Thank you! I have a lot of moments where I feel like it's not working, but I get reminded that it's not just for my WW, it's for me too. Today we are taking the kids out to celebrate the boys birthday. My W left for 30 minutes to supposedly go to the store and when she got back I was upset. I asked her what took her so long. I knew she wouldn't be truthful, but I asked anyway. I had to let it go after her answer because I was about to do some serious LB. Hopefully we can have a good time. I have to push through the pain.

SS - I agree. From what I can tell, my WW is still consumed by her A as well.

I think GJM is doing very well.

I've been in the information technology filed for over 20 years. While I used to love technology and still do for the most part, this whole ordeal has made me much more jaded towards it. Especially social networking. I long for the day when the the epicenters of earthquakes are right beneath Facebook's datacenters.

Facebook...

GJM, caught up with your thread. There are similarities, but much of them I realize are standard wayward script.

One underlying theme I've noticed throughout your story is your wife stays in touch with you and responds back. You do dinners together, and have started to do things together, bowling for example. Comparing this to my stich, I think this is a HUGE positive in your favor. Your wife WANTS to remain in contact with you.

I would give anything if my WW would text me anything non kids/finance related. However, I had been doing a very, very weak/unofficial Plan B since she moved out. And I'm changing to Plan A since posting here, so maybe her communication with me will improve going forward.

Something else too, is from everything I can tell, my wife is still in an active A. Whereas your wife, it's not so obvious. My take is you did such a thorough job of trouncing her A with the OM, that I think that's pretty much a thing of the past. I don't know if I'd put much credibility in the emails with any other guys. And the reason for that is, she keeps coming back to you!

She accepted your invitation for Valentines Day. That speaks volumes! At the very least it tells me that no OM is actively in the picture.

I'd love to ask my WW out for Valetines Day, because we always did something. But with her in an active A, that's just asking to be shot down - I would think.

I have some ideas on how I would proceed with my situation if my wife was as responsive to Plan A as yours. I don't want to post it because I would probably gets beaten up by the vets here. , but if you're curious or would like some food for thought, let me know and I will post it.

I'm always interested in anyone's ideas SW. Everyone here sees what I don't see in one way or another. Take yesterday for example; we took the boys and dd for go karts and mini golf for the boys birthday. My w didn't come near me or initiate conversation. She was on her phone a lot. At dinner she was on her phone. We went bowling and she was on her phone there too. She joked here and there, but the kids get mad when they see her constantly on her phone.

And what can I say to my w about her lack of attentiveness to me and the kids? Nothing...as soon as I say anything, it's defensive mode.

My 12 year old and I watched my wife, younger son and daughter drive the go karts and a kid crashed into DS9 and then my W crashed into the back oh him. DS12 looked at me and said "karma". Poor DS9 had some scratches on his neck from the seat belt and hit his head. My wife hurt her neck also.

DS 12 got to spend the weekend with me. It's my Ws week, but she let him stay with me. She will be coming over for the super bowl later. I hope I can Plan A well today. Yesterday was pretty upsetting to me.

I didn't realize that your W was not paying as close attention as she was in the past. My WW was on her phone ALOT, leading up to D-Day and when she was still at home. But she was texting. Rarely was she talking to anyone, at least not when I was present. Of course she was texting OM. Right in front of me and the kids. Heck, she'd be sitting on the couch with DD next to here and she's still be texting the dirtball.

But the bottom line is your wife is still doing things with you, and as such continues to provide you with the opportunity for your already excellent Plan A. My .02 worth - if my W was coming over to visit the family or give continuous contact, I'd be Plan A'ing till the cows came home. 2 years - not a problem, as long as I knew there was still some chance.

I'm going to suggest something I might contemplate if my WW was more responsive, like yours. I'm going to get 2x4'd for saying this because it's not a true Plan A or Plan B. This is only something that Iwould contemplate, not saying you should. If my wife was responding to my Plan A, coming to dinners, doing some simple things together, texting for non-kids related conversation, but yet not showing any signs (or real commitment) to coming back, then I would be inclined to give her a small taste of Plan B. Maybe not reply back so quickly, don't ask her over for dinner, wait for her to ask - and then maybe have plans otherwise. In other words, if I knew that she was still purposely contacting me, but yet cake eating or fence sitting; generally stubborn, then I wouldn't be so available to be there for her every time she chirps.

