Is it as simple as you don't agree on what constitutes "name calling?"

The example that comes to mind is the "N" word. My step-grandfather used it, and the context he used it in wasn't derogatory. It's what folks of his generation learned to call folks of a certain color. It didn't mean anything good or bad to him.

To others, it was calling names.

Attempts to educate him on how some may take that as offensive didn't go far. Why? Because he was not "calling names." He was using the term used by millions of his generation to refer to a group of people.

Sometimes I wonder who was more gracious, those who may not have used the right words, but treated everyone with respect, or those who always used the right words, but didn't always show respect.

I never heard him speak ill of any one, any group, or any social or political group.

His language certainly was not polished, and the PC Police would frown at his speech. But there were few who were more gracious and respectful than him.

The question is, what are his intentions first, and can you guide him to choose other words? Can you offer grace if he's unwilling or unable to choose the words you think he should use?

Are you willing to hold yourself to the standard you expect him to follow? Do you tell him that he is right, that you find yourself doing the same things you don't like him doing.

Do you thank him for keeping you honest in this?

Maybe start there. When he catches you in a double standard, thank him for pointing it out. Not a sarcastic thanks, but a real, thanks I didn't see that until you showed me, I appreciate it thanks. With an apology too. Something like, "I'm sorry for doing that. I know I've called you on it, so it must be hard for you to experience me doing the very same things I complain about in you. Please accept my apology as it is hurtful and wrong for me to behave in that fashion.

Thanks Enlightened_Ex. He loves people but is very very blunt. Yes, I can offer him grace.

What about our children? What if I'm concerned about what he is teaching them?

I tell him he is right but not as humbly as you put it. I will put more effort in giving him more of what I expect...giving him EVERYTHING I expect from him.

Playing by two sets of rules is not fair.

Thanks for stopping by.

I would put an end to racial slurs, no matter how anyone was raised. Any intelligent person can speak of their disdain with others without ever attacking something that the other person can do nothing about, like race.

I would have treated EE's step-grandpa the same way I treat my FIL: with much distance, and a sharp crack for ignorance in the presence of my children.

My husband has made some racist remarks in my presence, and I told him it made him appear ignorant to me. That has been enough. Learning stupid stuff is no reason to keep believing it.

I feel very strongly about it, too. He is not racist, but he does not guard his speech in that area. If it didn't involve my children it would be a different story.

So things are still bad.

I talked with DH again about the name calling, and he finally agreed that he would commit to not calling his family names. But he did say that if someone cuts him off in traffic, he is free to say whatever he wants to the "idiot" who put his family in danger.

He feels I am demanding that he not call names. This is true. I cannot control what he says about other peope, although it is a LB for me when he has AO about others, but it has been imperative that I feel the children and I are safe from being called names.

I was really hurt that it took him 3 days to agree to this. He asked if I felt like he didn't protect the family. I said not with his words. I told him I was really hurt it took so long for him to agree to protect us, and I started to cry.

I told him his words have done some of the worst damage in our relationship, and he said that he felt the same way about me but I don't see him crying about it.

I said, well excuse me for crying! And he walked out.

We are just going round and round. My heart hurts.

Can you try brainstorming ways to meet his SF without you being alone?
How can you be face to face and still meet (perhaps manually) his needs?
Approach it not as "I don't like this and that" but "I want to meet your need for SF and how can we both be happy?"

Maybe don't approach it as a demand "Don't call people names!" but as a thoughtful request using "I statements"...such as
"I felt so disrespected when you said 'Let me tell you simple-minded people...' "
How can you tell us your thoughts on something without making us feel so bad? Remember, we may not have as much background as you in an area, we may not care as much as you about an area, and we might have different opinions about something. And all of that is okay. We want to hear your opinion, not have it forced upon us.

That being said when my DH says something in a disrespectful way I just walk away. He apologizes fairly quickly, but hopefully he will just learn not to do it in the first place!

Thanks wannabophim. I really appreciate your input.

Yes, I will try to use POJA on meeting his need for SF in a mutually satisfying way. We have gone round and round about this for so many years, and I get discouraged that we have made little improvement. I will keep trying.

I understand what you mean about the thoughtful request. I did make a demand in my response to him, which is not what I would want if it were me.

Over the weekend I did discuss my willingness to separate from DH if he would not stop calling his family names in his anger.

It was a tough time. I wasn't feeling angry at all. Just hurt and desperately trying to do the right thing for myself and the children.

You see, I have spent so many years not taking care of myself or having good boundaries, and now I am getting healthy. Now I have relied on healthy resources (i.e. MB, my therapist, and church pastors) to decide what cannot be tolerated in a marriage. The last thing I want is to be separated from my husband. There have been so many confusing messages coming my way, but I have decided I will do what is right now matter what. I will not fall apart. I can stand and say "no" when it is destructive to myself or my children.

