Divorce shouldnt be an idle threat - divorcing him is a fact he should be aware of unless you are willing to put up with cake eating. Are you?

Plan doormat will not work. He will use you. He will let you meet some needs, the OW will meet needs too, until he finally decides to leave having dragged you through hell.

But if you stop being a doormat, he might see something to respect. Plan A is not Plan Nice/Plan Doormat - It is Plan Look How Amazing I am and You Are Going to Lose Me.

If you say: 'See her again and you will be in a nasty divorce and we will not be friends afterwards'
and he says 'I want to leave you anyway'
You say 'That's right you will lose me this way'

And carry on with your day.

What do you have to lose? Plan A usually needs Plan B also but can work on its own when the betrayed spouse is FIRM. Plan B sometimes works on the marriage but saves the BS 100 per cent of the time. Plan doormat ALWAYS fails.

Stop listening to him and work on your plans to remove yourself from this abusive behaviour

indiegirl and MelodyLane, you guys are awesome, thank you. I was laughing particularly with indiegirl, and I needed that.

Today I'm feeling very worn down. Angry, teary, vulnerable, and not showing it to him, so I think I need to take care of myself, but of course this has consumed my life so I feel like I can't take my eye off the ball for a second. I feel like I'm making a ton of mistakes and am a bit lost. He came home last night and has been open and affectionate. But he spent the weekend with his whore and came back under the spell. We kept saying we didn't want to talk, but it was nice to just be in each other's presence, comforting, that some things came out. Like the marriage is over for him, he feels that being together is comforting but that he has this nugget of angst. I said�probably a mistake�that I agree there's no hope as long as he's committing adultery. I was trying to do the stick a bit, not shield him from what he's doing. Of course he said all the cliche babble about how he could never give her up for a marriage where there's nothing for him he wants. So I'm telling myself not to listen, though today it's just damn hard. Of course he's still lusting after me and I don't quite know how to use that effectively as a carrot without him just going back to OW to get his sex fix; convincing him that he was only in the marriage bc he lusted after me. The carrot:stick examples definitely help. I think sending him the recovery plan was a mistake that has only set him further in his ways with the prospect of facing all his destruction and pushed him closer to her. I feel like I've got a pathological need to blame myself for this and it's making me crazy.

No kids. But god I've always wanted them with him. We've been such great aunt/uncles and so I've always wanted to parent with him.

What do I say to my husband if he keeps asking me to leave in his irrational, vacillating state?
Good god terrifying. I don't want a divorce!

How do I connect with him when he's out fostering his love with her? What do I do when he comes back from being with her all disconnected and romantically destructive?
+ exposure?
We have no kids and he is totally romanticizing destruction! His mom is a kook (who never moved on from her own divorce) and is probably romanticizing it as well to him.

How does exposure win him back? Humiliation? This guy is pretty self righteous and arrogant to begin with. I feel like this will just harden his position and make me open to the abuse of those who would defend him with my weaknesses. Basically, I'm too weak and afraid to do that.

LOL

I thought that for plan B to work he has to have some idea of what he's giving up and that's why plan A needs some time to work.
How do I do this? Sorry to be so dense but I'm just pretty lost at this point.

Generally, I think I need a little time to get this all together and take care of myself. In the meantime... I'm afraid of making things worse. Can I just not talk to him, take care of myself, until I'm ready to act?

3634, did you read our posts about separation? You shouldn't have anything to do with him right now because he is dangerous. You cannot force him to end his affair so the best you can do is remove yourself from the situation.


You don't connect with him. You don't connect with a drunk driver, you get out of the road. Your H is a drunk driver and the only thing you can do is get out of the road. You cannot reason with him and you cannot win him back as long as he is in an affair.

The only thing you do is deal a blow to the affair by exposing it and then get out of the way yourself.

Exposure is your best weapon against the affair because it has the effect of bringing in a crowd of people to the crack house to watch the crack heads get high! It is no fun to get high when everyone is watching.

I would expose the affair, change the locks and plan on a very long separation. Sorry you are in this mess.

Glad to hear your sense of humour is still working. That means you can plan A. It means you can Plan B. It means you can survive.



Course not! But you dont want to be used by a serial cheat forever either do you? If the latter were to happen you would divorce him. It's a fact. (I hope?) and one you are kind enough to warn him of. Arent you sweet? If only he had been as considerate and warned you of the danger of an A.



