I think most instances of being accused of 'nagging' comes up in the face of willful refusal to care for the nagging spouse. I don't know too many people who are so inept at communication that they can't state a respectful, valid complaint.

To even label your spouse as a nag says to me that the person labeling doesn't care what the other spouse wants. (ETA: and is making a statement that they have no intention of addressing the complaint, or even attempt to find any sort of resolution to their spouse's problem.)

Steve Harley has coached many people to 'keep bringing it up until he/she does something about it.' That's nagging, but it's not supposed to be endless effort. Plan B needs to come in there somewhere, ala "When to Call it Quits."

Less intimate needs come to the forefront when a spouse is in withdrawal. If what you are nagging your spouse about is something that ANYONE could do without causing feelings of love for that person (changing a lightbulb, for instance), you are not seeking intimacy and passion; you are seeking a maid, mechanic, plumber, babysitter, etc.

I'm uncertain ..........

I take it you are thinking on it?

Another consideration: how many people have you heard call their spouse a nag who were actually emotionally and physically invested in the health of their relationship?

One example in my home was my H's constant complaints about the location of a certain chair. I attempted to resolve his complaint by trying to re-position it daily before he came home, but I could never get it in the correct spot. I attempted to resolve that by asking him to mark the floor. That was not agreeable to him. I offered to nail it down. He didn't agree to that, either. We finally Took It To The Steve, who said, "Maybe you should look into whether or not you have OCD, sir."

Was he nagging about the chair? Absolutely! Was I calling him a nag about it? No, I was looking for solutions to his complaint. I was tired of hearing it, but only because I was making efforts to address it and couldn't resolve the issue.

Big difference between can't and won't.

On the flip side, my H felt nagged about taking me out on dates. I wanted to be dated. He said, "You don't DATE your WIFE!" Did I 'nag' by continuing to bring it up? Maybe so. I did vary my requests, like 'I'd like to see that movie, maybe we could go this weekend?' or 'So-and-so is playing at X bar on Friday, you want to go?' to, in response to his request to go shoot pool with the guys, 'I'd love to go shoot pool. How about if we all go?' etc and so on.

Without MB (Steve in particular), we may still be going rounds about the chair and dates. But can you see the difference between willingness and investment in our two situations? And which of us was labeled a 'nag' by the other?

Exactly.

It all comes down to "Complaints are good in a good marriage, and a nuisance in a bad marriage."

In my case, I was accused of nagging on a few occasions. What was I nagging about? Usually something that had to be done around the house, like fixing a leak, fixing a falling down ceiling(which incidentally didn't get fixed until it fell on me at 4am while I was sleeping). These are some examples that I can readily remember, I am CERTAIN there are more.

I would ask my WH when he was going to fix the (insert thing here), and he would say, "I'll get to it." I would bring it up again in a day, or tww, and I would get the same answer until one day I would get, "Stop nagging me, I know what I need to do." So, I wouldn't say anything. But inside, I was ANGRY. It would build resentment, and the more things that my WH didn't do, the more angry I got.

What was the real complaint in this though? It was that I didn't feel care for, taken care of, validated, heard. I felt dismissed, unimportant. THOSE were the real complaints and the real issues I should have been discussing with my WH.

Now, I know how MB marriages are much better than the one I was living. That gives me great joy, even if I am not currently one of the people enjoying these splendid unions, I know they're out there. I see them on these boards all of the time.

Scotland, it sounds to me like your focus on your H doing those things blinded you to other solutions.

Certainly, there were other ways that things could have been done around the house. I could have done it myself, if I had the knowledge and were capable. I could have asked someone else to do it. I could have even paid someone. However, my WH wouldn't allow anyone else to do these things when I would approach him about it. Actually, I used to tell my friends that the best way to get their husbands to do the home repairs that they didn't do, they should start doing them themselves. That was the surefire way to see my WH do the things I wanted without complaint.

As I said, I did NOT have an MB marriage, as I am CERTAIN the couple in the article doesn't have either.

I bet you a buffalo nickel that Dr. Harley has met THOUSANDS. And more arrive every week right here on this forum.


You are correct here. It's called withdrawal.


How often?

Does he recommend employing Angry Outbursts, Disrespectful Judgements, or Selfish Demands?


Agreed.


Rhetorical.

A person lacking MB language, or better ways to express that their spouse is employing Angry Outbursts, Disrespectful Judgements, and Selfish demands may, in fact, refer to their spouse as a "nag."

A more prepared MBer will might have the knowledge and tools to call Love Busters what they are, the uninitiated or newbie will not.

That is entirely stupid to ask if SH recommends employing AOs, DJs, and SDs.

Seriously? Are you seriously asking that question?

And you say that my honest question was rhetorical? WOW.

Because you clearly missed it, people who are actively involved in creating a better marriage don't claim that their complaining spouses are nags.

I think it is highly dangerous to newcomers to make complaining a NAUGHTY. Harping on stuff you could hire out? Sure, I agree that is naughty. But telling your spouse, hey look buddy, if you want me to be in love with you, you need to pay attention to what I am saying, is not naughty.

It is needed.

