And right on indiegirl, always love your advice, it does look like an attempt to get me to call him, to engage bc I almost did. I wanted to scream at him to leave me alone. In fact I was setting up my email filters yesterday when that email came through HE SENT IT TO ME EVEN THOUGH I SAID NOT TO, though I deleted it before reading it and my IM had to give me the info.

He's probably a typical wayward and too LAZY to get a court order.
He'd rather bluff and bluster.
Waywards are LAZY quite often.
They seek the path of least resistance.
The path which requires little effort on their part.

It's FINE if he complies a list of his requested/desired "personal crap" so you can (or not) place them out for a LIMITED pre-arranged time period (or not) where he can pick them up (or not).

IT IS ENTIRELY UP TO YOU HOW GENEROUS YOU WANT TO BE.
If WH's requesting crap like grooming items and clothing ... let him have it all.
Most likely, WH wants to get ahold of electronics and toys.
So sad.
Too bad.

Most likely, WH's threat is a tactic to be let into your house to look around.
Fail.

Amazing isnt it. I remember how surprised I was at this too.

He broke the most important most sacred vow we had between us, by giving himself to someone else. Yet I thought he would repect my wishes that I not be hurt any more! I dont know where I got that idea!

My WH called the cops on me when I wouldn't let him in the house. He had already had all of his stuff. But see, that saturday, I knew that he and the skank were planning a romantic evening at his loveshack so my mother approached them in the parking lot of said loveshack and said a few choice words to them. He wound up taking her back home but then showed at my house deminding to see the kids (for spite, I'm sure). Long story short, the police told me that I had to let him take the kids for a little while (they just went out to dinner)until we have court orders and that I have to provide him with a house key in a "reasonable amount of time"...he still doesn't have a key

Brilliant. That was my plan should I get told to give out a key, but WH seemed to have a moment of clarity in that he gave up.

Rocketqueen, indiegirl, Pepperband, you guys, thank you for being online today. Just THANK YOU. I do not know where I'd be without you guys through this, SERIOUSLY.

The sacred vow, violating our marriage� he doesn't even believe he's done that people. For awhile he was wondering if it was the girl or the marriage, but now he's far far away and I'm sure he has friends and family supporting his every move. In fact when we were still in Plan A I was asking about something he'd said that I now believed to be a lie and HE WAS ACTUALLY INSULTED THAT I DIDN'T TRUST HIM. Just incredible. I look back on that and it just blows my mind. This is a guy who was complaining of being so repressed with me and he's just going further under with his guilt. He always said he liked couch surfing with his friends, said it felt like "his life." Well I was always there a comforting phone call, Skype or text away, never far away, so let's see how he likes that life 24/7. I make a pretty f****** awesome home.

It is most likely that he wants to take valuables, that's one reason I don't want him in here, I want NO CONTACT, no arguments. I also just can't be around him at all for the feelings are too much; the murderous rage, the love, the trauma all mixed up.

Interesting about the police Rocketqueen forcing you to give him a key. Hmm. See where I live, if the landlord has changed the locks which she has, it's up to her. I guess if there's a court order bc he's paying rent/our accounts are joint he can get somewhere that way maybe, but it's still the landlord's property. My landlord is so great, she called me today to tell me that he will try to make it seem that I did something wrong in his guilt, and to be strong, "don't get carried away with those thoughts." She said she'd be my backup. How awesome.

Well, right now the kids and I are living in the house my WH and I bought together. But in 3 days I am moving to a rental house and HE will not be on the lease and will not be able to use those tactics. But he will get a key to an empty house...with no cable...and no electric...and best of all, no family....hahahaha

I also wanted to let you know that I totally get what you are feeling. My WH didn't see that he did anything wrong for the longest time and still blames me for what has happened and that it has nothing to do with skank! Theie wayward way of thinking is just so badly skewed, it's unbelievable. But I have to think that it can't last forever. They have to come to their senses at some point, right?
The good thing about Plan B is that I feel that if he "wakes up", I will recovered enough to have moved on.

Days, I am so glad that you didn't break down and contact him. This is most likely going to happen a few more times. Stay strong and STAY DARK.

Yep. ITA with Pep.

I think he doesn't get out of THE BED. He doesn't even have a lawyer.

One MORE thing has happened today. At 4pm I got an email that he wanted to take our CSA box (what is a CSA? http://www.localharvest.org/csa/). When I got out of my 4pm meeting with a lawyer, at 5:15 I emailed the IM that he could have the box with some stipulations. At 7pm!! after I'd packed stuff for him to pick up after he got the veg box he said he couldn't get to the 9pm pickup in time, by which time I was already off to my 7-10pm engagement, and we lost the box we paid for. Yes he has always been profoundly unreliable but I AM STILL PISSED that he asked for something he was NOT PREPARED TO DO. Then he asked for a bunch of other things I couldn't find.