If I wasn't ready for a full blown Plan B because I felt Plan A was still effective (yet she was being stubborn), then I would be inclined to put some Plan B 'feelers' out there, just to see. It would help me to perhaps determine whether I should stay in Plan A or jump into the official Plan B.

GJM, this is me saying I might try this. By no means am I saying you should do this. I do believe in the power of the MB plans, I see many success stories here. It's just that with anything to do with life or an A, there is always a gray area. So I would think in order to respond to those gray areas, a slightly modified Plan A/B could be tested.

Oh, boy...I have a feeling I'm going to be banished for saying that. But everyone, please, this is just purely food for thought and how I might react.

Because I am still amazed at how much interaction you and your wife have. Heck, maybe it isn't amazement, but jealousy.

No need to be jealous SW. Believe me, it's draining and tiring. It's painful. Some times I just want to get down on my knees and beg her to come home. I save that for prayer time though.

Some times I want to ask her to just come home since we spend a lot of time together anyway. It's not easy to keep cool and thoughtful. There are so many things I want to say to her to convince her that life would be easier under one roof.

My fear is that she will think of us as friends. I cannot be friends with her and I've already told her this. I do my best not to talk about our marriage. The clock is ticking though. If things don't work out, I don't know what I'll do. Everyone says that you can say you did everything you could to try to save the marriage, but I don't know if that will be good enough for me. Only time will tell.

Today my W came to watch the super bowl with me. I made salsa and she made a taco salad. Her neck and back were sore from her go kart crash yesterday. I got her a heating pad and rubbed her neck. When we're at my place, we function as a family and it feels great. DS12 is staying another night. DS9 is very upset about this. He was crying because he wants to stay too and says it's not fair.

As my W was leaving, we hugged and I whispered to her to think about coming home so we don't have to go through this every week. She didn't say anything. I knew she wouldn't, but I felt I needed to say it. We've been getting along so well and spending so much time together.

I often wonder what she's looking for and why it is that she keeps running away. Maybe she likes being single. Maybe she likes not being held accountable to anyone. What she doesn't realize is what she's doing to the kids. It's sad, very sad.

I think this is it here... She is so caught up in herself that she can't see the kids. I have heard so many WS' say "I didn't want anyone telling me what to do"...

I'm sorry your kids are having a rough go of this. You aren't shielding W from their reactions are you?

CV

Nope! I tell them up front what I'm doing and what the result is. I never rescue her from anything. I just try to be there to listen and talk.

I whispered to her to think about coming home so we don't have to go through this every week. She didn't say anything. I knew she wouldn't, but I felt I needed to say it. We've been getting along so well and spending so much time together.

Awww, c'mon, dude! Are we going to go through recovery from this self-damaging exercise with you after EVERY weekend???

No expectations!
NO EXPECTATIONS!
NO EXPECTATIONS!!!
NO EXPECTATIONS!!!!
NO FRICKIN' EXPECTATIONS!!!!!
(Now I have to find my Atenolol!)

Gunny, just caught up on your thread. And here is what I see...

Your wife is cake eating...but this is GOOD. She is allowing you to meet needs.

Yes, she is half-assing her role as mother, but this is to be expected. Right now, she is counting on you to keep her family and her role as mother alive for her. That isnt her plan...but it is what is happening. You are making it easy for her.

And again, that is GOOD!!

Why do I say "good"? Because when Plan B comes...she is going to spin out of control. Her family? Gone. Her help taking care of the kids? Gone. Her counting on you to take care of her? Gone. Her emotional needs that she gets from you? Gone. Stability? Gone.

You get the point?

This is going to blow up in her face big time. And it will force her off the fence. At first, she will say "fine, if that is the way you want it!".....and then try to do it all by herself. But she is in Taker mode...so she wont be able to do it by herself.

How do I know? One example tells it all. Why is she letting your son (12) stay with you during her time? You KNOW why!!!

So, when she has to take care of them during her time after you go to Plan B...and she has no help from you with son (12)...what is she going to do??

I am telling you...your wife IS cake eating right now. She is getting all of her needs met, from various places. But unlike the other places...you are about to pull the rug out from under her.

And there is NO WAY the other(s) can meet the needs you do.

