No, no, no.

Mike is NOT on board with MB. Mike is on board with using secondary gain as an excuse to do whatever he wants, and Mike is on board with expecting his wife to adhere to MB.

He's cherry picking, and he doesn't care; about himself, about his wife, about his marriage.

He's content to justify his behavior with anger, and content to justify his anger by bringing up the affair when it's convenient to his moods and motives.

Good luck with that, Mike.

Mb requires a high level of contempt ignorance.

And HHH, I prefer to spoken to and not in the 3rd person on my thread.

She spent over half our marriage with her boyfriend. I'll be angry until I'm not angry anymore.

I asked someone here when this anger has happened.

He doesn't like to answer polite questions.

The reason for the question is to see if someone's anger is algining with the well known anger phase. As with the well know HB phase not everyone has one but enough do to recognise that phase.

Many a BS after the six month mark are they have processed what happened during the affair and are now feeling secure enough that the affair is dead, their WS is not leaving the marriage and family.

So the BS feels secure enough to let themselves get angry at their WS.

This anger phase lasts about six months.

Now when someone is a rageaholic maybe a talk with the Harley's can help pull them off the anger ledge.


MSS,
It may sound good and a form of just compenation (a phrase that I have trouble with myself) but when you think it through to hate someone as long as the affair lasted will not help even the score. The score will never be even. The score can only be forgotten.

Think this through lets say your 35 (don't no your age or length of the PA) the affair went on for ten years, lets through in that you did not have a dday for 5 years after the PA end.

15 years total.

So you think its a good idea to hate your WW for 15 years. You'll be 50 by then with middle aged sex equipment and you're going to expect WW to say good BH is over the anger phase now we can start recovery.

I'll be angry until I'm not angry anymore...

...and then I'll realize, regretfully,

• the extent of the permanent damage done to my family
• the difference in my own life-quality in the meantime

while I luxuriated in my anger-thon.

Dude, this is ALL on you. There is nothing that FWW can do now to help. In a thread on "Other Topics" Pep and I debated the utility of rage, with me being the proponent (Big shock!). The difference between that discussion and this one is that there the purpose to assembling a sizable amount of angry energy was to use it as a tool, either self-directed or externally, to fuel the drive to bring about a needed action or change.

You have NOTHING that you say you would have FWW do (today) to assist you. Your rage is purposeless, and by such, is wasteful of your own mental/emotional energy.

You don't (Can't? Won't?) avail yourself of the benefits of this site by internalizing (as opposed to acknowledging) the good advice you've received over the nine months of your tenancy here, but here's a recap of some of the salient points:

• Of the tri-partite women in your life, two (the innocent bride, and the bj-for-jewelry tart) are both dead and gone. You might want to make a life with the third.
• The future is the only part of your life that you can control.
• E-A-O-T-P

It would be well for you to recite these on rising each morning, and during the day whenever appropriate.

Mike,

It's ok to have contempt. As long as it's directed at the right thing/person/actions.

Hold contempt for the affair
hold contempt for your wayward spouse (NOT your FORMER wayward spouse)
Hold contempt for the OM if you must
hold contempt towards selfishness, towards lying and deceit, towards the enablers of affairs
Hold contempt for secrecy and greed and all the rest of the crap that goes with affairs.

But it's not ok to remain holding a former spouse you are pledging/promising to reconcile with in contempt.

No MB-er advocates being ignorant of contempt. To any level. But here's the thing... When you have a spouse who's willing to reconcile after their affair and you have committed to working reconciliation with them, you are promising to no longer hold them in contempt.

There is an end-goal that is coupled with putting all these safe-guards in place... It's called forgiveness.

Now I am a person who is prone to anger. Back in the day, I was the guy that would just as soon knocked the (*&^ outta someone for even looking my wife's way than to talk to them. Actually, I was kinda that way about everything. Took me years to overcome the anger and exercise self control.

It all went out the window when I discovered my wife's A's (which by the way spanned nearly half our marriage by Dday, not continuously physical, but the lies, deceit, etc.. remained).

I was angry... I beat the OM (2x), and on one occasion I hit my wife. That's where anger leaves you. In the crapper. Left unchecked and self-justified, anger leads you into the crapper. It left me with this realization:

"I am the same as my former wayward wife." Different actions to be sure, but the same heart. I had become selfish, self-justifying, I began lying to justify my behavior, I was exercising independent behavior... In short, I was entitled.

Thing is, Mike, is that our entitlement never justifies our mistreating of another person (or ourselves for that matter). Even if it is just in words or attitude.

Now I suspect you never went as far as I did. That's good. I applaud that. But hanging on to anger towards a FWS who is working (note I did not say being angry at the affair or over what happened)will eat you alive and keep you constantly triggered.

