Senn, you are headed to divorce right now. If I were you, I would figure out how to support your household without her.

Have you tried renting out your old house?

You are on the path to losing that house anyway, senn. That's the way you have to look at it. The longer you two keep going on in a M that is not protected from further As and where you two spend a good amount of your free time apart because you work opposite shifts, the more and more likely you are to D.

By the way, can I just mention that losing my house was one of the biggest concerns I had when I was deciding whether to D? It is my dream house that STBX & I spent years talking about & planning for. We sunk our life savings into it when we built it. It's beautiful. And it's already been sold, we are just waiting on the short sale to be approved.

If you end up D, you will not have your children with you full time anymore, senn. If you end up divorcing, your WW will most like end up dating other low-lifes and who knows what your children will be exposed to. That's what happened to me and believe me, it recalibrates your thinking very quickly. Losing the house is the least of my concerns now...

As for the Idea of having an A, well I am going to toss this out there, I am no longer interested in that approach. Why? I acted on it last night and realized very quickly that it is as ugly doing it as it is seeing it done.

I went to the bar last night by myself (which is way out of my character). I ordered a beer and sat by myself at a table in the corner. I was there a whole 10 minutes when I started to realize what a very bad idea it was. I was actually getting ready to get up and leave when a very attractive young lady walked over and sat down. We talked for about 20 minutes. I am not a good at lying and am known for being (stupidly) honest when dealing with people. I told this woman I was married, and explained how our marriage is in the crapper, and she was still interested, sick!

I ended up dancing with her. She kissed me, I kissed her and well she was going to go home with me, and made it very clear to me. I even asked her are you sure that's what you want. We were interrupted by her friend who was leaving and asked the woman if she was getting a ride with me or them ( her friends). They stepped away and started arguing. I looked around the bar and realized there were a lot of eyes on us as she was one of the more attractive woman in the room, and was dressed a bit like a skank. My first thought was who all knows me in there, and second was how long they were watching us, third was how to get to the door quickest. I wanted to crawl into a hole. I walked over to my chair, grabbed my coat and walked directly out of the bar to my truck and left, feeling ashamed of myself. It is the worst feeling I can describe.

Who knows what kind of disease she could have had, and stupidly I was a man on a mission and was going to ignore that risk. I had my mind made up going to the bar of what I wanted to do. I would have never guessed I would have got cold feet and bailed, especially after hooking my line into an attractive woman. I am sick to my stomach and can only thank God for the sudden good sense he gave me to run.

In the 15 years I have been married I have neither touched another woman nor kissed another woman. I imagined it completely different, exciting, sexual, fulfilling. It was non of those things, just ugly and shameful not even a turn on.

I wanted to understand what my WW sees outside of our marriage, to find out she can't possibly think highly of our marriage to do that. I know now that I can pick up a slut in a bar. I may never know if I can find a good woman who will treat me right.

And Yes, I have every intention on telling my W, as I am typing this, it will be a bit hard to hide.

Indie, you may be right on the subtle triggers, I do get triggered more when we go to the town we just moved from as that is actually where the A started.

Suzie, You and Mel are correct in what is important in life, and a house is just a house, we make it a home etc. I can tell you this, If I lose what has been a dream of mine since the day we got married over her infidelity, I would never forgive her for that and this marriage will never survive. This is what I have worked for my whole life, a place where I want to retire and grow old, and to lose it over my wife's inability to keep her legs closed would be unforgivable. The house stays or the marriage will surely fail.

Especially given that this is a site full of solutions.

He can't write an email to Dr. Harley, but he can go out and have an affair? Give me a break.

An eye for an eye just leaves everyone blind.

YUK.

Senn, you need to come to grips with the fact that you accepted the wrong kind of proof.

This site explains what the right kind of proof is.

I know the board was different in years past, but the information was still here, and today it is more accessible than ever: you can even call Dr. Harley for free. And in the end it is up to you to seek out that information and see that it is put into practice.

