Hi Tom,

Thanks for posting. I appreciate all the comments and advice I have received here. You're absolutely right about not being in control of the situation. I believe that is the toughest part because I'm a leader and like many men, a fixer. This nightmare that so many of us are living can be unbearable at times. I am trying to figure out who I am and what my purpose is. I pray diligently and remind myself to let God do what he does, but I often fail and don't listen because I want answers. Answers that I may never find. I feel as though I'm lost and trapped in this pit of anguish.

I never thought I'd be where I am right now and I constantly look for solutions. I strive to do the right things and I take comfort in knowing that I am a good person that never asked for this. I know I have to keep moving. I know I have to take care of myself, but I'm obsessed with going through the fire. A friend of mine has a quote from a famous general that says "If you're going through hell, keep going." I try to live that way. I'm just hoping for less pain each day. I Plan A like it's nobody's business. One day it will pay off. I just know it!

Hi MM,

I'm so glad I went back to read on this page. I almost missed your post. I apologize for my weak state at times. I've had strong moments and a lot of weak moments. I'm glad I'm able to relate to the way you put things into perspective. I have so many questions for you that I hope to ask you offline some day. I appreciate you putting me back on track. I do know what the mission is. I just don't know what to do with my emotions some times. I feel like everyone is moving forward, but me. I just want to be ok. Not great, not worse, just ok. My job and free time feels meaningless right now. I can't pick myself up.

GJM,

Welcome to personal recovery. We all have to do it at some point, whether our marriages are restored or not. Part of that recovery is dealing with the emotions (or lack thereof). I'll be 4 years into recovery in June. The hardest emotion for me to fight was not anger (though I was plenty angry), but sadness. I also just wanted to be "ok". Sometimes, dealing with the emotions means sitting and (for me anyway) journalling. Sometimes it was beating the heavy bag, sometimes it was just crying it out. I remember thinking to myself "I just wanna be ok".

The fact you are still here pressing on makes me think you are moving forward, even if you can't see it right now. It may be a low crawl, but it's forward motion nonetheless.

It gets better GJM. The lows don't go quite so low and the highs eventually get a little higher and stay there longer. The pain fades and the focus on "normal life" (whatever that really is) begins to come into focus.

hang in there. You are doing well!

CV

Thanks CV,

You've been a huge help and have stuck with me for a while now. I know I haven't said it much, but I appreciate your words of encouragement. That personal recovery is a must. I need to figure that out sooner rather than later.

You're welcome. Just remember, it takes time. More for some of us than others. What brings joy and happiness into your life? For me I had 3 things that i had pretty much abandoned after Dday. One was reading comics. Stupid I know, but I really enjoy those brief trips into another universe and love comic art. Second was art. I stopped sketching cold (hadn't done that since I was 5) and the last was my religious studies, which really crushed me more than anything. I still went to school, but my passion had left.

I picked up the first two again shortly after Dday. Reading comics mostly, but slowly got back into sketching. only in the last year have I begun to get a passion back for my theological studies. These have helped me focus better, and my wife is encouraged to see me doing these things I love.

Find those things you love and do them. Reconnect with them. They really help.

CV

I Plan A like it's nobody's business. One day it will pay off. I just know it!

G, just don't lock yourself into a pre-set idea of exactly what the "payoff" might be, okay?

Thank you MM, GJM and cv. I've been reading the latest post and although my situation is different, it is the same. Thanks, this discussion has been a great help!

NG,

I'll try not to.

Okay...Gunny, guess what? Your last posts show me that you are moving forward.

You ask: "How is that? I feel like crap, I blubber like a baby sometimes. I have never been so uncertain in my life."

Because what these good folks above are refering to (personal recovery) IS the next step for you. This is the next part of your mission.

I'll come back to this in a second. First, I want you to know that I made a TON of mistakes throughout the whole process. I was stubborn and didnt listen early on. Then, I gave up and was ready to just can it, and find someone else. And Recovery after she came back? Look, it will be the HARDEST thing you will EVER do! Not because of your WW, but because of YOU! As Steve Harley told me once, the BIGGEST threat to recovery is NOT the wayward spouse...it is the betrayed spouse. You will learn this in time.