I see you hanging on, mike, but to a lot of the wrong things. I see you hanging on to blood-money (which is a constant trigger, even though you don't see it), I see you hanging on to DJ's (in the form of not POJA-ing with your wife in regards to contact with OMW.. Which BTW is also a trigger possibility), and you are hanging on to your anger. You are giving it life and breath. You are fueling it.


The truth is, reconciliation requires the opposite of all this.

It requires humility and meekness (not humiliation and being a push-over). And this is not weakness, but strength. It shows that even though I can exact payment --any payment I deem necessary-- I will instead show firmness and gentleness... Even towards a person who once secretly plotted against me.

It means swallowing the pride that is misplaced and puffed up in our own minds. So we don't fall into the same temptation as our FWS

It means that instead of nurturing our hurt, we need to work towards fostering our own healing and recovery. It's the difference between enduring something and working through something.

Like I said, I'm rooting for you. I WANT you to succeed.

Mike, did I miss the answer to this?

CV

I was wondering the same thing that CV brings up, Mike, in terms of wondering if you really wanted to stay in this marriage.

To add another layer of perspective, what jumps out at me is this: I don't think you have any respect for your wife currently. It is impossible, IMO, to be in-love with someone you do not respect. And of course, when you aren't in-love, things that bother you take on a higher level of disdain.

Am I saying you SHOULD respect your wife? I understand that she has to earn that after what she did. But, I believe that you have to WANT to allow her to earn that back and give her the chance to, or else none of this is going to work, esp. after 9 months.

Sometimes this takes time and yes, there are phases of anger that are typical in this whole process and they are OK - and even healthy in ways. As CV pointed out, however, it's important to be angry at the right things. I also believe, personally, that bitterness is different than anger. Bitterness can destroy reconciliation pretty easily.

In my case, I always knew that standing, whip in hand, ready to beat my husband at the hint of a mistake or trigger would never work. We would need to be a team if real healing was going to take place. This involves us always working together and not against one another. I had to learn to guard my thoughts and what I said about him - and attack the actions, not the man, when anger struck. That's the only way I could allow my heart (and head) to respect him and thus love him again.

I reserve the right to grow my love and affection my wife and make life long decisions for myself at the speed of my choosing.

Yes, NG, I have said a million times in my posts, Mrs. mss has done all she can do. This is my rage, my problem. Only affects her in the silent treatments and palpable anxiety I bring to the home.

There is no rage in terms of AO'ing. At least being able to AO would allow me to vent, Im forced as per doctrine to not AO and thus it gets bottled up inside. And then I come onto this site and let loose. Which we can agree is better than getting in her face and letting her have it.

Im mad at HAVING to be mad. I want to go 10 minutes without the image of my wife getting into his car off to a dinner then hotel. And lots of other images.

Im in a bad low point in this hate/love/forgive/reconcile/moving on cycle.

RESPECT. Thats a good one, Sunny. Im working on it. Im not going to recap a long affair story but the moral of it is this woman had ZERO for me and just about the same for herself. So, because her bonehead boyfriend was dumb enough to get his movie making career derailed by his wife and his video'ing of my wife performing was uncovered that I should all of a sudden have respect for her?

I know it and he knows it and my wife knows it (but denies it), even if my wife ended the babysitting gig and wasnt under his employ, all he would have to do is dangle a fancy dinner and she'd be his. Respect? THIS COULD HAVE GONE ON FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES.

And, CV and Sunny, if Jr. was off to college tomorrow leaving an empty nest, I cant say for sure what I would do. Luckily, I have an eight year window to erase some pretty lousy memories. So, right now, and for the last 9 months, Ive done as much as I can muster in terms of MB strategy towards a better marriage.

Short of having OMs baby, I find her actions towards me and my kids particularly egregious. There was a level of "could not care less about them" attitude during the affair that I only realized after dday that I cannot overcome. She allowed this man into my home and my children grew a love for him and his baby!!! Heck, I LIKED HIM.

She was despicable, really.

Like a lot of things in my life I am very conflicted about my marriage. I love her today because she has turned into someone I would love to be my wife. I am irate that she could not stop the affair long ago or tell me she wanted out much when they discussed back then.

Bad day(s). I'll be OK.

Oh, CV, I dream daily of an accidental run-in with OM so I can re-arrange his face. I imagine it at a Target or Best Buy. And, man, the legal ramifications will be something I will deal with while I think about a bashed nose or maybe a missing tooth.

He must know its coming. (I did ask OMW a few conversations ago if he was spending extra time in the gym to bulk up. Not that it would matter, Id be able to handle nearly anyone in that situation.)

But, right now its a fantasy and probably will only be a fantasy.

I empathize w/ you, Mike. I'm battling the awful visions, trying to keep them at bay. All the best advice coming my way is to move on to today & the future, and the past is the past, we can't change it. We have choices on how to live the rest of our lives.
A line from a favorite song (No more cloudy Days - the Eagles)is, "I believe in second chances..." I expect time will warm up our hearts. Good luck, my friend.

