations. They sort of remind me of linebackers, who wait in the weeds, and at the opportune time they zing the opposing QB with an interception or a QB sack to change the complexion of the game. Obviosly, there is no 'opposing QB', but their comments I think are meant to introduce reality.

Believe it or not, this may be a short window for you to focus on yourself, to strive to be the best you can be, as you are doing, and again with no expectations regarding your W's reaction. I feel that this is sometimes difficult to do when spouses live together day-to-day because in a status quo it is tempting to take the relationship for granted and allow the vision of happy, future life together to become dulled and fragmented. Separation is extremely difficult, as I well know. In my case I know that we both feel how much we miss and love each other. In your case, she will either realize how much she really does treasure you and her M to you, and put aside her pride, or she will continute to be self-centered, through no fault of yours. Realistically, you do not have control over this, only your steady influence.

Tom

Gunny, all of these folks offering you help here are exactly right.

What did I tell you in one of my first posts to you? What is YOUR mission?

It isnt worrying abut your wife, your marriage, what she is doing, etc. If you sit here going "I wonder what is going through her head..." you are going to be completely frustrated and it might turn your brain to mush.

Do you REALLY want to get inside the brain of a wayward? Really? Do you want to be able to make sense out of nonsense? Because guess what...you cant!!! Ask any former waywards on here ( a few have been posting to you). Ask them what it was like to be them when the only rational thing working near their brain was their brain stem. All that grey matter inside their cranium was doing was turning into a gelatinous goo. Seriously, ask them!! Ask them...looking back now...if they truly understand who they were and what they were doing. I can tell you, after all this time involved with this, one of the things I have heard a bunch of times from FWSs is that they look back and scratch their heads and go: "What in the world was wrong with me?"

If she was drunk, and said "I love you"...would you pay heed to it? If she was drunk and said "I hate you", would you pay heed to it? Or would you wait until she was sober, and then let her tell you her true feelings?

Again, I understand. It is natural to run this through. You are trying to know what the "enemy" is thinking and plan your "attacks" appropriately. The problem is, if you are listening to her, you will most likely not get the REAL truth!!

That is why you have MB! The Harleys KNOW what Waywards do and why they do them. And what the options are. And in all of those possibilities, many will end up in a renewed marriage if you do what yo uare supposed to do. And in some, you wont. Bt as I have told you, in either case...your path is the same. Your tactics are the same.

I'll close with this...when one person in the relationship has a skull full of Jello...isnt it incumbent upon the other to be steady as a rock, to stick to a steady plan? Absolutely, if there is any chance of saving the marriage.

I will not guarantee your marriage will be saved. But using this plan, the odds are in your favor...not hers. Whether she wants to admit it or not...if she is ever going to have the marriage she deserves and your kids need...then she is dependent upon YOU.

Remember, we are to love our wives like Christ loves the church. Which means, Christ died for us while we still treated Him like crap, abused Him...and some outright hated Him. And still He went. And then we woke up one day, and realized what He did for us. And we fell to our knees...sorry for our abuse of Him.

And thankful He did not give up on us.

Christian men say they want to be like Jesus. Well, welcome to His world.