But right now, you are where you are. And you need to do this thing, go through this, for many reasons. Remember I said whether or not your wife comes back...that your path is the same. Well, here is the first reason why!! You had issues before this happened. Things as a husband you needed to work on (we all do). Some of them, you are learning now as you take the time to be introspective of what has happened here.

But, along with this, you are severely damaged. The issues that have been raised because of what your wife has done are the elephant in the room.

So, let me start with the negative. What happens if you DONT get through personal recovery. Well, if your wife comes back, you will not be prepared for recovery in the marriage. And YOU will be the one that undermines it and destroys it. And if she doesnt come back, you will take all of this damage and baggage and dump it on some unsuspecting woman later on, who doesnt deserve having to deal with your mess.

Do you get what I am saying? Actually, your wife being gone right now is a good thing...for you. How so? Because you are in control of your environment right now. Which means, you can set the battle plans for conducting your personal recovery. You can take the time to grieve, to get closer to God. You can use this time to educate yourself on all of these things (love, marriage, being a husband, etc). You can begin laying, out of the shambles that your wife has left...a path out of this valley.

Remember, if she comes back...she is expecting YOU to have a plan. Remember, her plan was to sleep around and leave you. That didnt work out so well for her. So, she is going to be looking to the SANE person in the relationship to have a plan. So, a part of personal recovery is to have that plan.

I can tell you that when my wife and I finally got back together in later 2006, we went off to the Marriage Builders weekend. Which was great. It was a good start. And about that time, our fourth child was conceived. Great start, right?

Well, remember what I said??? The biggest threat to recovery is the betrayed spouse!! You see, I had gotten very good at doing Plan A, doing Plan B, etc. But what I didnt do was plan for the surrender! What then?

Oh sure, some would say "that's easy. Just start meeting each others ENs, deposit love units...all of the Harley principles." Yeah, whatever! And I say "whatever" because I can tell you that when you enter recovery with your wife (if you do), all of the things inside you that you did not do will come up. Plus, you will have been exhausted by Plan A, Plan B, the affair, etc. So, there wont be much energy there to expend trying to come up with a plan.

Added to this, you will feel that you are now entitled. Entitled to have her carry the marriage, while you check out for awhile. Not to have an affair. But just to rest...to get your time.

The problem with that is it is not a plan that works or will work. And your wife will look around and go "this is not why I came back here." And either recovery will end and she will leave again...or it will be a slow, painful process that will leave you both drained. And the recovery will take a whole lot longer than it should!!

I appreciate the nice words some say about me here. But as that quote I gave you from General Lee the other day...wisdom is nothing but healed pain. All of the folks that are helping you here have been or are going through this. All of them had times where they were screwing up big time...not getting it. That includes me. I mean, if you had the time and looked back through all of my threads, starting in 2002, you would see that I was no different than you.

So, this long post means this...you are moving forward. These feelings are evidence of this. You have this site and the people here. You have the Harleys for personal and marriage counseling with your wife. You have all of the stories on here to help you understand that you are not unique, and you are not alone.

So, when you are down...when things dont look bright, you have to have your plan in place. Why? Because during those times, you will need to follow the plan, even though you arent feeling it...even though it looks futile. The plan will get you through.

So, begin learning about personal recovery. About dealing with your issues. Get help if you need it.

And then, cut yourself a break. Think of it this way, using a military analogy. You are behind enemy lines, alone. You are injured, hungry, cold. Scared. You dont know where you are, how you got there, or the way out. All you have is a radio...

And over that radio, there are people speaking to you that KNOW where you are. We cannot get to you...we cannot fight your battle. But we have been in the valley you are in. We know where all of the traps are, the rocks are. Where the cliffs are. And most importantly, where the path out is! Remember, we have been there.

