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Remember, I am in counseling for sexual abuse, and everything is very fresh...on the surface. I am desperately trying to do what is healthy. Remember Anointed your sexual abuse issue will shape your emotional needs only ... it has no bearing on your current actions. What are you needing from your husband to feel loved, cared for and protected? Once he can nail those specific EN's then your abuse as a child will have no room in your life. It probably feels like it is affecting you today because you husband isn't meeting your EN's the way you need them met, and his lovebusters are also causing some resentment. That is why Dr. Harley doesn't want you to go back and live that nightmare over again. He knows the only way to move past the trauma is to live a great life today. Hone on your EN's and really try to determine how he can meet them for you. Tough~
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That is soooo good! Thank you.
I will do that.
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No, verbal abuse should not be tolerated. But that doesn't give you a right to be abusive in return. The answer is NOT to become abusive yourself. You can draw the line without being demanding or disrespectful, or having your own AOs. The forms are very helpful in doing this.
When you start demanding that he protect you, he will naturally want to defend himself.
The forms take away the demand aspect of your complaint. When you fill out the form, with just the facts, it is easier to avoid making your own DJs and Demands: "Date: 02/14/2012 Lovebuster: DJ - called me "____"
You are simply informing him what he did, and respectfully letting him know that it causes pain and is unacceptable to you. There is no need to beat him over the head with it, or cause him pain in return. There is no need to demand that he change -- he now knows that when he calls you "_____" it is hurtful. And if he wants to protect you, he will take steps to not do it again.
Demanding that he change will get you nowhere. Telling him that what he does causes pain, and working together to create a plan to change WILL get you where you want to go.
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I thought it was the same as if my husband had hit me or the kids. I would have to leave if he didn't have a plan and commitment to protect us, right?? Dr. Harley does advise women to leave when their husband is physically abusive. He also doesn't expect a woman to stay if her husband flat out refuses to protect her from the other lovebusters. Your husband is not physically abusive, is he? Dr. Harley also says to never threaten to leave. If it comes to the point that you need to get out, then leave. But don't threaten to do it. You are right that he shouldn't be verbally abusive. You are not going to convince him that you are right by being demanding and disrespectful in return. You are being just as verbally abusive as he is when you do it. He needs protection from you, too. But he has agreed to do the program now, right? Give him some grace for being reluctant (there's almost always a reluctant spouse when it comes to marital recovery) and move forward with the program. What is your plan for overcoming demands, DJs and AOs? What is his? These plans should be very specific.
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Remember, I am in counseling for sexual abuse, and everything is very fresh...on the surface. I am desperately trying to do what is healthy. An article for you to read and consider: What to do when you are not meeting your spouses need for sex
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An article that you may find helpful when dealing with the talking about politics issue: When should you tell your spouse "We have a problem."How should you tell your spouse, "We have a problem."
One of the reasons that spouses postpone their complaints is that the way they complain often starts a fight. While the complaint does get the problem out on the table, it often wrecks what could have been a peaceful evening at home. And after the fight is over, the problem usually remains unsolved. So, how should you introduce a problem to your spouse in a way that doesn't lead to a fight, and makes it easy to solve?
First, this is what you should NOT do when presenting a problem to your spouse:
DO NOT make a demand. A demand is an effort to force your spouse to do what you want without consideration for how your spouse will feel doing it. "Do it, or else," is the clear message given in a demand, and it coveys an insensitivity to your spouse's feelings or interests. It's a Love Buster because demands withdraw love units. Instead of helping to solve a problem, it creates a new problem. A thoughtful request, on the other hand, is a good way to ask your spouse for help, because it takes his or her feelings into account. "How would you feel if you were to do this for me," introduces the problem with a willingness to negotiate a win-win solution.
DO NOT make a disrespectful judgment. When you present the problem, avoid expressing it as being the fault of your spouse. "If you were less selfish, we wouldn't have this problem," is an example of a disrespectful judgment that will get you nowhere. Instead of blaming your spouse for the problem, view it as a problem for you that is, apparently, not a problem for your spouse. Respectful persuasion is an effort to try to change your spouse's behavior that, in the end, will not only help you, but will help your spouse as well.
DO NOT have an angry outburst. Anger is your Taker's way of punishing your spouse when he or she does not give you what you want. It's not only an ineffective way to produce long-lasting change in your spouse's behavior, but it also destroys your spouse's love for you.
Granted, if you present your complaint in a thoughtful way, and your spouse responds with thoughtlessness, you will be very tempted to revert to your Taker's instincts by being demanding, disrespectful and angry. But it takes two to fight, and if your spouse does not respond positively to your presentation, simply end the discussion, and re-introduce your problem again later.
It's very important for both you and your spouse to do a good job meeting each other's emotional needs, and avoiding behavior that causes each other's unhappiness. But when either of you have a complaint, I suggest that you use this procedure:
First, state your complaint as clearly as possible, guaranteeing your spouse's safety by avoiding demands, disrespect or anger. Be cheerful as you discuss the problem, and try to make it brief.
Second, ask for your spouse's perspective on your problem. How does your spouse view this same situation and what might make it difficult for him or her to accommodate you?