The house looks great, something smells good in the kitchen. You are wearing just his shirt (or something you know he likes), scent that drives him nuts,
Ahim if hes ok, tell him you love him. (If he wants sex tell him you cannot wait to have sex when he ends his A and describe just what) Otherwise.....Just when hes getting comfortable tell him you have written a copy of the NC letter you want him to write out to OW. Tell him to write it out and you will mail it. If he freaks tell him. 'Thats a shame, I dont want to get divorced'. Then leave. Take a bubble bath. Ignore him. Serve dinner.
Start looking for apartments online and ask him where he's going to live if he doesn't end his A. Put music headphones on. You dont care.

Or

Pack up his stuff into bags (stick) and tell him you are really worried about how he is going to manage without you (afffection)

There are tonnes of ways to combine stick and carrot.


Plan A is three weeks maximum for BWs. Its longer for women because men dont value anything they dont have to chase or work hard for.

Ah exposure is very important.

It is not to humiliate it is asking people to help you support the marriage.

Everyone he respects should be urging him to work on the marriage.

Even if they dont, it will be harder to lie to himself about the A being OK once 'everyone knows'

Even kooks can be useful in that sense.

Read MLs Exposure 101 thread so you do it the right way, not in a way that looks vindictive.

Sorry hon, time is not on your side re the A. The more abuse you take the weaker you will get too.

I would expose and insist he end the A before it becomes more entrenched. He needs to see you care enough to fight for him.

And you need to get into Plan B soon for the peace you crave.

I forgot he went off for the weekend with her so you need to take a stand - I would pack up his bags now (while looking good and saying you would LOVE to reconcile when he ends his A, too bad he isnt doing it).

Get into Plan B soon but Plan A up to the moment of Plan B. (Read my sig how to prepare for Plan B correctly)

It takes at least 24 hours to prepare for Plan B, you will also need to expose so I say you're about four days from Plan B. Thats plenty of time to Plan A effectively in the meantime.

1) gather exposure info - read ML's exposure link in her sig
2) spend a day doing exposure. All in one day for maximum effect.
3) Make your Plan B preps, (post your Plan B letter here for feedback)
4) Go into Plan B unless he commits to all your terms.

Ok so today I'm formulating the small talk where I explain that he has to leave her or all this disappears. We have to have some talking today to decide whether to cancel therapy tomorrow, which I am in favor with. My question is: is this the right time for that talk? The sooner the better? He's only been back for a day and a half from being with his whore. Yesterday made dinner, we had fun, I've been sexy, taking care of him, he's been talking about people going back to their first loves, "there's so much I like about you" even in his "this is over for me" state. He has a business meeting tonight closer to where the OW lives than to here. There' wouldn't be any talk and then more carrot/serving dinner, there would be a talk and then he'd leave, with uncertainty as to when he'd return. This is the stick of Plan A?

By the way, it will be 2 weeks on Wednesday since this started. So I'm still a week away from the three week mark. I feel like he needs more time in our home, no therapy.

3634, your oddly complacent attitude towards a husband who just spent the weekend shagging another woman is shocking and abnormal. Plan A does not mean you pretend you are ok with his abuse. Your complacence reflects a lack of CARING on your part. It looks to me you don't care if he goes off and shags some wh*re over the weekend. I am sure it looks that way to him too.

This is NOT Plan A. You should not delay your discussion with him at all. You should be DEMANDING that he end all contact for life or move out.

You can give him a week to get out. He needs to make a decision NOW to end his affair or he can have a week to get out. Don't play with this anymore. Plan A does not stand for appeasement and [censored] kissing.

Um, i hope you are having an STD test and there should be no sex until the affair is over. He could have AIDS for all you know.

Welcome, 3. I've been getting caught up on your thread. I find it interesting that you seem so determined to talk to your WH. Do you not yet realize that all this talking doesn't work with a wayward? As a matter of fact, it may have the opposite effect, so stop it.

Less is more, 3. Keep your words brief and let your actions speak. Expose this. Demand that he end the affair and commit to recovery. If he says no or tries to waffle, pack his things and tell him he'll need to go. Plan B.

And don't waste your money on the counselor. You don't need to go to a therapist to figure out the main problem the two of you are having right now: his affair. You don't need to discuss this with him. Cancel it. Let him know that you've cancelled the appointment. When he asks why, tell him that you have made the decision not to proceed with the therapy. That's all he needs to know.

