Hi, everyone!

2 months since DDay. We are still in counseling with SH almost every week but last week, we cancel due to our very busy schedule at home and SH's schedule but we are back with SH on Tuesday. Bricks and I are spending more time than we ever did. We even went on a 3 day weekend without the kids. That was a first after 12 years of being married. We also do some RC twice a week, so probably over all 13 1/2 hours every week without counting the cuddling in bed before waking up and phone calls when both of us are working.

NC was established and continued to be in effect as of today. I have established EPs and read SA and now reading His and Her Needs. We are also meeting each others ENs most especially, BRICKS' needs.

Before we got married, I made it known to him that it would bother me a lot if he works closely with the opposite sex. He knows this need of mine up to the present. I just found out yesterday that he hired a grad student to work with him on a big project 6 months ago. Also found out that they drove together to a meeting which is about an hour and a half away. I felt so bad for him when he travels because he tells me he's by himself. But yesterday, I called his cell around 0730 so that I can accompany him on the boring drive but he didn't pick up. He said he didn't feel it vibrate. So I called him 2 more times during the day and finally was able to talk to him around 1500 on my way home from the University. He said he was so busy with back to back meetings. So I got home, tended the kids and called him at work around 1700. He picked up. I told him that I missed him all day and that I wanted to talk to him this morning on his way to the meeting and that I felt bad that he was driving by himself. I went on about a few times about this then he told me that this girl was in the car with him. They apparently met at the gas station about 2 mins from our house. He said the student didn't have a car and that she took the bus from the University to the gas station which is about 35 mins away by car.

This really bothered me a lot since last night. He knows it bothers me that's why he said he didn't want to tell me about the meeting and the project. He said he can't let this student go. I really feel like I don't have any right whatsoever to even question him about why he did not tell me about this after what I did to him. We didn't talk much last night. I barely said anything to him. He slept 5 mins early and when I lay down by him, he didn't say anything about it. I slept downstairs in the couch and did not kiss him when I left for work this morning. It hurts me. His work is always very important to him from the start and I always feel like that I am in competition with his job.

What do I do? I wanted to email SH about this but I know he is busy taking care of other people. I just don't want to wait on Tuesday, that's why I am here. I am a very jealous person. I told BRICKS we will POJA on everything since D Day? He said that there are some things that only him can make a decision with regards to his job.

He is only saying that his job is more important than his marriage, though. The job should complement the marriage, not the other way around. NOTHING should ever be off the table when it comes to the POJA. Your husband is having a very inappropriate, unprofessional relationship with this employee and I wonder if he is having an affair? Why would he sneak off to meet her 2 minutes from your house? Why would he not take your calls all day? This is very inappropriate, MrsBricks.

He shouldn't be going anywhere in a car with a female employee.

He said that he knows his boundaries and his EPs. I went on and told him that people in the forum mentioned that if a person says that, they will be more prone to affairs. I was. He said he has not done anything wrong and why I am blaming him. He said nothing happened. There's not even a lot of talk when they were driving.



I hope he doesn't. I check his email at work most of time but 2 days ago, I did not. If I did, it would have not happened. He told me that I am welcome to read his emails. I said, that's ok but I did already. I checked around 0200 this morning and some of the emails were deleted already. There was nothing out of the ordinary that I read, though so I don't know. I checked his other email account from another university and found out that the OMWs email is still in his inbox and I also saw in the TRASH that he got an email from her on Mar. 2. He didn't tell me this and he doesn't know that I check his email regularly. I did not open the email at all because I don't want to go back to Day 1 but I am just wondering why he did not delete them.


He said the girl did not have a car and that she needed to be there for the meeting. He even drove his "nicer" car to this meeting. He said his other car which is the older and uglier one might not make it to the drive. As far as calls, he said he was in meetings. I go to the same university as my husband and his student. If I only read the email few days ago, it should have not happened.


That's what I told him. He apologized though. He said it won't happen again.

Thanks for the quick reply, MB. Sorry for the edits. I am at work and as soon as I see a response, I go to the break room across my balloon pump patient's room so I can use my laptop. Good thing, I brought it with me. I was going to sign in at the patient's room but I can't remember my password. For some reason, I am still log in, in my laptop.

Oops..I called you, MB! Hi, Melodylane. Wow, I am honored to receive a response from you. Thank you.

No, he doesn't have good boundaries if he drives females to meetings. That is the point. That is like saying he is a good drunk driver. His actions show he does not have good boundaries.


That is great!

So, what do I do now? It's hard to fulfill his needs when this is going on. As of right now, he has not approached me about this. We have not talked about it since Thursday over the phone. We have not said anything to each other since then and I have been sleeping in the couch. Most of the time when we are having problems even with little things, I was the one who would always approach so we can discuss and solve things but this time, I chose not to.