Third, brainstorm possible solutions to the problems, looking for a plan that would solve your problem, and at the same time take your spouse's feelings into account. Avoid any solution where one of you gains at the other's expense. Don't give or expect sacrifice because that means that one of you will be losing love units so that the other can gain them. If you sacrifice for each other, in the end, you won't have the mutual love for each other that you want. But also recognize the importance of eventually finding a solution that solves the problem.
Finally, from your list of possible solutions, choose the one that has the enthusiastic agreement of both you and your spouse. That way, the solution will deposit love units into both of your Love Banks simultaneously. If you can't find one that meets that standard, keep brainstorming.
To guarantee your love for each other, you and your spouse must address each other's complaints as soon as they arise. Don't let your problems build up before you find solutions, because the longer you wait, the more love units you lose. But, if you're not careful, the way you go about presenting your problem and trying to find solutions can also cause you to lose love units.
You will not only deposit love units by solving the problems themselves, but you will also deposit love units in the very way you go about solving the problem, if you do it the right way.
Most couples lose love units whenever they have a conflict because they present their complaints with demands, disrespect and anger. And then they look for solutions that help one spouse but hurt the other. That's no way to resolve conflicts, and it's certainly no way to stay in love.
The better you become at stating your complaints with your spouse's feelings in mind, and then finding solutions with the same thoughtfulness, the more you will feel like getting to each problem immediately. But until you get to the place where you feel like presenting your problems as soon as they occur, do it anyway. Don't try to lower your expectations, and don't try to meet your own emotional needs. Instead, learn to become experts at meeting each other's emotional needs. That way you will have what you have always wanted -- a fulfilling and passionate marriage.
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Gotta work on lunch now but I see Prisca has given much to chew on! Thank you! I'll be sure to check back in soon to answer and read the links.
Married 20 yrs Me:FBW Him: FWH 4 children
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How is this a red flag for codependency? Read the article. Look at the statements. If you can't see it, then obviously I must be crazy. Also, Anointed - how has the UA time been? Can I take a quick guess... and say - "It ain't been."
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Your husband is not physically abusive, is he? No he is not. Dr. Harley also says to never threaten to leave. If it comes to the point that you need to get out, then leave. But don't threaten to do it. Got it. I thought I was doing the right thing by letting him know I was on the edge so we could fix it. He has been saying I have threatened him about leaving several times over the last year, and I have said, "It is not a threat if I mean it." He said he is feeling very insecure in the relationship and rightly so. I will not threaten to leave again. If I need to leave, I will just do it. But he has agreed to do the program now, right? Yes. What is your plan for overcoming demands, DJs and AOs? What is his? These plans should be very specific. Right now we are reading one chapter of LoveBusters each night after we work out together. My plan is to write down any time he uses a LB on me. I'm thinking DH will, too. I would like to see all LB completely gone in 6 months. Is that too high a goal?
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That link was good, Prisca. I would like to order that book once I am finished with all the other ones I have acquired. Right now we are having SF about 2X per week. I have started talking to DH about how to help me relax and get in the mood. I learned yesterday that a woman's arousal goes very differently than a man's. Intimate Conversation-->Sexual Neutrality-->Sexual Interest-->Sexual Arousal-->Sexual Desire-->Satisfaction (which may or may not include an orgasm)
I have noticed that I am very anxious and nervous before SF, and I have mentioned rubbing my feet and shoulders, back, etc would help me relax and stop my mind from racing. I am trying to be more communicative, and I hope I am not hurting his feelings in any way.
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Yeah, Prisca...I didn't do any of those things.
When we read the chapter on DJ's last night, both DH and I failed miserably when we took the test at the end.
DJ's are probably our biggest problem.
Married 20 yrs Me:FBW Him: FWH 4 children
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Also, Anointed - how has the UA time been? Can I take a quick guess... and say - "It ain't been." It wasn't good last week. Now I think we are on the edge of 15 hrs per week of UA. I'd like more and I'd love to nail it down in our calendar. I don't want to demand it, and I'm feeling a little hesitant to bring anything up while we are learning. I can ask. It actually takes so much character and love for the other person to care so much how they feel that you put your desires on hold until you can come up with a mutually satisfying agreement. I have been very selfish. One of my biggest problems has been demanding we talk when he doesn't want to. When I do that, I am feeling a lot of pain and I just want it worked out so I can breathe again. But his desire to NOT talk about it at that time is something I need to respect. Pain or not. He deserves a thoughtful request. I hope he is willing to meet my needs and stop the pain. Either way, I know what my path is, and that feels pretty good.
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Right now we are reading one chapter of LoveBusters each night after we work out together. My plan is to write down any time he uses a LB on me. I'm thinking DH will, too. I would like to see all LB completely gone in 6 months. Is that too high a goal? I think it would be a good time-frame for each of you to recognize your own LB behaviors so that they can be actively avoided. Then, avoiding them will begin to erase them as habits. Have you read the article Rules that Guide Good Habit Formation in Marriage? Reacting with Love Busters pretty much falls under MR3. Concentrate on the other two while you work on this.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Okay so focus on enjoying my new behaviors and on enjoying what comes after my new behavior.