Implementing the Marriage Builders program is something that the betrayed spouse can measure. If you abdicate your duty to do that, then you won't get a recovery. You abdicated that last time, and you are wanting to abdicate it this time, and you are coming up with ludicrous excuses like this idea that you can't tell if she's "changed for sure" or not, or whether she will do it again or not.

Recovery is not for wimps. It requires work, even on the part of the betrayed spouse.

It is clear, Senn, that you do not want to do the work, so please spare all of us the drama and just cut it off now.

Your marriage cannot recover because you are abdicating your responsibilities as a husband. It is as simple as that. Spare us the lies and excuses.

We know what your wife can do to change, and to prove it, and you do not. That's kind of sad, isn't it?

Our dreams are shattered because of our BS. It is necessary for us to change our dreams a bit because of this. I too put much importance into the "family home" because it has been in my WS family for so long. My WS also destroyed my dreams and hopes for us, our family, retirement, growing old etc.. I have changed my dream. I bought my own "family home".

Choice is yours, keep your dream or change your dream.

OK senn, sometimes I get tempted to just let you go over the rapids because you dont do anything.

So let me try and lead you to dry land again.

Right now this is your plan
1) Keep working opposite shifts which put my WW (and now me) at risk of an A. To pay for the dream house.
2) Get divorced when this situation blows up in our faces
3) Lose the dream house any way.

Its not the um, BEST plan is it?

How about renting out your second house, or renting out both houses to move somewhere where there are suitable jobs for you both.

That way at least the dream house would stay in your possession for a later date if circumstances change and you can afford to live in it without endangering your marriage.


On your current plan, you would lose it and everything else.

Or do you have a better idea?

No one likes their first cigarette Senn. You will be a bit more into the next one. Unless you either build an affair proof marriage or get divorced so you can meet decent women.

So instead of using MB tools to actually fix your M, you decide to drive it further into the ditch, all the while emphatically stating that you refuse to give up your house in order to do what needs to be done to fix your M, when you are most likely going to lose it anyway...

I am having trouble deciding who is more foggy at this point, you or your WW.

I truly hope and pray for your children's sakes that one of you wakes up and starts taking steps to turn this around before it is too late.

Marcos,
I don't know if I'm up for it this time around. I'm not sure I want a life of seclusion and separation to prevent her from straying. I have stopped coming here and posting, as I already feel that it is a dismal future, and I doubt highly she will change. It doesn't make it easy to continue to read that our marriage will fail unless she changes jobs or we don't sell the house etc. Not hiding from the facts of my life, but feel like I am being pushed into a corner and trying to find a way out.

It seems every move I make will result in failure.

It seems every move I don't make will result in failure.

I am trying to tailor MB into my life, you all are trying to get me to tailor my life to MB. I feel like a waist of your time... a lost cause.
As I have said, I feel like I am on a tightrope, trying to keep it all together.


Logan,
I agree with you, my only problem with your statement is I have already given up on and changed our dreams once. We had what we wanted when we lived in Denver, and we quit our jobs, sold our house and moved b/c of her infidelity. I will not do it again. I finally have what I have worked for all my life and am not going to give up on it so easily. If that means I lose my marriage and I have to get a second job to keep the house, I will, I can assure you.

You all must understand, This house isn't a status symbol, it looks like an old cottage and is nearly 100 years old, not some new fancy million dollar house. It is something out of a Norman Rockwell painting with a creek running through the back yard. I would dump something if it were just the $ value to it, this is much more than that to me.

She is supposed to prove to you with actions that she can change. Like giving up her job

And where in the MB plan does it suggest a life of 'seclusion and separation' What on earth do you mean?



If this is your plan, then divorce her and get that second job.

You are going to end up flying solo any way.

Why are you draggin the M through more affairs first? On her side at work, and on yours through resentment?

You about done with your WAYWARD pity party?

I'm a lost cause. I can't fix this. I should just give up. I can't do MB, it's not for my SITCH, my sitch is different. BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Seriously, what kind of entitled feelings led you here?

And you went out LOOKING for an affair. THAT is HORRIFIC. You acted like SCUM.

