Hi Andy<P>Coming in a bit late on this one, but wanted to add to Pam's post about the anger ... <P>I don't think it really is anger to be directed at the OP, more just anger about the circumstances, "what / why / when / futility of it all, frustration at circumstance" kind of anger. Like when someone dies, anger is still a part of the grief process, but not anger directed at the person, just anger at circumstances, things you can't change, things that you have no control over. Like the saddness and strength of feeling for the OP, the situation of where your life is at the moment, and what circumstances helped you take the path you did. Also, maybe an anger at feeling like you are stuck somewhere you maybe don't want to be, and so letting go is really hard, because you don't really want to be left in the reality which is now yours, without the friendship which you had. <P>Maybe you are grieving not only the OP, but the ideals which you wanted within your own marriage, which you felt with the OP, but which you feel you can't achieve with your wife, just due to your differences in interests, conversation, culture etc. This is legitimate grief, and maybe not just about the OW. <P>I guess in a way, what I'm trying to say, is that maybe you are not just grieving the OW herself, but the things in your life which she represented - a relationship which shared common interests, friendship, conversation etc, which is different, and will never be the same, as that with your wife. So maybe the associated anger will come, if you allow it, as it is not anger towards the OP, which I realise is not what you feel, but about other things, your choices in your early life, things which you might have done differently, which might have led you to a different place ... stuff like that. You need to pass through all the stages of grief to make it to acceptance, and without that, you won't be able to make the changes in your life which are right for YOU, and your own positive future, and therefore ultimately right for everyone else in your life, whatever those changes may be, and whatever short term pain has to be worked through.<P>Don't know, but I get the feeling you might be stumbling a bit with the anger, as you feel like it is supposed to be directed at the OP. What about when you get frustrated with your life ... don't you feel a bit angry then about stuff??? Just pondering again, you know me!!!!!<P>Remember this from the <A HREF="http://www.survivingloss.com" TARGET=_blank>www.survivingloss.com</A> site?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Recovering from a loss takes place in three distinct--yet overlapping--stages. <P>They are <BR>shock/denial/numbness <BR>fear/anger/depression <BR>understanding/acceptance/moving on<BR> <BR>Each stage of recovery is <BR>necessary <BR>natural <BR>a part of the healing process<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>So maybe for you, anger is not the biggest emotion, it is depression, or fear - that your life within your marrige will never be quite what you dreamed, or desire, and to chose to stay in your marriage, means living without some things you REALLY want, despite all the good things. Thats pretty scary hey, when forever / the future is a long time.

Thanks sosad, for that post. Yup, you're right. I have had anger, just not directed at the OW. Pretty much everything in your post is right on the mark! You know me pretty good by now! <P>I think I must still be in the fear/anger/depression mode. Been in it for a long time. Damn I wish I'd move on to the acceptance stage here at some point in time!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Thats pretty scary hey, when forever / the future is a long time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You said a mouthful there!! double <P>--andy

Hey Andy-how was that lunch? I don't know if it counts. Sometimes it takes a simple thing to be kind to oneself. Like every once in awhile I actually do my nails a weird color that I normally wouldn't. Or take a 5 minute walk in a local park just talking to myself (whoever makes better conversation? Just ignore the prople who look at you like your weird or something! ) Or go to a movie that only you could appreciate. Something silly that you probably wouldn't do on your own. Anyhow, how did the day go? I pray as well as you could make it! God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P><BR>

Andy,<P>Just my perspective: even though you would like to go back and change things (who wouldn't at some point in their lives!?!?!), continue to focus on learning from all this pain and grief.<P>ALL OF US make bad choices in our lives at one time or another. Some of the bad choises we make have more far-reaching devastation than others. I guess I realize that we are ALL HUMAN and ALL MAKE MISTAKES. I judge the worth of the person in not being "free" from bad choices or never having made mistakes, but for admitting our weaknesses and pledging to grow as a better person because of what we have learned from our mistakes and bad choices.<P>Don't beat yourself up what "if only I hadn't..." You are always supportive and understanding to the rest of us here on this forum. <P>Be that kind to yourself! Have a great lunch!<BR> <BR>Roll me Away