This is not freaking dark enough for me. I WASTED my day on this. I need to get back to me, to reducing stress, to my real work. Today I felt totally taken advantage of, again. How do MBers with arrangements like kids deal?

Don't let him upset you, 3. He's behaving in typical wayward fashion. Stay steady and calm. He is probably missing you and the needs you've been meeting and is creating issues that he hopes will involve you. Waywards are very self-centered and want to be the center of attention. He probably knew that his failure to pick up that box would bother you.

Let your IM deal with this and don't allow yourself to become upset over these things.

Hey everyone, I've been missing the forum. The past 3 or 4 days have been great, with a good deal of fun and support from friends, moving forward, restful, alternating between contentment, even excitement at possibilities, and then still missing him at night, wondering if I will ever really be happy, confident and safe again. Today I'm pretty depressed and teary. There's my emotional needs that he was meeting, a happiness and love that I'd never known in my life.

I've decided on a lawyer and I've learned that he doesn't have one; he thinks they're too expensive. He was never good at this kind of research. My question to you guys is should I pass on to him the information? This seems like a pretty potent move, that I'm taking him seriously, or it could look provocative, provoke him to get his own lawyer and move forward with the divorce. My feeling is to lay low with the information until it's totally necessary.

I wouldn't pass on anything to him other than a Plan B letter. If he is still in his affair, you should be in a very dark Plan B.

Wait, I thought you WERE in Plan B?

Don't worry. After you file for divorce, he will get paperwork from the Court and will get his own lawyer. We live in a society where Divorce is more common than marriage so I'm sure he knows divorced people taht will give him advice.
I dont understand why you WOULD EVEN WANT TO TELL HIM THIS. HE WILL BEAT YOU TO THE COURTHOUSE IF YOU DO. WHY TELL HIM?

In plan B you let the wayWard figure out how to be a big boy and look after himself.

If he doesn't get one, not your problem.

But waywards tend not to believe reality is coming and that they will need a lawyer.

How did you hear about his not having a lawyer while in Plan B?

You do understand you cannot communicate with him in Plan B?

The withdrawal pain is sharpest in the early weeks of NC. If you break plan B you restart the withdrawal clock and you have to do withdrawal all over again.

Hi guys,

Yes I am in Plan B officially since 2/13 when I sent the letter, though it doesn't feel very dark. We are communicating only about logistics and finances through the MB IM. I have not had any contact with him except through the IM. There are a lot of logistics like health insurance, jobs, property, that we have had to communicate about through the IM.

I heard about the lawyer through a friend who accidentally gave me info about him that I really did not want to hear. I'm perfectly fine not getting any information about H and that has made my life totally easier emotionally.

HDW, I am not filing for divorce and I appreciate your passion. I'm getting a lawyer to protect myself. As for him beating me to the courthouse, I came here to ask about the information and I'm just clarifying that basically I should not give him anything.

Pain for me or for him? We have only been communicating through the IM, are you saying I should be saying less? It certainly has seemed like too much contact to me, but I actually think the IM has been a relief for the both of us. I don't think he's in pain, he's angry and certain that he is on the right path bc of my exposure, and that I am in the wrong, overreacting, not letting him move on and--wait for it--controlling him. But I feel better, calmer, freer most of the time when it's not late at night and I'm feeling like I'll never feel happy and safe again and will become a lazy destitute.

3, the next time someone starts to say anything about your WH, immediately stop them. Explain to them that it is unhealthy for you to have any information about him. Listening to anyone talk about him other than your IM is an indirect NC break.

Sadly it's Tuesday and I'm still depressed. I don't know how to fulfill on my own the needs he was fulfilling.

For the first time I wanted to contact him. Our cat that he raised from a kitten got into a bad scrape yesterday and I was scared, worried about him in the middle of the night. I couldn't decide what to do, to give the cat something or to take him to the vet, I had no one to reassure me, to make me feel calm and confident, to help me with the problem like he was so good at. I felt so alone and afraid. I almost contacted him. I had to really be strong and talk myself out of it, tell me that I could wait to morning, to trust myself. But this ball of stress in my chest feels horrible. I had to tell myself that he would not give me what I was looking for even if I did call, that it would just be painful rather than the love I was seeking.

Come here if you need to. I am usually online if no one else is, and have gone through something similar with a pet's health.

I'm always willing to talk.