Avoid punishments.
I'm looking for ways to apply this stuff with the kids, too!
Thanks, HHH.
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Okay so focus on enjoying my new behaviors and on enjoying what comes after my new behavior.
Avoid punishments.
I'm looking for ways to apply this stuff with the kids, too!
Thanks, HHH. He makes good points with it. We have more luck getting the girls to do their chores when they get weekend cash than when they lose any privileges. They just kind of go without said privileges and move on.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Okay so focus on enjoying my new behaviors and on enjoying what comes after my new behavior.
Avoid punishments.
I'm looking for ways to apply this stuff with the kids, too!
Thanks, HHH. Oh, and also make sure that he enjoys his new behaviors, and what comes after his new behaviors - and vice-versa, and so on.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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"It is not a threat if I mean it." He said he is feeling very insecure in the relationship and rightly so. Ouch. I can tell you from experience that those are some of the most terrifying words you can hear your spouse say. I do not have to wonder why your husband has been reluctant to do anything -- he has no reason to hope for anything. These threats on your part has caused a lot of damage that will take time to recover from. But he has agreed to do the program now, right? Yes. Great What is your plan for overcoming demands, DJs and AOs? What is his? These plans should be very specific. Right now we are reading one chapter of LoveBusters each night after we work out together. My plan is to write down any time he uses a LB on me. I'm thinking DH will, too. I would like to see all LB completely gone in 6 months. Is that too high a goal? [/quote] Take this one step further. You have the workbook now, right? There is a form in it for creating a plan to overcome DJs. It has several questions to fill out, and then you share your answers with your spouse. Then you use those answers to create a detailed plan. 6 months is not too high a goal. That is the amount of time I heard Dr. Harley say it takes to create a complex habit.
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On how to eliminate DJs ... this was a very hard thing for me to do. I knew I needed to do it, but HOW? DJs can be such a sneaky habit -- often times, the DJs are easily justified because they're "true." I didn't say anything that wasn't true! It's very easy to overlook your own DJs and only focus on your spouse's DJs.
They told Markos in Anger Management his first rule was to "Shut up!" I found this very helpful in eliminating disrespect, too. If you are feeling any kind of irritation, shut up. If you are feeling justified, shut up. Just don't say anything until you can control what you say. You will not explode.
The second thing I did was practice being respectful of Markos when he wasn't around -- I stopped journaling about him. I made myself post respectfully about him. When you dwell on disrespectful thoughts, it will affect how you treat your husband. Force yourself to think about him respectfully. Try to see his point of view.
Those are two practical ways to help overcome DJs.
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Prisca paints it pretty well. So, how can you recognize them? Have you looked at the Disrespectful Judgments article? At the time we rationalize our disrespect by convincing ourselves that we're doing our spouses a big favor, to lift them from the darkness of their confusion into the light of our superior perspective. If they would only follow our advice, we tell ourselves, they could avoid many of life's pitfalls-and we would also get what we want.
A disrespectful judgment occurs whenever one spouse tries to impose a system of values and beliefs on the other. When a husband tries to force his point of view on his wife, he's just asking for trouble. When a wife assumes that her own views are right and her husband is woefully misguided -- and tells him so -- she enters a minefield. When we try to impose our opinions on our spouses, we imply that they have poor judgment. That's disrespectful. We may not say this in so many words, but it's the clear message that they hear. If we valued their judgment more, we might question our own opinions. What if they're right, and we're wrong?
I'm not saying that you can't disagree with your spouse. But I want you to respectfully disagree. Try to understand your spouse's reasoning. Present the information that brought you to your opinion and listen to the information your spouse brings. Entertain the possibility that you might change your own mind, instead of just pointing out how wrong your spouse is.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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On how to eliminate DJs ... this was a very hard thing for me to do. I knew I needed to do it, but HOW? DJs can be such a sneaky habit -- often times, the DJs are easily justified because they're "true." I didn't say anything that wasn't true! It's very easy to overlook your own DJs and only focus on your spouse's DJs.
They told Markos in Anger Management his first rule was to "Shut up!" I found this very helpful in eliminating disrespect, too. If you are feeling any kind of irritation, shut up. If you are feeling justified, shut up. Just don't say anything until you can control what you say. You will not explode.
The second thing I did was practice being respectful of Markos when he wasn't around -- I stopped journaling about him. I made myself post respectfully about him. When you dwell on disrespectful thoughts, it will affect how you treat your husband. Force yourself to think about him respectfully. Try to see his point of view.
Those are two practical ways to help overcome DJs. Yes, I do have the workbook, so I'll look at how to use it while we read. #1 shut up when irritated #2 practice being respectful when he is not around I've noticed that I even use DJ's when I am praying! I have stopped this and notice that I watch for it in all my relationships and even when angry at the guy driving too slowly in front of me. I think I'm right when I figured out that calling someone a name is a DJ because you are placing judgement on them for not doing things your way, right?
Married 20 yrs Me:FBW Him: FWH 4 children
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