Isn't it funny how you mentioned not knowing if you would be able to find a nice woman. Where have you been reading? WAYWARDS AFFAIR DOWN. That "woman" you committed adultery with was WORSE than your WW. Wrap your head around THAT little tidbit for a while.

Once you can get yourself out of your "PPM" syndrome, why don't you try actually using the TOOLS on this site?

I would appreciate answers.

If you are not up to doing the work now, you will not be up to doing the work later with anyone else. You are setting yourself up for a life of repeating this. Either in this relationship, or in later ones.

I don't know if your marriage can recover or not. But I do know that the way you are going, you can't make any marriage work, because you do not want to do the work.

Repeating MelodyLane's post, because it is so true:

Senn, having an affair does not boost one's confidence, it erodes it.

And what I mean by a "recovered" marriage is not one in which you are "happy" for a few years, but one that is affair proofed. She has never done that. A marriage that is not affair proofed just leads to more affairs.

...

I find it astonishing that the only solution you can seem to muster is to commit adultery yourself. That is irresponsible and reckless. It won't help your marriage, your self esteem or your self confidence. It will make the situation worse.

...

The solution is to find a way to affair proof your marriage and make sure this doesn't happen again. Until you do that, I frankly don't see any hope here.

You act like this is not an option. You act like it's not possible. It's too much work, so you don't want to do it, so you justify your decision not to do it by claiming it wouldn't work, by not bothering to read and learn the details, etc.

But this decision will leave you to a lifetime of repeating the same agony.

Just watched a documentary on the 1st Marine Div's battle at the Chosin res. In Korea. 45 below zero, literally outnumbered 8 to 1. Surrounded with no way out. What did they do? They buckled down and fought their way out. Wounded (some fatally), bloodied and beaten, they didn't throw the towel in and give up. Common men of uncommon valor. They knew the task and did the job. Wasn't pretty and wasn't pleasant, but they wanted a life.

What about you, Senn? Do you just want to go on living or do you want a life? It's hard. darn hard. Recovery is ugly. But like those Marines in the Frozen Chosin, there's just one way out. You can lie down and die or you can fight for something better.

I'd listen to Markos and the others on this one.

Marcos,
I am ashamed of my pathetic attempt at lashing out with a RA. I know it doesn't mean much to you all, but I'm actually ashamed I disappointed you all. I appreciate what you have said, and the fact that your still posting to me despite my resistance to change and pathetic woe-is-me crap. Thank you!

Scotland, Pity Party is where I am. I am in the dumps, I keep saying I am at rock bottom and think that is true, yet it seems to be a continual slide down into the depths of hell. I am to a point where I may need to get some meds to help the through this.

Indie,
We have had many discussions on this matter. No we didn't write down options on paper, however we have discussed what, if anything, can be done to create a better work situation. I have reached out to her boss (my ex boss, as her work is my previous employer) and asked to come back to work there on the same shift as WW. I am not pushing the issue yet, letting the seed grow in his mind. He isn't a fan of spouses working together particularly on the same shift. He would take me back for sure on an opposite shift, but that would defeat the purpose.

We could take vacation together. I think it would be more wise to come up with a plan in our spare time and use the vacation for job interviews etc. We do see each other quite a bit. She goes to work when I go to bed. She gets up a little before I get home from work, so we spend our evenings together and our weekends together. Not a whole lot different than us working the same shift, we just don't sleep together.

I know everyone here wants action right away, however with our finances, we must take it slow. The big thing we are holding out on, is the other house to sell, we could afford to have her move into a lower paying job then. I am not a "count the chickens before they hatch" type of person, so I'm not making a decision yet based off of something that hasn't happened. We cannot rent the other house as it is contracted with a real estate broker, and would have to end the contract early which would result in termination fees, and defeat the purpose of any money we could earn off the rent.

We went over and over the finances buying this place, knew it was a big risk as we would be just sliding by until the other house sold. I would have never guessed an affair might bring it all down, she knew full well as she was getting it started the week before we closed.

Celtic,
Thank you for your words of encouragement. I have lost a lot of motivation, as our situation seems so lost cause. I rarely get the you can make it, or you can do this (positive) encouragement. I appreciate it a lot.