First, MIL will have to let Mirabelle know that she will not disrespect her again. An apology would probably do wonders.

Then they should see his family only when Mirabelle feels ready. If she is the least bit uncomfortable, it will not be good for their marriage.

I lived in Germany too. My experience is that they were a warm people, and very polite. MIL's disrespect should not be blamed on culture.

The "ideal" state is something the poster and her H would agree upon, enthusiasticly. The ideal state can also be no contact with their parents, if that is what their marriage requires. The ideal state is poja'ed state.

Way too often we settle for compromises, and somehow think that parents are above all rules because they are our parents. My parents, for example, have always taken advantage of this and the very moment we allow it. We are to blame for this not them.

Thanks for all the good advice, Wannabophim, Prisca, and Mrs_Recon6mo. My H and I are hoping that when H clearly defines the boundaries to MIL, she'll realise what a serious situation this is. For a while I wondered whether she actually cared about her son either but as things got more and more difficult in the last year, it became clear that she really does want him in her life (and the kids, with whom she is as warm as she can be). She also said that she's heard from other people in her village of cases where the DIL "forces" the son to reject his family and that she's afraid that will happen to her. So I think it's possible that she will respond appropriately to the letter H has written to her, in which he explains how upset he is about her excluding behaviour towards me and her spiteful comments about me, which hurt his feelings. He concludes that he will continue not have contact with them until he is sure that he will not be exposed to this again. He wants her to show him that she recognises the part she has played in this mess, that she's not a victim.

However, there is another element at play here that could mean things go further awry after the letter is sent. That's SIL. SIL lives in the same village, is always at her parents' house, and is a very jealous and tricky person. She's jealous of her brother and furious with me for having the nerve to rebuke her. She did apologise to me last year (7 months after I told her I could not accept her behavior and that she had to apologise before our families could continue to interact) but it was clearly forced out of her by her H, my H, and various other people. If SIL is still undermining the situation, things could go bad after H sends the letter. After all, having her brother out of the picture might be exactly what she wants. I wouldn't put anything past her.

I wrote MIL at the end of last year that I no longer wanted contact with her after she told H for the third time that she does not consider me as part of her family. At present, this is not negotiable. I can't see that I can ever feel comfortable in that family again.

I agree with Prisca, it's nothing to do with culture. I am Dutch-Australian, the Dutch and German cultures are not too far apart. I think MIL is simply an extremely introverted person who cannot relate to adults (kids and pets, yes). She is abrasive, she lacks empathy. For example, SIL's H complained recently to H that when his brother gave SIL a present of some special expensive green tea that took him ages to find, MIL said (in front of the brother), "Oh that stuff is just ghastly, I can't understand why anyone would want to drink that stuff." It's kind of funny sometimes but yes, it causes harm. Her middle child, my BIL, can't stand her and only visits to see his father.

Another problem is that she (and her H) are also spoiled and self-centred, they have this sense of entitlement and perhaps superiority because her H was the village doctor and his patients adored him. Every Christmas, his patients would leave brandy, or legs of ham, or chocolates at their door. MIL and FIL just never had to make much of an effort. Still today, their friends always visit them, they never visit their friends. They just wouldn't think about it. I think that's why there was never any reciprocity to all my presents - they appreciated it, but didn't realise that I would like to see some sign of this appreciation.

This is why it would have been handy if H had just simply said many years ago, "Hey, family, wife is making a big effort here, I'm not impressed that you're not making a bigger effort yourself, you need at a minimum to say thank you."

I actually blame myself and H more for this whole stupid thing than them. They are who they are, we should have drawn boundaries that would have protected everyone's relationships (including H and his mum's relationship). H had a particular responsibility in this because when I tried to address it afew years back with a letter, nothing changed for the better, in fact the letter just sowed the seeds for the horrible conflict between me and SIL last year. And if none of this had happened, I might never have known that my MIL does not actually see me as part of her family. Hindsight is 20-20, isn't it?