Mike,

I know your story enough from all the reading here - so, I do understand what you are feeling on the respect issue. I'm not saying it should just be given! I'm saying there has to be a spirit of wanting it to be there and acknowledging it when it is shown present day.

I can only imagine that your wife had zero self-respect when she got involved with OM. It sounds like she is trying to do things currently that allow her redemption in the respect department.

I wish you success in finding the will to recover. I can tell you this much from my own experience: trying to recover while taking shortcuts is very difficult - and why people find themselves together but unrecovered (and heading for divorce) several years down the road after the affair.

I believe every BS has the right to say they cannot recover after their spouse cheats. It's a perfectly acceptable response to adultery. But if you choose reconciliation - do it right or else you just screw yourself over forever. And yes, time sometimes changes that outlook. I'm 15 months out in terms of recovery and every now and then I still have to count the positives and negatives of choosing recovery when I trigger.

Thanks Dude and Sunny,

Im having a moment. Is all.

I reserve the right to grow my love and affection my wife and make life long decisions for myself at the speed of my choosing.

Fair enough. My only point will continue to be that the "choosing" would best be done by the MSS who writes here about the pain of the conflict, and not by a mere shadow of MSS composed of his baser impulses. (Oh, that reptilian brain again!)

And hopefully they are becoming fewer and more far between. Once you get rid of those two big triggers you will begin seeing faster change in your attitude. Just my thoughts on this, but I think at 9 months you should have a clearer idea of where you are headed with (or without) your wife.

CV

Tell me then, Mike, why I should spend my time trying to reason with a person who is temporarily insane?

You show no indication of wanting to listen, or in wanting to apply the MB principals to yourself.

And then? Then you state that MB requires "contempt and ignorance."

No, sir. It requires surrendering your contempt, it requires surrendering your ignorance.

You are choosing contempt; for your wife, for this program. You are being wilfully ignorant to justify your own lack of care.


Here is the total sum of your choices; recover your marriage, or don't.

Side note; for our ignorance to be anything other than willful, requires innocence.

You and I no longer have the luxury of innocence. It was taken from us.

Had to move my thoughts here so not to intrude of another's thread. My reaction to a great post by NG:

Discipline is what's lacking. Never doubted all of the good intentions and gospel of what MB is about. Im armed with the information on what I need to do and my wife certainly has shown a remarkable amount of MB wherewithal throughout.

So faith in you people and knowledge of the what to do has never been at issue.

Having the discipline to follow the path. Can one be taught discipline?, or is one born disciplined?, can one suddenly HAVE some discipline??

The more I think about it, these books and teachings are about discipline in the face of a major obstacle (in this case: adultery.)

Following a course (knowledge), belief the end result is obtainable (faith), and an unwavering eye on the prize (discipline) are holy trinity of recovery from anything.

Its in this last piece, Im faltering badly at times. I lose focus and let a miniscule particle of data in a long period of time set me back into the dark ages. Something from my vivid imagination, ususally never confirmed, can weaken my resolve and put me and my family on edge and anxious.

Having a zen-like ability to RE-CALCULATE when my inner GPS gets off track is something Im striving for but am eluded by. I want it. She wants it. How is I cant stay on the straight and narrow path of MB tenets? I lack a discipline I read in others who've been there before. I wont list names but the sure know who they are.

I have more work to do in my recovery for sure.

But, NG, your point is well take again.

Mike, you've got it all right there in front of you. Grab it and don't let go.

Being disciplined takes... well... discipline. Ok, that's not a good definition. Being disciplined means repetition of a task or thought or philosophy. It means constant practice and study. Since you mentioned zen, let me use kung fu as an analogy...

Masters aren't born. There may be natural inclination in some areas, but they require constant practice and study until the moves flow and become second nature. So they can perform, act and react in a certain way without thinking.

So... discipline yourself! Oh... and acknowledge that it takes time to do it too. A master is not born overnight.

CV

Military men learn discipline primarily through accountability; to themselves, to their squad, to their CO.

Through this accountability, however, what is formed is NOT discipline, but HABITS.

There is a single fault in relying on self-discipline; willpower.

Applying self-discipline requires the use of willpower - and willpower is a limited resource.

Think similarly to the Love Bank model... a willpower bank. Every time you practice some form of restraint, you are removing units of willpower from your stock. Not gonna eat the cookies you really want to eat? That subtracts units. Not gonna scream at the a-hole who cut you off in traffic (but want to)? That subtracts units.

Eventually, you run into an issue of restraint which requires more will than you have to give... and you simply don't restrain yourself.

This can also be applied to doing things you don't want to do - it requires willpower to do things you do not want to, or do not like to.


So, what's exhausting your willpower?