So, I think we begin getting your Plan B letter ready. You might want to go on here, get the sample one...and begin to craft yours. Then post it here so we can review and adjust.

Time to prep the battlefield for the next phase. In the meantime, keep doing what you are doing. It is having an effect!

Ah..so those ole expectations surfaced, huh?

I know how painful it is, but ya have to let the expectations go. Wife was gone for 30 minutes to the store and you didn't think it should take that long and she was up to something? Maybe, maybe not. I know the grocery near my house can take that long because sometimes they only have two checkouts open and the lines are long. Or maybe she got a phone call from a legit friend and sat in the car talking. Or maybe she saw something interesting in the frozen food aisle and was reading the nutritional contents of it.

Point is, you don't know what she was doing, and assuming she was up to no good will get you no where.

Remember the line in the "lighthouse" that talks about her being untrustable now, but you know that so it can't hurt you? Don't let it get in the way of your plan A. You becoming upset when she was gone longer than you EXPECTED and her seeing you upset took some of your LB deposits away.

She was preoccupied with her phone while she was with you and the kids this weekend? She was WITH YOU AND THE KIDS. She could have been somewhere else. But she was with YOU!

Look, I know what you're going thru. It SUCKS! But every time she's with you and the kids and it's a positive experience, she gets closer to figuring out where she wants to be. And hopefully that's with you.

You've said you filed for divorce, correct? How long until that is final? If you can take it, plan A until you get closer to that D time and then you'll have a chance to let her know that once the D is final, that's it, no more happy family. If she hasn't committed to the marriage by then, it may shock her into waking up. If not, there's your time to go to plan B.

One more story and then I'll quit the sermon. Three months after I exposed to my kids and my W claimed NC (hard to verify with her work email/IM and OM working for our company in another state), we all went to Disney World. We had a GREAT time. While we were there, there were two days where W stayed in bed ALL DAY because she claimed she didn't want to do anything because of the rain. The boys and I went and had a blast anyway. I suspect she was struggling terribly with how could she be having so much fun with us when I'm such a bas*ard? Did I let that affect my attitude? Nope. When she'd say she was staying in the room, I'd say, "Ok, your choice, me and the boys are going to where ever" and then we'd go. And when we were gone, I'd be sure to text her and send her pictures of me and the boys having a great time. And one of the times I took a picture of the food we were eating and sent it to her and she texted back that it looked good, so when we left the park that day, I bought the same food and took it back to the room for her. And she was very appreciative.

Try to take a negative and turn it into a positive. You could have said to your W when she got back from the store, "hey, you just missed it, S12 said whatever and it was hysterical"! Use every opportunity you have to show her what she's missing.

Anyway, on the last day of the trip, we were all at one of the parks, and were having a blast and at one point I looked at her and she said "what" and I said, "I'm going to kiss you" and leaned in for a kiss. She turned her head and said "no you're not" and took off around the corner. Did it hurt? HeII yes it did. Did I let it affect the rest of our time together? Nope. I learned later when I looked at the cell phone bill that she ran around the corner to call/text her enabler GF that had been her biggest A supporter. Yeah, the 26 year old twice married, twice divorced, each marriage lasted a year GF.

Wasn't too long after, that W initiated our first kiss in a long time. And it wasn't long after, that we had SF for the first time in a long time. And after that, the enabler GF, who my W had argued was her only friend, was pretty much out of the picture.

I know this is long, but ya have to let these things go. She's going to be all over the place emotionally because she's fighting with herself. Don't get in the way of that fight she's having. Don't give her ANYTHING that she can use as justification for her F'd up thinking.

Hope this helps.

Edited to add: I never had to go to plan B so listen to MM on the timing of that. I'm just trying to help you get thru your plan A with the most affect.

H4U

Good stuff from Hope4Us! All good stuff. And you need to continue.

And yes, as was said above in both posts...NO EXPECTATIONS! You are in Plan A. Do it...

I am having you begin Plan B prep, because it is better if you have it all ready in the chance that the time comes up on you quickly. You want to be able to react to the events.

And, there will be CLEAR signs that you need to go to Plan B when it is time. You dont have those signs yet. But, I want you to begin prepping.

GJM, what many people fail to realize, I believe, is that Plan A's purpose is really NOT about winning back your spouse. Its ultimate objective is to prepare for Plan B. As long as their is an active affair or any contact at all, your wife is gonna continue to be fogged out.

