I see, NED. How should i be thinking about this? I'm still trying to grasp what HHH said and not live or think in fear. To walk with dignity and calm in the face of aggravation, etc. Is that what you mean?

I know what you mean about reconnecting. I think I've done the face-off thing since we still have not had SF since he got back on Thursday. It was hard for me to think about it when I had felt somewhat disregarded by his actions while away. I'm still lining things up in my head so I can avoid abusing him with LBs, but neglecting him isn't right either! Ugh! I have felt like I would be sacrificing if we were intimate while I felt hurt.

I'm still trying to get MB. I really am.

It's not dropping it, it is giving them time to react without anger or whatever their go-to reaction is: defense, deflection, disregard. It is planting the seed (some, like Ned, called it drive-by-honesty) and not demanding an instant harvest. And you don't just drop it forever. You wait and see if they respond once they have mulled it over (I have rarely had a good experience in expecting an instantaneous RATIONAL response to a complaint), and if they appear to have forgotten or disregarded the complaint, you voice it again, in the same nice way providing them an excuse to not get into the depth of the discussion immediately: "I would really like it if you would commit to never going to bars without me. There's a new one that opened last month in town that has a band tonight. How about we go check it out this evening?"

If he DOES do it anyway, you can simply ask him, "Did you hear me when I said I would like if you didn't do that?"

NOT: Did I stutter? Got cotton in your ears, boy? Hate me much?

Just open the conversation with a sweet, "Did you hear me?" He can say yes and explain why he ignored it, or he can say no and you can send it to him in email and request a response. Then you KNOW he's got it. Tell him in the conversation that you will send him an email to refer to, because you don't want to make a big deal about this and know he is willing to protect you if you just make it clear how you need it.

CWMI,

I am in the process of reading your threads from the beginning. I think I'm beginning to grasp the how-to mental process regarding bringing up complaints without LBing and denying ENs. I'm not doing it yet, but I think I can. I think I can. I think I can.

Your response really means a lot. I am mulling it over. Thanks.

Anointed,
I'm pretty new here, but just wanted to say I understand and am having the same difficulties with bringing up issues that bother me.

I've found I have to take a bit of a breather break to get my emotions in check and think about exactly how I should voice my complaint before saying it. Otherwise LB's will happen or DH will not hear me. Granted he too even when stated without LB's does sometimes still get defensive. The advice you were given about just letting it drop then and waiting to see if it sunk in before revoicing it at another time is definitely helpful.

I'm like you. I hate leaving an issue unresolved, but I'm definitely learning that reacting in an emotional state was not resolving anything. It was making things worse and causing a lot of love bank withdrawals. If I find it hard to stop dwelling on it and keeping my emotions high I find something to do that requires my concentration for a bit.

I recently had to read Crucial Conversations and Crucial Confrontations for work and they really helped me with POJA at home.

Not in any way a replacement for MB, but the books gave me more tools in my toolbox and better ways to keep our conversations safe and productive.

Thanks hopestrengthens! I'm glad I'm not the only one who struggles with this. Right now I'm reading CWMIs thread "would you believe this" and then I'm going to read atena's 180 link posted there. I really need to learn to detach from the pain and not be defined by it.

Strength.

Thanks HNC!

I'm making a list of books to read regarding this subject (like I don't already have 100 waiting for me!) maybe if I can find them at the library the time crunch will help me finish.

I don't think the 180 is of any value to recover your marriage.

the Crucial books are HR books more than anything else, but they helped me with lots of difficult conversations.

I see. I'll keep that in mind. Right now I am noticing thru CWMIs threads how much of LBs start out in your head. I know, I know. I've been told this all along. It just takes a while for some of us to let it sink in. I'm working on my thought processes.

Can anyone tell me how to post in this forum I am at a loss here and can't figure it out. Sorry in advance if this ends up in the wrong place.
I am having trouble with AO and DJ and just need a little encouragement.

amibroken, start up a new thread by clicking on "New Topic." A box will pop up and you can start a new thread.

You can only see "New Topic" when you come out of a thread and are looking at the list of all the threads in a particular forum.

So to start a thread in this forum, you need to be looking at the forum page for Marriage Builders 101 - where all the threads are listed.

"New Topic" is at the top of the list of threads.

Thanks for helping amibroken, guys!