I did actually accept the lack of reciprocity, although I was annoyed by it and the fact that we didn't get any help when we came (although I never said anything about this), but what I could not accept was my SIL's rudeness. Then the fact that MIL immediately took SIL's side against me made it clear that I am and will always be an outsider to her, despite me knowing her for 13 years and always having been very supportive of her and having tried hard to include her in our lives. Then she cemented that knowledge by literally saying that she didn't consider me as part of her family. And then she repeated it. Twice.

We're not in a hurry to send off H's letter. It's triggering me, although it is helping to talk on the forum about it and to read all your comments. I'm worried about the outcomes, that MIL will not respond appropriately, and/or that trouble with SIL will flare again. I cannot have any more trouble of this nature in my life anymore. If there is yet one more issue, we will be forced to take the frankly awful option of H not seeing them again. That will make him, and me, very sad.

If we had known of MB many years ago, our MIL/FIL situation might be quite different from the sad state it is in now. Our sitch is very similar to yours. My MIL criticized me constantly, then she started in on our daughter. H just tuned her out and I, under a mistaken notion of what it means to "honor one's parents," put on a pleasant face in front of MIL/FIL, but over the years I seethed inwardly more and more and began to literally hate her. I kept it inside, always courteous to her. I respected my FIL less and less; he was always a mild man, and was not one to approach his W and tell her she was destroying relationships. I also respected my H much less because of his inability to protect his own immediate family (Us.)

My MIL even criticized me constantly to our daughter, which made my D very upset. She didn't know how to handle an adult doing this and trying to be respectful toward that adult at the same time.

What WE should have done is to draw those boundaries years ago, "Beyond this you shall not pass." If she insisted on criticizing, then she would be out of our lives. The hope would be that in time, she would miss us and her granddaughter and repent. We would have allowed her back in. Instead, my H just tuned her out and we allowed her poor behavior to continue unabated.

So the result thirty years later? I am completely withdrawn from her and want nothing to do with her. During visits in the past couple of years, I make sure I'm at work most of the time and H takes care of them. Our D and her children visit a little only from obligation, nothing more. MIL will never have the opportunity to repent because she has Alzheimer's now. It is truly tragic how she destroyed the relationships, and WE LET HER by not instilling boundaries.

I don't believe a strong boundary is a punishment. It's a way to protect your own family from a destructive person. And it's possibly a way to bring that destructive person back to repentance and restore the broken relationship.

If we had it to do all over again, my H says he would speak to them in person and tell them what our problem with them was. He would tell them kindly but firmly that he was protecting his family from their destructive influence. They would not be seeing any one of us until MIL called and apologized and completely stopped the criticizing. And then we would do a Plan B, except for birthday cards and a Christmas card, I guess. The idea would be to bring peace to our own lives and a possible restoration someday to the relationship.

My H only saw his part in this in the last few years and realizes now that he should have exercised the "extraordinary care" of the marriage relationship by protecting me from his family. He deeply regrets that now.

Your post really resonated with me, LongWayFromHome. I know that where you are now is where we were heading. I don't hate my MIL but she was definitely trundling towards being one of those horror MILs, like your MIL, and I would have ended up loathing her too.


My FIL has been actively conciliatory towards me, he even said to H that he was going to come and visit us and he didn't care what his wife said. Since he is physically dependent on his wife (he has had a series of strokes), that was more wishful than possible but the message was received loud and clear by me. But then my FIL has always been the head of the family, he is still seen like this, he is definitely not browbeaten by his wife, like possibly your FIL was.



Yes, this is a major transgression on his part, and my H did the same. The bitter fruits of inaction are now being harvested and we all (including MIL) have to eat them.



Regret is so painful, isn't it?


I agree completely. I think it's still possible with my MIL. I just hope that she sees the light before my FIL, who is very frail, dies.



I honestly don't think my relationship with my MIL can be restored. I don't want it anymore. But I could see the possibility that down the track, my H and the kids go and visit again, although perhaps not as often as previously. Perhaps once every couple of months. But she'd have to show humility and understanding before that happens, I need to feel that I am safe if H and the kids go and visit, that H or the kids are not going to come home with some story that upsets me and leads to arguments between H and me. You can't hold your door open to trouble: if you do, then you can't complain when it comes in and wrecks your house.


Thank you for sharing your story with me, LongWayFromHome. It makes me feel not quite so alone.