Right now, your goal is simply to put your best foot forward. Learning about how.you contributed to the conditions of your marriage, learning about LBs and ENs are all a part of that. Your are controlling only what you can - you.

You have been doing an outstanding job at plan a which will make it even more devestating to your ww when you go dark. Keep up your plan a but understand that winning back your ww is not the main objective.

NG, MM, H4U, Mark-

Thanks you for posting and providing your input. In my imperfect nature as a human being, I did let my emotions get to me and I let my mouth speak ahead of my brain.

Some key points I have taken away here are:

1. At least she was with me and the kids even though she was on her phone texting. She could have been anywhere.

2. Her cake eating is a good thing. I need to keep feeding her until it's time to Plan B. It's having an affect.

3. Divorce is final at the end of May.

4. Turn negatives into positives.

5. Prepare for Plan B. I have some thoughts on paper. I need to put a lot of work into it still.

6. Winning my wife back in Plan A is not the main objective. That's one I need to keep in my brain housing group.

7. No expectations. I seem to mess this one up when things go well and then back to crap again. I've always wore my emotions on my sleeve and it bites me every time.

I took a slight step backward, but I don't think it was a major set back. I spoke to my W this morning about DS 12 staying home from school. She didn't have any signs of withdrawal like she usually does.

Looks like you've got it. One thing I did want to comment on though....


Mark is correct in the statement above, but Dr H does state Plan A works in 15% of cases (I think that's the correct %) and in all other cases Plan B is required. So Plan A can work, but it's a pretty slim % of cases where it does.

Either way, your Plan A is the same. Why I've recommended you stick to Plan A as long as you can is that you guys are already separated. I would guess that your W already feels she's free to do whatever she wants with whomever she wants because of that separation. It actually may work to your benefit as she may feel that if she does come back to the marriage, it's by HER choice, not yours. And your W sounds a lot like mine (and most waywards) in that she's not going to let anyone tell her what to do.

So you need to give her the best of Plan A and get prepared for Plan B.

I was much the same as you for quite a while. I was plan A'ing like crazy, and as soon as I saw her become engaged somewhat, I'd push it. And that didn't work. The thing that sucks about these type situations is, the person that wants the marriage the least, has the most power.

Edited to add: That's good that your W didn't seem to be in pull back mode after a whole weekend of interaction with you and the kids. In my mind, if those pull backs become fewer and farther between, she could be figuring things out. Maybe your comment about moving home has her thinking?

But it doesn't change a thing for you. NO EXPECTATIONS.

Keep up the good work.

H4U

That's why preparing for Plan B is important. I've seen many marriages saved at the last minute [Mortarman and I were on the phone discussing his throwing in the towel just days before his wife repented]. Plan B AFTER a divorce would be worthless....it's got to be in place prior to "the end" such that when the second guessing occurs immediately preceding "the end" (kind of a reverse wedding day cold feet thing) she's had a fair amount of time hopefully missing you.


Then again....her last contact was Mid-January...you tricked that honesty out of her but maybe it's true and she finally is "no contact". Hope rings eternal....and maybe the fog will start lifting as she progresses through withdrawal.

As far as her texting and on the phone all the time....wayward wives, mine included are in a cool phase whereupon they revert to acting like high school girls. What do high school girls do? They text on their phones and chat on their computers all day and night. It's typical. It's all about them and the world revolves around them. If and when she comes out of this unrepentant stage...she'll be shocked at what she's been doing. My wife now texts 25 times a month...MAYBE....and that's down from 200-300/month back in 2005. I know many here have seen text counts in the 1000's. It's not a new lifestyle it's just them trying to hang on to the high of that feeling soooo hip and cool.

Actually thinking back...once the affair was absolutely over...my wife went to ZERO texts per month. She was depressed [withdrawal]. What lingered was her hiding from reality....but she was alone (no OM) and so I was able to support her and hide with her and TOGETHER we climbed out of the hole.

Mr. Wondering

Mr W (and MM too)states it a whole lot more clearly that I did/can re: when to go to plan B.

I was trying to convey that when I said "when the D date gets closer", but I think that got lost in translation.

I'll stick to the plan A stuff since I have no experience with plan B. I'll leave that to the more experienced!

H4U