Things that are standing out to me from CWMIs threads:

In order to stop DJs I must separate the WHAT from the WHY in my own head.

Also LovingAnyway said "You didn't react to your fears and you acted to your beliefs directly"

YUP.

It's a good thing CWMI was told so many different ways to clean up HER side of the street even though she made good points about her DHs behavior...that way I would get it.

And ditto on the DJs...I just needed to read it over and over.

MB has taught me so much about how to be a respectful person~

Everyone has the freedom to change their minds.
I don't have to exert unneeded energy trying to figure out the why and what
people are thinking. In fact it is disrespectful to do so.

There is so much more, but I am focused on these today.

I am glad you are getting something out of my threads. I do want you to know that several of my early "advisors" have since been removed from the boards...I would not recommend attempting to follow the advice of them.

Honestly, where my marriage is now is due in largest part to my H's change of work environment, which came with its own problems as told in "Duped". I have a very special husband, and it was essential for him to change how he interacted (or failed to, for the most part) with not only me, but others, in order for us to have the marriage we have today. I don't want you to think that just cleaning up your side will bring about a miraculous recovery, especially since your H has had affairs---which had absolutely nothing to do with your DJs prior, but may have to do with them now.

I agree with CWMI. Somehow your H has to make changes. I saw a near-180 in my H today, and it was our first session with Steve Harley. If he isn't considering your feelings, he won't miraculously start now. It may take a "wake up call" of some kind.

For me now in my marriage struggles, my job is to stay clean, but I cannot put up with bad behavior from my H forever. I am in tune with myself to know my limits, and I wanted to get help before I started "hatin'" I am no expert, but I would recommend getting outside help, Serious MB outside help. Your H doesn't sound like he's caring for you, though you are working very hard to care for him.

Other better posters, correct me if you see this differently!

Bless your heart, Anointed. You are a very kind person. I want you to be happy, not getting hurt any more!

(((((((((((Anointed)))))))))))))

Hi Anointed Sorry I haven't been around ... "life" happened!

Here's a few things that jumped out at me:

It is difficult, because one spouse is prone to write a complaint with DJs, and the other spouse is prone to bristle at complaints. Nobody likes to be told they've done something hurtful.

When you complain, do so in a matter-of-fact way. Leave the emotions out of it. "It bothered me when you did ..." "I felt is was disrespectful when you said ...."

When your spouse complains to you, swallow your pride and listen. You do care for each other, right? Are you willing to change in order to protect each other? Then you must need to know what needs to be changed ... so listen!


Feeling distant when you've been hurt is normal. You may not feel lovey-dovey after withdrawals were made from your lovebank, but you can be pleasant. You can use a pleasant tone in your voice, keep a pleasant look on your face. You don't have to be happy to be pleasant -- all this means is treating the people around you with kindness, even the one who has hurt you. Does he deserve kindness? Probably not. But remember, you probably don't either.


DJ!

What do your complaints look like on your worksheet? Would you care to post a few? If it includes asking him to humble himself, you are making DJs in your complaints, and they will NOT be heard. All he will hear is the critisim.


Remember what POJA is -- the Policy of Joint Agreement. It means NEVER do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse. If your husband is not enthusiastic about taking long runs and hard cardio, the solution is not to force it on him. He will not enjoy it, and he will resent you for it. The solution is to find something that both of you enjoy together.
If he is willing to try your workout, that is great! Try to make it a great time for him. But, in the end, if he decides he still doesn't like it, then find something else. Don't force it on him. He needs to enjoy his time with you as much as you need to enjoy your time with him.


Not every problem needs to be solved right now. Some take many, many negotiations. It can wait until you've calmed down.

If there is a major problem that seems to have no solution, set aside an hour a week to discuss it together, to brainstorm and negotiate. When you leave that hour, do not bring it up again until the next scheduled time. Spend the rest of the week engaging in enjoyable conversation!


Yes it would. This is a violation of Extraordinary Precautions.


And you should be. Your feelings are right on target. Listen to them.


Because he is not protecting you. He needs to know that it bothers you for him to travel overnight without you. He needs to know that it bothers you for him to go to such restaurants. "This bothers me ... can we negotiate?

Thanks CWMI! I do realize that it ultimately takes two people to have a successful marriage, but if I don't look hard at myself and make the necessary changes I will be half of the problem.

I appreciate you sharing your story.