Thank you reposting you cleared up my first understanding.

However you should not be giving WW OM updates. This has nothing to do with being POJA. This comes under NC. Makes me think you need to gloat and point out how your replacement is up manure creek without a paddle i front of WW.

Another none POJA item is that you should not be contacting OMW. Especially one that wanted to get you on the slippery slope. Don't tell me you have no intentions. I don't care what excuse you need to take extra risks or any way you want to justify taking any extra risks.

The only time a BS needs and should contact the OPS post dday is to exchange the truth so neither BS is left in the dark.

Once that is done, then contact to monitor AP's where abouts to kill the affair. Once the affair is over and NC in place the only need for contact between the BS's is if either one suspects the affair restarting and need to confirm one AP is no where near the other AP.

You know where your WW is. You are not suspecting the affair is restarting so there needs to be NC for you with the OM's family as well.

Even if the BS and OPS were friends before the affair there is no need to continue that friendship post affair.

If you follow MB then you place safe boundaries for you and your WW.

So were at a big party yesterday with people from town none of whom no of the A. In fact, this party was for the daughter of my wife's friend who my wife would beg to come with her to OMs house when she was watching the baby so the a-hole wouldnt be able to make his moves. But, she doesnt know about their relationship.

Anyway, we were with lots of friends and drinking and I really was having a great time actually. My friend made a harmless and funny and really innappropriate comment (as is his way) about getting our wives liquored up and seeing where things would take us. He did it front of our wives, but again Ive know him 6 years and he is known to be very innappropriate and offensive particulary with booze and the women are around. BUT NOT A THREAT. Big difference.

A-hole did his work on the sly. My friend is overt about it and funny.

Well, my mood went from happy to freaking mad because as my buddy's comments were tongue in cheek and ha ha, my wife actually went through what he was suggesting with another guy. She couldnt detect the wrongness in her actions.

Im different from everyone else. I dont like being different. I want to be able to enjoy life sort of like I did before when an amusing innocuous comment didnt send me into a nose dive emotionally.

She has stolen so much from me.

I tried to hide my anger but wasnt so successful. Life really stinks.

in my experience, guys don't comment like that unless they desire something. It's not innocuous, it's dangerous. These types of things are threats to your M Mike.

I'm sorry it happened. I'm sorry you triggered so hard (maybe the alcohol?). It's for this reason that I rarely drink in public and if i do, it is only just a drink, never 2.

There are two types of guys that seduce women... The ones that do it on the sly and the ones that do it openly. Sounds like he's testing the waters to me.

It's not something I would want to stay willfully ignorant of.

It also seems you are fighting implementing POJA the way it is supposed to be done. She POJA's everything, but you only POJA what you want. This is going to have long term negative effects on your recovery. Specially when it concerns OMW.

I really want you guys to succeed.

CV

CV-

Prior to learning my wife was cheating on me, I was a very liberal guy. Obviously too liberal.

I certainly am not one to judge a guy's intentions. Lord knows. But, there is a big difference between overt, sexually tinged banter between ALL parties (all wives and husbands were there) and hiring a woman and keeping her close while paying her money to keep her close and then engaging in a LTA in complete silence.

If my buddy wanted to have my wife, he would ask. Instead, its harmless adult fun. I truly believe that.

I used to join in on it, CV. Guy talk. Harmless. We'd compare notes and puff our chests about things. We'd laugh.

When OM was at my house all the dozens of times, we NEVER talked liked that. In fact, our guy talk was relagated to football, gambling, and I cant think of anything else. THAT should have been a clue. The biggest clue I never saw that my wife and he were doing each other was long before they had their baby a-hole and his wife were weekly sunday dinner guests. Why would they want to spend so much time here with my then 2 babies? He couldnt get enough of my wife.

You are right though. I am not all-in on MB principles. I get so angered at it all that the thought of UA is tough to get into at times. And you are right about the POJA in how she's on-board with it and Im half-a$$ing it.

She has taken so much from me and I want it all back. Thats where my head is today.