Bren -- yeah I had a nice lunch with my friend. I also confide in him too. He's one of the only people who I can talk to about everything. Yesterday, though, we just basically "shot the sh*t". (I'd do my nails, but I think I'd get alot more than just weird looks... ). Anyway, I don't know if it was my lunch or not, but I did feel better yesterday.<P>RMA -- actually, I'm thinking that even if I knew what was going to happen, I wouldn't have done it different. That's the really sad thing. That's why I say my earlier self is a putz.<P>--andy

Andy, who cares if the former self eas a putz!?! I think everyone her would agree the present self is pretty darn wonderful. Glad you had a friend to talk to at lunch!<P>Roll Me Away

Andy ... sent you an email ... By the way, I think pink nails would look great!!!

Yes Airheart, that is kinda like the OM telling me he had not regrets.

RMA -- thanks for the kind words.<P>sosad -- I bite my nails too much to put any nail-polish on them anyway, but if I did, I think I'd go with a nice neon green. <LOL><P>susan -- you know of course that when your OM says "no regrets" he's talking about meeting and falling in love with you... I'm sure he has lots of regrets about everything else, like how it turned out, how screwed up his life is now, how miserable he's made you, etc. I hope that he has the strength to leave you alone, and sees that it's the best thing for you.<P>--andy

Andy,<P>Do you really think an OM would feel sad and sorry for the hurt he has caused? I got really hurt with all this and thinking that he felt really bad about what he did to me would help.

Bonny,<P>I'm just guessing of course, based on Susan's description of her OM. He seemed similar to me in some ways. I certainly felt horrible for what I put my OW through. And I felt horrible that it seemed like, at the time, I ruined her life. I believe she's completely gotten over me now, and her life is pretty much as it was before, whereas I'm left in a shambles... but that's beside the point. <P>You know your OM better than I do. Did he seem to care about you? Did he seem like a caring and giving person in general? If so, then he probably felt bad about the consequences of what happened, and about how hurt you were.<P>--andy

Andy, <P>I know you don't have much to go on since I never really explained my situation. Have thought of e-mailing you but am a bit afraid. <BR>Why did you think your ruined OP's life?

Bonny,<P>I don't mind if you email me. I have an email address specifically for the people I talk to from the forum. it's: airheart@home.com. Feel free. <P>Anyway, with regards to me thinking that I ruined the OW's life... She was basically breaking up a 4-5 yr relationship with her fiance to eventually be with me. We both thought that we would end up together. That was all shattered post discovery. I felt like I ruined her life. Of course, looking back I think that's a pretty gross exaggeration. I'm pretty sure that she's fine now. But I still feel bad for hurting her/breaking her heart, etc.<P>--andy

Hi Andy,<P>Just poking my nose in here. Don't really have anything to say, but I was thinking about you and wondered how you were feeling today.<BR>You know that you didn't 'ruin' her life. No one has that kind of control over anyone. I am learning -slowly mind you- that we all control our own lives and are own choices. <BR>You are a great guy- yes you are- and you made mistakes and will continue to make them, but that is all part of being human.<BR>Hope you are feeling better. Go give your wife a big fat smooch!!!!<P>Cheryl

Cheryl -- Hey thanks for the vote of confidence! I'm feeling better today than I did at the beginning of the week. My bad moods come in two week schedules. I'm not due for another bout of the blues till the week after next... Yeah, I realize that I didn't really ruin the OW's life. But that's how I felt at the time. I remember writing her a long letter apologizing to her for screwing everything up and basically ruining 5 lives (me, my W, my son, her, her fiance). I was a big terrible mess, way worse than I am now! I have a little perspective now... <P>--andy

Andy,<P>You are not a mess. If you are, God only knows what that makes me .<P>Did you go give your wife that sloppy kiss yet?? Go, buddy, go.<P>Cheryl

Cheryl, well you're a mess too of course! We're all messes 'round here! <LOL><P>My wife's out with a (female) friend right now (which is why I'm on board posting and stuff), so I can't give her a kiss. But I promise I will when she gets home, okay? <P>--andy

OK!! Have a good evening and a GREAT day tomorrow.<BR>Think ahead, not behind. I am already thinking about the day that my STBX and I can carry on a NORMAL conversation. Hey, it might just happen!!<BR>Take care.<P>Cheryl