It seems to me that the problem here is that you don't know what you want. Your WH wants to give the relationship another go. You have said that you also want to give it another go. But it seems you are not sure.

If you do want to try again, you would probably have to do the following (I hope the vets will check this and flesh it out a bit more, I am really a newbie in MB and only replied to your post because it reminded me so much of my father):

1. Expose more widely. How about his friends? Other relatives? Anyone who has some influence on his life? How about your relatives? Do they know? Wide exposure will not only make him realise his behaviour is dirty rather than exciting, it may also bring you a host of allies who will keep an eye on him for you.

BTW, what were the DDs' responses to finding out about their father?

2. Tell H you want to know everything about his past (and what happened today in OW's town). Check his stories against what his exs and other people say. Tell the MB forum what he says, they are incredibly good at sniffing out where a wayward is being slippery with the truth. On the basis of this, work out a series of questions for the polygraph. Inform your WH that failure at any of the questions will be a dealbreaker. Be sure that you mean this. If you are not prepared to stand by your boundaries, then no one can help you.

3. If he passes the test, give him a list of Extraordinary Precautions:
* no going to OW town
* no nights apart
* no female friends
* open access to all forms of communication
Maybe other posters can come up with more EPs

4. If he agrees to the EPs, let him return home. But monitor and snoop relentlessly. He has to do lots and lots of hard work to ensure you feel safe. He must know that any contravention will lead to Plan D.

BUT if you don't want to try again, you should go into Plan B, or Plan B+D; the Plan B aspect will protect you from his crying and guilt-tripping and allow you to heal faster.

I think you are right to feel very very wary. Your WH has had a 7 year relationship with OW, and was having an active sexual relationship with her for at least 1.5 years of your 2.5 year marriage. He clearly has feelings for her. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he's gone underground. He wants his cake and to eat it, it seems that all waywards do.

If he (WH) were to begin a thread on this forum, would you all reply to him? I think he would be willing to do that.

Great.
Some tweaking is sometimes necessary.
Hopefully you will feel better real soon.

winn, we would post to anybody who posts here for help.

But don't make him read this forum yet! He is still wayward, and we are advising you on the specifics of spying on him. Do not blow your chance to find out what he is doing!

If he comes here while still wayward, it will be done to try and appease you and fool you into thinking he has reformed. If it wasn't for the spying aspect, I would say send him here, and we can disabuse him of the notion that he is clever and can manipulate you, and that his affair is glamorous. However, since we need to talk you through spying and Plan B, you should keep him away from here for now.

He understands plain English, right?
You're not using $5 words, are you?
(lame joke to lift your depression)


Lemme tell you what we know.
Liars lie.
Liars figure out what your need is. You desperate need. You weakest point.
Liars use that need/weakness as their entry point.
They tell you want they know you want to hear.
A little tear may even fall from his eye.

Your WH knows exactly what you have told him in the past.
He does not think you will back up your words with actions.
All bark, no bite, yanno?

Lemme tell you what else we know.
The weaker you are, the more likely WH will recognize how much you desperately NEED him.
If he recognizes how much you need him, he knows he can get away with breaking promises.
One by one. Boundaries fall.
Little by little. Lines are crossed.
Always with a good 'reason'. A good 'excuse'. A good 'story'.
Always making you look crazy for not believing him.
This liar/boundary breaker will accuse you of all sorts of things in order to deflect away from his responsibility to protect his own boundaries.

Some alcoholics are what is known as "low bottom drunks".
Meaning, they have to experience the loss of everything before they stop drinking.
Some waywards are also "low bottom" cheaters.
Nothing short of the loss of everything they have (wife/home/family/security/shared history) convinces them they need to change.

The faithful spouse of a low bottom wayward often thinks that if ony their wayward knew/understood how much the marriage means to the faithful spouse that the wayward would change his ways.

Actually, the opposite is true in low bottom waywards.
The more the low bottom wayward is convinced you really want this marriage to work, the more he realizes he can get away with laziness and shifty behaviors.

No one here knows for certain if your WH is close to his 'bottom point'.
All things thus far point to "not yet".
Sorry.

This does not make your situation hopeless.
Knowing your WH is not near his 'bottom' does serve as a guide for your future plans.

Never stand between a wayward and his worst moments/consequences.
Those moments/consequences are often the only true motivators for real change.

WDM .... Never (I say NEVER) make any threat or promise you do not intend to carry through in short order.
That is the biggest error that the faithful spouse can make with a 'low bottom' wayward.

100 % agree.

Winn, this marvellous post carries the flag proudly in true MB vet style. Please listen. There's a lot of experience behind these words.


I am (again) impressed by this forum.

Like Sugarcane and Pepperband, I also think that it's not the time to tell your WH to come here. YOU need to do some work here. YOU need to impress on him what you want and need.

And for what it's worth, and I'm sure there are many good things to meds, it's probably good to ease back on your meds. Emotions give good self-protective clues (eg danger = fear), you need to get to the point that you still recognise those clues and can deal with them rationally. If you're out of it, you have no frame of reference (your essential emotional self).

I was ready to take anti-depressants myself a month ago, so I am not against them, BTW.

GO, I'd just like to say that I think your posts are excellent.

On this one, though, you've missed the fact that WH has already gone to OW's town. He is there today. winn should have delivered your speech before he left. Now I think she needs to press ahead with divorce.

...WH has already gone to OW's town. He is there today. winn should have delivered your speech before he left.

I skipped over this in my last post, because I often seem like the hammer of hades on this board.

WDM, you "lied" (by omission) to us on this board. To have gotten the best we had to offer, you should have told us before WH lefty to visit Skankytown. We would have armed you with the "steel" to display to him, making manifest the results of the path he was taking.

You did not tell us until he was gone. The only assumption was that you chose not to receive the advice that would have necessitated your taking firm and resolute action on his intentions.

No, we need you to give him your conditions. That comes from you, not us.

Guess I'm the one who is in the "fog" thinking that nothing would happen in OW town because WH assured me he would be with WW and her DH. I went through this 9 years ago....what am I thinking? God help me find my strength....
MB guys, don't leave me.....

Not sure where you got the idea that anyone here at MB would leave you, but you can dispel that notion now. This board's sole reason for existence is to help people just like you. People here really do care. Hang in there.

Thank you so much, Tiger Wes! I know that is what yall are here for.

Go ahead and bring on 2X4s, questions, advice, anything...Just PLEASE don't leave me.

What exactly do you hope to accomplish? Are you really trying to save this?

Winn, there are many of us watching you. You are getting the best advice possible. No one will leave you, doll. But many will hold you accountable. Got that? . Listen...And then do. Stick to the plan.

Now, snap to. Get it together...got that?

Aye aye captain!
Here's the deal....just summarizing weeks of our conversations on MB. There is little foundation to build a M on due to lies told before and during M. Lies told before led me to believe H to be a different person than what I married. That has been stripped away. I am now married to a man that is a serial cheater. What kind of M is this? Can a WH like this be changed. Some of you said you have seen it done through MB counseling. WH has signed a 14 mo. lease and is moving out next weekend. We visited a good counselor (seemingly MBish) who is willing to help WH get a grip on the serial cheating, and how to do the work to end that madness, if possible. I will not be investing my energy into a reconciliation until I find out what kind of person he is. I want to get a list of questions together for a poly. This will tell me what I have to work with. When he is moved out I will have a better handle on things. Right now, as you all can see, I am very emotional and waffling on what to do. His moving out will be pivotal....
Can anyone add anything to this?