Why are you sleeping on the couch? He apologized and agreed he wouldn't do that again. That is all you need. Problem solved, move on!

Because I know he will still be working one on one with this student. He hired this student knowing that it would hurt me. He can hire a guy if he wants to but chose and picked this particular student. He also told me Thursday that this was the second time the student drove with him to see a bridge for inspection and he told me this because I asked him.

ahhh, gotcha. So he violated the policy of joint agreement by hiring her. In that case, the decision is supposed to be rescinded. How can he get rid of her and hire a guy?

Unilateral decisions in POJA

From Lovebusters, pg 170: [case study of wife Judy, who allowed her sister and BIL, Barbara and Jack, to move in with them when Jack lost his job. Judy's H, Bill, eventually moved out when the relatives would not leave]

How should the Policy of Joint Agreement be applied to a decision that has already been made unilaterally? The damage has already been done, so why not see it through to the bitter end? She wanted her sister and brother-in-law to stay until he could find a job, and from then on she would follow the Policy of Joint Agreement.

I explained to her that when the Policy of Joint Agreement has been violated, and a decision has been made without a joint agreement, a couple must correct the decision as soon as possible. In this case, it meant going back to her decision to invite Jack and Barbara to live with them and making that decision again, this time with the POJA in mind. Since she now knew that Bill would not agree to that arrangement, she had no choice but to ask her sister and BIL to find another place to live. As soon as Jack and Barbara moved out, Bill moved back in.

Thank you for answering, ML! I really appreciate it. I don't know if he can hire a guy at this time but I wrote him a letter explaining why I was hurt and not talking to him. I also wrote some conditions if he can't let this student go. I will also ask SH on Tuesday about this as well.

Mrs. Bricks,

I am also a WW who has followed both you and your H's post. I feel where you are coming from and am in a somewhat similar situation. My H just hired a 26 year old (cute) girl to work for him.

He says he felt obligated because she is the daughter of his bosses secretary and she needed the work. This however has really bothered me. He has been completely honest about hiring her and told me about her right away.

It just makes me really nervous, him working so close with a female. Mainly because that is exactly how my A started out.

What really bothers me is that he does not feel that his boundries have to as strong as mine. He always states that he would not have an affair but a year ago, I would have made the same statement.

My problem is that I feel like I don't have the grounds to force him to get rid of her. Especially since he did tell me about her prior to and is very open about working with her.

A part of me feels like I am just being overly jealous because of my own guilt but another part of me sees this as very dangerous especially after everything we have been through.

(How weird - I was just thinking about you and Bricks this very morning, and was wondering how the two of you were doing!)

Knowing boundaries and EPs and practicing them are two different things. It is dangerous behavior to be alone in a car with a co-worker of the opposite sex. He was not observing proper boundaries by doing this.

And it is alarming to me that he claims to not have felt his phone vibrate when you called. It sounds like he didn't want to talk to you while she was in the car with him. Can you check his cell phone records? Was he in contact with anyone else during the same period of time that he wasn't in contact with you?

I'm failing to see where that was his problem.

I feel the same way but I think it's more of the damage that I did, that's why I am more serious about the situation. I know I hurt him so much when I had an affair and can't imagine what I will feel if he did. I was actually kind of scared to tell him what I felt when I found out that he has hired a female grad student because of what I did. So, it took me 2 days to talk to him. So no love bank deposits then. I did not talk to him in person at first, I emailed him a long letter instead explaining everything. Then, I called him to check his email and he responded right away.

In that email, I told him that it is hard to fulfill his ENs and if he can't let go of this student right now, he has to adhere my conditions which are:

1.) Key logger on his work computer
2.) He has to record conversations with this said student
3.) He will never be in a car alone with her
4.) He will not worry on how she will get to the meeting

He agrees to all of this. I told him that I want to feel safe that's why I am doing this and he is welcome to check on me anytime if he wants to as well. He has copies of all my passwords - emails, account numbers and everything. I also said that he can put the key logger back in my laptop if he wants to. I have nothing to hide from him at all.

But one thing that really bothered him is when he asked me if I trust him and I said NO. I said, "You are a very trustworthy person but I don't trust people around you." BRICKS is a very down to earth person. He is by far the most reasonable person I know. He said, I trusted you but you had an affair. I said that you should not trust me, and you should verify everything that I tell you.

So, we will see. Thank you for following our post. Hope you tell your husband what you feel. POJA is very important at this time as well being Open and Honest about what you feel.

Thank you Mrs. Bricks for responding back to my post. I think I am also going to write my husband a letter. I have actually done this a few times already. It helps me clearly get my thoughts out and he really seems to process my words better when they are written down vs. me rambling to him.