Get ready for Plan B, sweetie.

I'm sorry I don't mean to be abnormal or shocking. I'm trying my best here but this is terrifying. This is just very different from what else I've read on the website & I'm trying to process, to understand. I'm new to this. I'm sorry but that was just hurt on top of hurt.

Hi maritalbliss, thanks for coming by. I told him today that this life of ours will not last, he needs to leave her. He got angry and said something like, do you know I have utter disregard for you. I expected the anger, I didn't believe anything he said, I got up and continued with my day. It all feels abnormal and shocking... How to get out of these habits of trying to make things better together and instead take charge, especially when he says I'm controlling. Yea, ignore him... He's out with her tonight but before he left he expressed a thread of remorse, though brushed it off the second he felt it. He's in such a state of repressed emotions even though he thinks it's the opposite. OMFG I'm losing my mind.

Please please if you comment on this thread do not judge me and call me names. I'm here for help and am no expert like the rest of you.

I'm planning for Plan B. I want to see a lawyer first to know how to protect myself. Financially I'm dependent. And I'm studying exposure. I think he is seeing Plan A as a kind of reward... Until I yank it away.

Perfect. Remember to Plan A right up unril Plan B. Also that Plan A is carrot AND stick.

So my Exposure is all set and I was going to send it off tonight as my H is off with OW, but then I was listening to Dr Harley and he said that Exposure is part of the swift and hard justice of Plan B. So I don't do Exposure until I'm ready to separate? But all the other materials say to expose asap?

Eeek I reeally want to do it now but my Plan B is not completely in place.

Exposure is done in Plan A. That's one of the "Sticks" of Plan A. Please go back and read what Pepperband wrote you about the "Carrot and Stick of Plan A."

You do not need to be ready for Plan B when you expose. Many affairs are busted because of exposure.

You get ready for Plan B, though, while you are in Plan A, so that you know you have a way out when your mental and physical state begin to deteriorate from the stress and the abuse of living with the ongoing adultery.

Just do the exposure. Be prepared to hear a lot of anger and fog-babble from your wayward spouse once it hits the fan, so keep a calm exterior.

Exposure also will give you some very needed support.

Ah ok I see it's in the stick part of Plan A. Odd that Dr Harley said it was Plan B. Anyway, here are my letters:

To her employer/his former employer:
Dear team,

It grieves me to write this letter but I thought you all should be aware that OW has been conducting an affair with my husband and former employee H. This began when she started at September and was consummated in January (before H was laid off) as far as I know. It may have been well before as I had trusted them both. They have certainly used their company relationship and company time to carry out their affair. H and I have been together for almost 10 years and married for almost 3 (link to our gorgeous wedding photos).

I would ask that you use your influence on her to persuade her to leave my husband alone. She is no friend as she pretended to be mine, and no friend to marriage. You should also watch your own husbands, wives, girlfriends, and boyfriends around her.

Thank you,

Letter to friends and fam:
Dear friends and family,

I am writing you this message as because you are a friend in the lives of H and I. As some of you know, H has recently been considering ending our marriage, which has caught me completely off guard and been extremely painful. To my despair, the reason is because he has been carrying on an affair with a coworker OW which sarted in September and was comsummated--as far as I know--last month. Now the purpose of ending the relationship is so that he can carry on his affair as well as sleep with other women without my interference.

He refuses to end the affair. We have been together for almost 10 years and married for almost 3 (link to photos/). I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on my husband, please do what you can to get him to stop this dangerous affair. I want to stay married, but the affair must end.

As our friends and family, I am asking that you use your influence with H to persuade him to end his affair. Please support our marriage.

I would so appreciate your support.

Yours,

Former colleagues via FB:
Dear ________,

It grieves me to write this letter but I thought as their colleague you should be aware that OW has been conducting an affair with my husband and former employee H. This began when she started at xxx and was consummated in January as far as I know. It may have been well before as I had trusted them both. H and I have been together for almost 10 years and married for almost 3 (gorgeous photos link/).�

I would ask that you use your influence on her to persuade her to leave my husband alone.�She is no friend as she pretended to be mine, and no friend to marriage.�

Please use any of your influence with H to persuade him to end his affair. Please support our marriage. He refuses to end the affair. I want our marriage to recover from this affair. I want to stay married, but the affair must end.

I would so appreciate your support.

Yours,