So, you listen to us describe the land ahead, and what pitfalls await. And then you put your plan together...and put one foot in front of the other. Eventually, you will meet all of us on the other side. And maybe even your wife will be there.

Last thing I will say about this. Fear. Being afraid. I had a civilian once asked me...why is it so easy for soldiers to throw themselves on a handgrenade to save their buddies. Or to get up out of a safe place and run into incoming fire to save a downed buddy?

I asked him "You think that is easy? You think the guy wasnt scared? That's crazy! Of course they were scared...out of their minds with fear." I then went on to say that courage is not the absence of fear...it is moving despite the fear.

So what motivates a soldier to do those things? Honor. Because there is no way I can get on a plane and head home, knowing that I jumped out of this foxhole and let you take the grenade. There is no way I can go back to my family knowing I left you laying on that battlefield...all so I could stay safe in my hole.

So, dont deny your feelings. Your fears. They are VERY real. I would be worried about you if you didnt have them!

In one of the firefighter movies, I remember during the end, one of them had fallen and was dangling over the fire. Two other firefighters had a hold of his arm...holding on tight. But it looked impossible to be able to get him up without risking all three of their lives. And one of the ones holding the guys said:

"If you go, we all go."

This is where you are. As I said, your Marine training will actually help you in this. It has shown you how to operate in these type of environments. Keep working your plan...get your COAs down on paper and figure out what is needed to do. And take care of yourself.

Mortarman,

Right before you were about to call it quits, how much contact did you have with your wife on a daily basis?

As a side note, this Saturday I will be taking my wife bowling. She has talked about taking baby steps, but I don't really know what those are. I guess meaning not rushing back into the marriage until she feels like I won't hold her affair over her head.

Bowling!
How fun.
I googled some 'romantic' ways to bowl with someone of the opposite sex.


If you're not too competitive, make up fun, unique rules.

For instance, try knocking down only a certain pin or coming up with new and creative ways to roll the ball down the court.

Another reason bowling is the perfect date is because, after you've finished your frames, there are many more activities that you can do in the bowling alley.

Most have arcade rooms with several games as well as a bar or lounge area.

Make a playful bet before you begin bowling that whoever loses has to buy the other person a drink at the end of the night.

Rather than going out to dinner before you hit the alley, head to the lounge for drinks and share appetizers.

This will give you the opportunity to chat. If you get sick of bowling, try playing on the alley's pool table.

Thanks Reading...hopefully all will go well.

Don't forget, look up some weird/fun facts about things to use as conversations should you be unable to think of things, or if it becomes too awkward.

That's great advice because I know all too well how awkward things get. Lack of honesty keeps conversation to a minimum.

Are you riding together? How about a mix cd of some favorite music you can both sing along with?

CV

Gunny, sorry for the absence. this week is hectic because we are finishing up paperwork so we can close on our new house on the 31st.

Sharing the mistakes? There were many!!! Too many.

But rather than trying to go back and list them all, let me say two things:

1. You will make mistakes. Its gonna happen. Cut yourself a break when you do. While you are trying to do the right thing, you will not be perfect!

2. We are here. So, as you go along, we will be able to help you understand what is happening and where the pitfalls are. In that way, as you come up on something, we will be able to go "hey, that's where I screwed up. Here's how..." And then redirect you in a better direction.

Again, you are doing fine. Trust the plan.

Actually more than you think early on (the first times). Once we had finally gone to court for the divorce, and we were basically waiting the alloted time until it was final...I went completely dark on her. No contact, save for emails, messages, etc concerning the kids.


Here's the thing...use this bowling trip to just hang out. Clear your head of everything going on. Laugh, be playful. Sit in the chair slouched back. Why do I say that? Because body language will convey everything! Show that you are 1. relaxed, and 2. confident.

You think you are scared? She is terrified! So create an environment where she doesnt have to fear you. Her guard will be up. So, just enjoy the moment. Show her that you indeed are the man...and that you will protect her, even from herself!

So, enjoy. Put what has happened out of your mind for just a few hours. Have a beer.