It is so funny the trust conversation that you had with Mr. Bricks is identical to several conversations my H and I have had. He always brings up that he completely trusted me and I tell him that he should never completely trust anyone.

I also agree that it is not necessarily that I do not trust my H but I do not trust some of the situations he puts himself in. I would never have thought myself a person to have two affairs but looking back at my boundries and the position I put myself in shows me that I should have never allowed myself to even get into the predicaments that I did.

I am changing everything I do now and look at both people and situations so much differently. My H however feels that he is a stronger person and he does not need to set his boundries that high. I disagree and feel that ANYONE can and will have an A if they put themselves into a tempting situation.

I would strong advise you to choose the option of Mr Bricks letting her go and hiring a man. My STBX had workplace affairs while working closely with younger women so maybe I am having a knee jerk reaction, but I dunno, keeping her a secret, arranging to meet her to carpool two mins from the house, taking the nicer car, etc, big red flags that at the very least he has an attraction to her.

Also I would take it a step further than looking at EPs.

He has signs of a secret second life that predate your A because you said he hired this woman six months ago and didn't tell you, even though he knows this is not something you would be comfortable with.

Showing shock/upset that you don't "trust" them when caught lying is also a sign of someone who has a secret second life. And erasing emails and not telling you details of their day.

Please read up the articles in the Q&A section about having a spouse that is not O&H. Sleeping on the couch isn't the way to handle it. You should be encouraging him to share all the details of his day and be positive when he does, don't punish him to get your way. In addition to watching him closely...

Thank you for thinking of us, maritalbliss! Sorry for not responding earlier as I am at work. But, we are actually doing good until this incident happened. I will let BRICKS know.


I told him this and he got upset but later understood. We are talking with SH tomorrow and see what he thinks. I think if SH tells him to let go of this student, he will do it. He can actually get rid of her easily with no reason but he feels bad. So, there's no written contract at all which is good.


I looked at his phone history and it looked like he was on the phone with his colleague around the same time I called so it might be why it did not vibrate.


This is what I was thinking as well. He could have called me on his way home from the meeting, but he did not. BRICKS is a very shy person and feels bad hurting other people's feelings.

As far as his problem on how the girl is going to be at the meeting, I told him that this should not be a problem of his.

Thank you for responding, SusieQ! We are talking with SH tomorrow and this will be my topic. Yeah, I don't like all of his choices.


So, he should have EPs established as well?


That's what I told him but he said, "If I told you six months ago, you won't care anyway." I said, you don't know how I am going to react then. I guess he was referring to the fact that I was on the affair "stage" at that time.


I will be installing the key logger on Wednesday and he gave me all his passwords so I will be checking more often.


Thank you. I will make sure to read that section. When he got home Thursday after I confronted him about the incident. He did not approach me so we can talk about it. He went to sleep without talking to me. I wanted him to approach me because he has hurt me but he did not. I did not feel comfortable being in the same bed if we are not in good terms. He called me the next day about 6 times and I ignored all of them. We started talking Saturday after I called him that I emailed him. He responded to my email right away and I called him to thanked him. I used to talk to him right away if something is bothering me but after I had an affair and we started working with MB principles, I am more hesitant because I want to think first and write everything before I talk to him. I am not "quick to anger" like I was before. When I got home that Saturday after a study group, I approached him so we can talk.

You are very welcome! I used to be really bad but not I have calmed down.



Me, too! There was girl student that he hired 10 years ago and then let her go after I insisted. This girl would email my husband if he misses her or not. He knows what I feel about him working closely with the opposite sex.


Me, too! I learned so much from this forum and Dr. Harley's books since the affair. It's sad that something like this has to happen so we can have a better marriage.

This is not a good excuse for allowing boundaries to be dismantled. His failure to allow his boundaries to take second-seat to the possibility of hurting someone's feelings is a bad choice. He put himself and your marriage in harm's way by allowing someone else's feelings to take precedence over his boundaries. This should NEVER happen.

I am still concerned that he claims he didn't hear his phone vibrate, and I am quite convinced that he knew you called and didn't pick up because he had this woman in the car with him. He would have heard an alert if he had been on the phone when you called. I'm not saying he's having an affair - yet. I'm saying he's operating in a reckless fashion.

If he's having trouble understanding this, tell him to come back here and MaritalBliss will discuss this at length with him.

When I say that it sounds like Bricks has a history of a SSL (secret second life) that doesn't mean he doesn't need EPs. It means in addition to the EPs, that he needs to work on being radically honest (and you can aid in this by reading the articles I directed you to) and it also means there could be more to his SSL that you don't know about...like this:




My STBX only exchanged "miss ya"'s with skanks when it had risen to the level of an EA.

Can you tell us more about this relationship? What did he admit to other than the emails that you found?