My DH and I did decide to work on the marriage, and I agreed to this after he stated that he is committed to elimating destructive behaviors. And I also am extremely committed to doing so. I have much to work on myself.

So our plan now is to continue with the marriage class at our church each week and read books every night after we work out together. I read to him, and I take notes for myself to keep the bottom-lines in mind.

Last night we read through Ch. 3 in Lovebusters about Selfish Demands. Tonight I believe the plan is to read about Disrepectful Judgements.

I will be a stronger person, and I will be a better wife and mother, no matter the circumstances.

You cannot demand that your spouse do anything if you want a recovered marriage. As you've seen, demands do not work. He will feel the need to defend himself, and will be closed to listening to your complaint.

You must be respectful and non-demanding in how you approach him with your complaint. Instead of "You must stop calling people in traffic names or I'm leaving you for good" try "It hurts me when you yell at the guy who cut you off." Just leave it at that. You haven't DJ'd him, or demanded he stop. You've just let him know that what he has done hurts you. If he pushes for more, or tries to argue, don't engage. Simply repeat "It hurts me," or "I felt disrespected."

The reason it took so long to agree to do it is because you have been demanding and disrespectful yourself. The natural thing to do when you are being lovebusted with DJs and demands is to protect yourself first. Congratulations -- he's human after all Give him a little grace.

Now you've hit a nerve with me
I don't cry much either -- markos is the one who typically shows more emotion about such things. But I tell you, when he DJs me, or worse yet, has an AO, it cuts me to the core. Even though I don't cry.

He doesn't have to cry to feel like he's dying inside.

Your demands, DJs and AOs hurt him just as bad as his hurt you.

That was very disrespectful. And probably cut him very deeply.


So does his.

This is also very disrespectful. Is he no more mature than a 5 year old child? Ouch.

You will not get what you need (protection and care) by browbeating him to do it.

This is very good.
Are you going to create plans together to eliminate these lovebusters?
What are your plans concerning UA time?

Recently, Markos and I were listening to one of Dr. Harley's old radio shows. In it, he made the statement: "don't become angry or disrespectful if your spouse breaks the rules."

We both agreed that we wished someone had told us that early on
Your husband must follow the rule to not DJ you.
He will probably slip up. It's not an easy habit to break.
Just because he slips up doesn't give you a go to become angry or disrespectful yourself.

Never respond to a lovebuster with a lovebuster. Two wrongs never make a right.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8110_cod.html

How is this a red flag for codependency?

I see this as a renter mindset, she sacrificed herself. The solution here is to POJA with her husband on options for her to regain herself. They shouldn't be sacrificing.

Also, if her husband is still engaging in lovebusters, then restating her boundaries over and over again will help her demonstrate to her husband what it will take to protect her. It can be very exhausting for a woman to battle lovebusters from her husband.

Anointed I suggest continuing to state your boundaries to your husband. His changes to respect your boundaries should change immediately if he is serious about working on your marriage.

Thanks Prisca. As you can see, we both slipped back into old habits.

The reason I was demanding about calling his family names was because I thought I was supposed to demand it. I actually wasn't referring to calling other people names in the demand...just our family because I was told this is verbal abuse...not to be tolerated right???

Everything else we could use POJA for, right?

I thought it was the same as if my husband had hit me or the kids. I would have to leave if he didn't have a plan and commitment to protect us, right??

Remember, I am in counseling for sexual abuse, and everything is very fresh...on the surface. I am desperately trying to do what is healthy.

That is why I was confused and trying to put my foot down without regard for MB. I was hearing I needed to draw this boundary in a firm way thru several trusted resources.

You don't tolerate sexual, physical, or verbal abuse, right??


And yes I was disrespectful and demanding, and it did not get the outcome I wanted or needed.

Thanks Prisca,

Yes we are reading 1 chapter of Lovebusters each night, and we agree to work on them.

We are spending about 2 hrs or more a night together by working out and then reading Lovebusters and chatting. The weekends are sporadic but we do get time together...I'm guessing we are close to the 14-15 hr range. I'd feel better if we scheduled the time specifically on our calendar, but I'm ok with status quo for now.

We are going to write down when our spouse commits a LB and discuss it later.

This is funny HHH because I posted the same thing.


I cannot get a straight answer. Name calling on a regular basis is not to be tolerated, though, right?

My husband does not call names often, but I was scared since he would not commit to stop doing it. He was hesitant to agree because I was demanding. I was demanding because I thought that made me healthy.

Thanks HHH.

Thanks PrayIncessantly.

I have been absolutely exhausted from battling LB from DH, and I know he is tired too.

We both want the same thing.

Here is part of what he wrote on the valentines card he gave me:
I believe that you and I together can not only change [lack of money] but change the habits and attitudes of our family for generations. I believe in us!

I cannot express how much that encourages me.

Thank you so much for seeing things from my DH's perspective. I really appreciate it.