Hey Mike, the MB site has a piece about the BS's seeking "compensation" for the hurt that they've endured at the hands of the WS's A. The ideas offered by MB are noble (to have a spouse that seeks to meet all your ENs), but for some, it's not very satisfactory, as it doesn't address hurt pride. I'm not sure there is anything that will- it may be that you'll have to learn to accept it as the unchangeable past, and figure out a way to forgive, and move on.
This may be a "time heals all wounds" thing.

Sometimes I dont want to play poker with someone who cheats.

Dude-

What you are seeing in my latest posts is the extreme lows our women's actions can put us in.

I was 'blessed' in that I experienced no fog or withdrawal in my wife after dday.

Read enough of these horror stories and you'll see just how good that is.

Yes, Im looking a gift horse in the mouth in that my wife is standing on her head to make me happy and remove what she did from our memory and I kind cant see the forest for the trees, if you will.

Time is the answer. Let it happen faster.

Lol.. yeah. I understand that. Been there. Thing with cheaters is you never know who they are until they are caught.

I feel this way at times too, Mike: that I am now different. I can't watch certain movies I used to love or listen to some old, favorite music that sends me over the edge. The topic or the lyrics just are too painful now.

I hate sitting in church and someone bringing up infidelity and having it hit me square in the chest. At least that's usually in my favor as the faithful spouse (unlike Hollywood where it is glorified in ways) but still: I don't WANT to have to sit there and be reminded - in church of all places - of what happened.

I can't watch certain tv shows anymore because of the association with the name of OW. And with her name being so popular, that's a tough one!

I hate that I have a bad attitude towards my daughter's new boyfriend because he happens to be from the same city/state as OW...

SO..yes...I understand feeling you've had things taken from you. You hate feeling like you can't laugh and "be normal" anymore over things that SHOULD be innocuous.

BUT...you know what? It got me to thinking. Maybe some of this "should be innocuous" stuff really shouldn't be to begin with! Maybe if less people viewed it as innocuous, cheating wouldn't be so dang rampant. I don't know.

It helps me to consider myself more highly evolved because of this. You know: you become a "marriage snob" after all this. It's like when you learn how to cook really well: boxed dinners and "fake food" are for lesser palates. You now have a higher marital palate and are working on now just having a boxed one, but a gourmet one that is of exceptional quality!

Sucks we had to go through hell to propel us towards gourmet though.

Sunny:

I get your premise.

I dont want to be this uber marriage know-it-all.

I want my life back where I was able to enjoy most situations, watch most tv shows, and have friendships that go back 25 years.

But, I all too easy slip into bad moods, I watch the Discovery channel exclusively, and I havent spoken to a few of my oldest friends in almost a year for fear that they heard the rumor of my wife.

To have to shift to this new paradigm of marriage and life because of my wife's failures is not working out well lately.

Well, you don't have to be a know-it-all; you just have to learn that you CAN come out with a better marriage than most people ever thought they could have. It's not the knowing - it's the doing.

BUT...I empathize with you: some days I have the right attitude about it - some days I just have to make it through and let H help me.

Usually (but not always) the bad moods come when the work isn't being done - ya know?

I had to face down the "do people know" question right away in my sitch. Unbeknown to me, our oldest son got up in front of the entire youth group at church and spoke about what was going on! Well...OF COURSE kids are going to tell their parents. Other than several REALLY good friends, I had not talked about it at the time. I had to come to terms with the fact that for my son, this was his life too - and if he found support and comfort going through this by sharing - well, it just was what it was. We don't really live in a small town but it's a planned community type deal - and trust me, word gets around. I never know anymore when I talk with someone if they know what my husband did or not.

I just figure everyone has skeletons. I didn't do anything wrong - so my head is high. My husband knows our son did this. He understands that it is part of the consequences of his actions to have people know. I can't imagine what it's like for him - but it's his own doing.

Most people would never have the gall to bring it up even if they've heard. A lot of times, they figure it's just rumor and not really true. Once in awhile, you are able to help someone because they come to you, knowing you've been where they're at. (That happened recently to me.) You feel better knowing you've helped them know they aren't alone.

It does suck to not be able to just go back to your old life as it was - in terms of the paradigm shift. But, you have a choice to make: are you going to let your feelings guide your actions?