Now, let me get into some minutia real quick....
1. Complement her, but dont be clingy about it. Dont over do it. I think you know what I mean. Just be honest! She knows you, you know her. So, if she went out of her way to look good that night...say something.

2. Keep saying her name. I can go into a Biblical reason for this...but for brevity, let me just say that that a woman is wired to respond to her name. That when you say her name, in the back of her mind, she feels that you are directly and 100% focused on her. Again, this is a biblical thing that has been hard wired into women. Again, dont overdo it!! So, when she says "I got that promotion at work." Dont say "Honey, that is great." Instead, say "Suzie, that is great." (All you ladies can chime in out there and tell me if I am off on this...but doesnt it feel different when he says your name instead of "honey" or nothign at all?). Anyway, I think you get the point.

3. Touch: dangerous, but NECESSARY! If you arep utting your hands all over her, she is going to see you as clingy. Remember, she is scared right now! So, easy does it on this. But, things like as you walk through the front door of the bowling alley, placing your hand on the small of her back to usher her in. When you are sitting at the scorer's table, leaning over to look at what she is doing and your shoulder brushes hers. Or, as you point out something on the screen, take your other hand and tap on top of hers, if it is on the table. What I mean is, as you lightly tap the top of her hand with yours, take your other hand and point out something like "hey, you are kicking my butt here! Two strikes in a row...are you kidding me? I need to step my game up." Again, I think you get my point. (NOTE: Do not get all serious with her and touch her. If for some reason she gets in a serious discussion, while that is going on, dont touch her. She WILL pull back. As the discussion winds down, THEN you grab her hand and say something like "hey, we didnt come here to go through all of that now. Plenty of time for that later. Let's go get another beer.")

4. When the night is over, end the night. Again, she is SCARED. But, you may do such a good job...that the feelings that are inside her may come out. Shoot, she may even want to jump in bed with you! And while that is a good thing normally, and would be a chance to meet ENs...I found it not to be helpful. Why? Because the next day she wakes up and finds herself launched further down the road than she was ready for. So, when the night ends, dont talk about coming home, the affair...just end the night. Say her name, tell her how much you enjoyed it and that you want a rematch (LOL)...and then tell her that you will talk to her later. Kiss her on the cheek...tell her you love her...and then walk away. And have a little swagger in your step as you do...as she will be watching.

Lastly, when you give her that kiss on the cheek, have a piece of paper in your hand...and slip it into hers. What does it say on it?

Well, when I was in Bosnia as the affair started, I saw this movie "Knight's Tale." And as I began to understand that something wasnt right back home, I "stole" from the movie a part of it, and adapted it for my wife. So, one letter I sent home, it just had this in it. I copy this to you...and you are free to use it. It was exactly how I felt. And it said everything.

The pieces of my broken heart are so small that they can be passed through the eye of a needle. I miss you like the sun misses the flower in the depths of winter. Instead of beauty to direct its light to, the heart hardens like the frozen world your absence has banished me to.

Hope guides me, it is what gets me through the day and especially the night. The hope that after you're gone from my sight, it will not be the last time that I look upon you. With all the love that I possess, I remain yours.

The Knight of your heart.

Yes. My dh is very affectionate with his words. He calls me love, honey, sweetie, dear...rarely calls me by my very unusual first name. (oddly enough my nickname with my FOO is his XWs name so he NEVER calls me that) I do notice a physical response in me...heart jumps a bit...that sort of thing...when he says my first name.

And MM that quote from the movie is beautiful!

It is beautiful. And it conveys the broken heart...but not in a despondent way. Instead, in a hopeful way.

And your reaction to your husband saying your first name...well, I hear that a lot from women! Guys just dont understand the power of that.

Guys, you wanna see if I am right here...try it at home a few times and watch the reaction of your wife. When you come up behind her in the kitchen to give her a peck on the cheek, instead of saying "Wow, that looks great, honey." ...instead say "Suzie, that looks great." To us guys, that may seem pointless...but the ladies here can tell you that it causes a reaction deep within their soul.