Sorry, HHH, that I am a bit hot on this subject. I was being nagged about household stuff while I was asking for intimate stuff and was being held up as The Bad Guy until we got SH involved.

If your spouse is constantly nagging you about your lack of meeting their needs of affection, conversation, sexual fulfillment, or recreation, PAY ATTENTION!

Lack of attention in those areas are costly.

Lack of honestly is costly.

Hiring someone to clean the house or fix the roof is cheap, comparitively. Very cheap.

If you are nagging your spouse about their failure to meet your intimate needs, get creative. Entice. If you are nagging them about non-intimate needs, see above. Much less costly than divorce.

If your spouse was reluctant to meet ENs, and you "nagged" them about it, how long would you "nag" until you gave up? What would you do if your "nagging" wasn't listened to?

I DON'T agree that someone needs to be in withdrawal to call their spouses a "nag." As a matter of fact, I would think that would fall more closely in with the conflict stage, TBH. At least, in my sitch, that was a fighting word.

When one doesn't know about MB, they do what they think is best. At a moment when someone calls their spouse a "nag" it is most likely their TAKER talking, and wanting to get a direct HIT. It's definitely NOT right, and MB shows ways to improve your marriage.

I think that is the real difference between "nagging" and "complaining." Nagging is about a topic, a complaint is about an issue.

To answer Pep's thread title, I believe "nagging" IS a marriage killer. People who nag don't know any better. They aren't showing care to their spouses. Being called a "nag" is also harmful to marriage.

Just my .02

It's cool. I believe you have added a lot to the conversation. In fact, I would say most of our disagreement is semantic; what is a complaint vs what is nagging.

My view is thus; nagging involves using Love Busters, multiple complaints at one time, or constant and frequent complaint. None of those is involved with MB.

In fact, you and Scotty brought up a fantastic solution; if it is THAT important to you, find a resolution for it.


I can tell you that NGB and I nagged each other for time, and all it did was create a wedge in our marriage.

Damn it ! I just wrote a brilliant post and it went away !!!

So do I.

I didn't nag because it made ME feel ugly.

I did have a way of "showing" my late husband though.

One time, the bathtub faucet was dripping. It started out as an errant drip or two then progressed to something more.

I "mentioned" to him that it was dripping and I asked if he could repair it. He assured me that he would...but a couple days went by and he hadn't.

One night I slid the shower curtain back and closed off the drain so that all the water could accumulate in the tub. When he got up the next morning and saw the water in the tub he realized just how much water was wasted everyday with that drip.
He couldn't get those tools out fast enough!

I always tried to find ways that lead him to the obvious conclusion.

committed

Patience may not work.
It might, but I doubt it.
I believe perseverance of pursuing a well defined goal is the better way to go.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I've been chewing on the difference between annoying nagging and healthy marital complaining .... chew chew chew.

I think I might know where the "money is" !

Healthy marital complaining has a well thought out goal to improve the marriage. It is deliberate and thoughtful.

Nagging is less inclined to have an overall goal to improve the marriage.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Back to you Wise1.............


There is nothing wrong with what you said.
However, I do think it could be improved and therefore more effective !

Imagine you said this:

"Less profanity would improve our marriage."

It would be difficult for him to locate offense phrased that way. More thoughtful purpose on your part. More marriage goal focused.

If H bristles at something .... hug him and say "I hope you did not think I was attacking you. I want this marriage to be dynamic and sexy."

When you use a positive goal in your complaining .... reinforcement for improvement can be easily overlooked.

"Less profanity would improve our marriage."

This good marital behavior must be acknowledged !
When H goes several hours without profanity, go up to him with his favorite beverage in hand and say "Thank you for keeping me happy today. It's so sexy when you care for me." If H asks you what you mean .... "You cleaned up the language for me. It's just so sexy when you do that."


Also, Wise1, when things are going well between you .... come up with several funny alternatives H can say to replace profanity. Tell H that the purpose is to make you laugh. Have some fun.

*like*

Random thought; nagging is cowardly.


WHAT?


Nagging. Is cowardly.


Let's say the complaint is "You don't spend enough time with me."


That is not what the nag says.



The nag says;


"I'm going to throw your computer out the window! Rabbagh rabbagh rabbagh!"

"I hate your friend Johnny! Why does he always have to call you!"

"Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! GOLF IS SOOOOOOOOOOO STUPID!"


They do not say; "I would love it if you would spend a little time with me."

They attack the perceived things/habits which they believe are the barrier between them and their goal.



Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, Wise1;

Are you telling me that you stand there while your H has an angry outburst, and try to get him to stop cursing?

Did I hear that right?


Why, for the love of Pete, are you standing there trying to deal with someone in the middle of an angry outburst? Do you wish to join the insane in their insanity?

If his bad language is a "tell" that he is having an angry outburst, it's a waste of time to try to get him to listen about his profanity, HE'S NOT GONNA LISTEN!

You'd be better off to say; "I'm not going to speak to you while you are angry, we can discuss this later."

Patience ain't gonna change him, sister. Not standing there trying to fix him in the middle of an AO, no longer being in his presence because of his AOs, will work better.