We are all entitled to bad days if you ask me! Heck - we are all entitled to decide if we are capable of recovering after we've been cheated on. But, there does come a time when you've made the decision to follow it through - and true.

Just a quick PS:

I know when you're feeling rotten really isn't the time you want to hear "it's going to be great...just wait!"

It's probably also not the time when you want to receive advice.

Sometimes we just need to vent - and that's OK. I AM sorry, Mike, that you are having a rough time of it right now. I understand. Some days are just that way. Hang in there!

This is why moving after an affair is good.

However a good friend should not act any different to their friend once they find out about their friends spouse had an affair.

However I have seen where a social group has dropped this troubled couple because they take a natural defensive action and dump the whole couple to keep the predatory WS away from their marriages.

Circlinng the wagons. You don't wait till the indians attack to cirle the wagons. You cirlce the wagons as soon as you see the indians are spotted on the crest of the far off hill.

Mike,

Previously I only cared about hanging with friends because our marriage was "good" at best.

When my wife and I dated in high school, I regularly avoided my friends so I could have time with her (it annoyed her then, but only because my friends would hunt me down).

Now? Now it's back to the same. I avoid my friends, because I would rather spend time with her, because she is my favorite companion.

That is part of the foundations of a great marriage.

That is the way it should always be a husband spending all his time with his best friend. I hope you know which one I am talking about. The one he married.

Mike,

This is a paradigm that you both should have been living before. This is the crux of it. Us failing to live in this "new" paradigm is what led to unhappy circumstances for us pre-A... not meeting En's, DJ's, AO's... All of it.

We can't (and should not have) live in willful ignorance. If we (and the WS) were all marriage experts to begin with, we wouldn't be here.

CV, my good friend, I failed at nothing.

When I was unhappy about my EN, I told this woman on dozens of occasions. I TOLD HER I WAS NOT HAPPY. Ive threatened to leave my supposedly chaste, frigid wife for someone with a normal libido who want to have sex with me without the begging. To realize she in fact has a pretty normal sex life just not with me was just one of dozens and dozens eye openers.

She, on the other hand, chose the path of least resistance. One where she escaped the cruel world of real employment that could have helped the family bottom line for the la la world of making a few hundred dollars cash at first being his 'assistant' and later as his nanny. Both were fronts for their sexual relationship.

Maybe a hint from her about six years ago she was not happy as well would have been good. That she resented our lack of time together and needed more affection. That she was having feelings for other people. I know the financial EN she was lacking was a big thing but i did earn a living and in modern times a spouse earning $12K/yr giving bjs to another man wasnt helping out paying our bills very well. This whole thing is not on me, its on her.

I took the stress and agony of coming up short in our finances myself. She has the same level college degree I have, she has no excuses but laziness. She wanted those dinners and clothes and jewelry and being selfish, she care little about anyone but herself. So, sticking around and insisting that she continue to work for her man year after year became a fighting point I never won.

What I am doing is protecting my kids from saddness because to make them sad and part of a broken home for the reasons this woman accumlated is not happening on my watch. Therefore I eat the turd sandwich that is my marriage, I sleep with my wife, i try to make a Picasso out of poop and maybe it will be easier to do someday.


Now, Im supposed to have 15+ hrs a week canoodling and forgiving and watching those missing sparks fly with this person? Who, frankly, I dont like very much lately.

Well Wednesday is 9th month mark of my world ending. What do I get the person whose destroyed my persona for such a day?

HEY, ANGRY GUY!

Has UA time been failing? Cause you, sir, are a flaming rageoholic.

Mike,

I understand your anger. I had days... No weeks, where I couldn't stand the sight or smell of my W after the A. Yeah, we hysterically bonded, yeah we talked and spent every waking moment together (and the sleeping ones too).

But guess what? There comes a point when we have to look at ourselves and say "I could've done better". What I am talking about is not being to blame for the affair, but for the pre-A state of the marriage.

I understand you have a lot of resentment... I really do. Let me ask a question.

Do you really want your marriage with your wife, or are you just riding this out til the kids are old enough?

You seem mostly on board with MB, but not with your wife. Is that about right?

CV