Is this the first time that you have mentioned your own infidelity on your thread? I may have glazed over it previously, but I don't remember it.

What happened? WHo was OW? How long was the A? Etc. These details are an important part of your own recovery. Who was told about your affair?

And NO, your affair does NOT justify her having an affair of her own.

SW,

I think she is probably mad at herself and taking it out on you, I agree with CT she has to make you the bad guy in her story in order to sleep at night......When we are all by ourselves we know what we do wrong.........she knows what her part was and why her life and why her children's lives are what they are now......
It isn't your job to help her with her relationship with her children that is up to her. When she says something like she said to you about that just let her know it's up to her what kind of relationship she has with her children that you aren't involved with that any longer........she will have to work it out herself, nicely.....
When she asks for the finanical stuff just let her know that she doesn't have to worry she will get the info she needs.......
Tell her you don't understand her anger since this was her choice and if she is going to remain angry then you should just deal through your lawyers.....
Your affair doesn't give her the open door to have an affair but you could apologize for the one you had and tell her you now understand the pain you caused her ...........She will realize she did to you what she felt years ago......
Tell her you are struggling with coping yourself and having her text you all day long is difficult, tell her she has chosen to leave and that she shouldn't be the one angry but she is gone and you shouldn't have to deal with that anger any longer.......
the details will be worked out and tell her you are trying to cope with her choice to leave and change all your lives the best way you can........
If she has requests then she can go through her attorney.
It's good to vent .........I remember my husband was so angry with me a lot of the times and I didn't get it either, he had the affair, he changed the marriage, he signed the separation agreement, I was just trying to survive the chaos, and he was mad at me.....
A lot of this process makes no sense, don't waste your time trying to figure out something that is illogical and something that makes no sense........

Right on, JT!

Super advice!

She's nothing special. She's trying to demonize you to make what she's doing acceptable. Expect that she will bring up your affair more and more -- because it levels the field for her.

Weird. My H had an affair in our first year of marriage too.
But I didn't find out about it until I had an affair. He thought that revealing it would somehow help me admit mine.
Instead in my mind it further justified why we should divorce.

You need to start making it clear that you are not interested in an amicable divorce. She wants pension information? She can get it through the attornies. You will not be assisting her with these sorts of things that are divorce related. She should request it from her attorney, who will request it from yours...

Since she has filed, request sole use of the marital home.
And truly lock her out. Because you don't need her stealing your financial files, do you? And she will.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned it at the beginning of my story. The OW was a single girl, perhaps a couple years younger than me. She wasn't ever married. Long story, but I had caught my ring on a door and gashed my ring finger, so I took my wedding ring off to let it heal. Around that time, my wife (we were married for around 3 years, no kids yet) and her mother went on a trip to New York. My wife and I always wanted to go places, but could never afford it. My wife would always comment on this, saying we never went anywhere. Well, I wanted to go, but we could never work together on a budget to save money for these trips - she just wanted it to happen now. She always said her dad never took her mother anywhere, and she would compare me to her father in that sense. Which was totally untrue, but that's what she would tell me. So when the NY trip came around, she told me she wanted to take her mom there because her dad never did. Her mom helped her pay for part of their trip, and I was ok with it because at least she was going on a trip and it was making her happy.

But upon reflection, I feel it really had gotten to me, the fact that she didn't want to work on a goal to make our dreams come true, she wanted it here and now. So I think that was eating at me. So anyhow, I went to a wedding of a co-worker (while W and MIL were in NY), and long story short, since I didn't have my ring on, a girl was paying attention to me. Well, we got along good, and I guess I liked the attention that girl was giving me. When my wife got back from her trip, I didn't hide it, I just outright told her that I met another girl. The whole affair lasted less than two months. My wife moved out of our apartment in with her girlfriend. Before she moved out, but while I was still seeing this other girl, my wife and I had SF several times, right before she moved out and as a result became pregnant with our DS. So after her being out on her own for approximately the time it took her to realize she was pregnant, she called and told me the news. I had already begun to thaw because there was things about my wife that I missed and realized this other girl didn't have. I don't want to say my wife being pregnant was my rock bottom, because I was thawing, but it was the final nail that made me realize I had a family now and needed to be there. I told the OW that day that it was over and we never spoke or saw each other since. And that's been 19 years. I've been faithful to my wife ever since, realizing what I almost lost.

Through all that, I never once thought about leaving or divorcing my wife. It was weird, just like I was in my own little fantasy world, and she was on the outside. Almost someone I didn't know. She said I said hurtful things to her like "I don't feel the same about you", etc., just like she said to me now.

My family knew what was going on, her family knew what was going on. There were no secrets on either side of the family. Her friends knew as did my friends and co-workers. When we went back to visit her family after we had gotten back together, I was horrified. I was humiliated and ashamed of myself for doing this to my wife. There was no justification for what I did, no reason. I loved her then, just something "flipped" inside my head. I didn't hate her at all. So as we were driving back to her hometown to meet her family for the first time since my A, I didn't know what to expect. So I was surprised when her father came out, put his hand on my shoulder, shook my hand, and said "Welcome home <SW>", nobody on her family's side was angry, they were just happy we were a family again. Now that's not to say that nobody was happy with what I did, but nobody EVER brought that up to me in the past 19 years.

That's ok, don't be sorry, I'm doing good.

Here's the situation. In the past I would never hold a grudge against my wife. Most often, I would be the one to cave in so I wouldn't upset her. I never wanted to hurt her in any way, would always try to make sure she was happy, and I'm still this way. So I feel that she knows that's just my nature, try to make her happy. However, there are things I apparently didn't do, or do well enough for her to look for her happiness elsewhere. All this time, she knows the nature of me - being kind and not wanting to push her further away. And I think she knew that I would not pressure her too hard because I had an affair, so how could I hold this against her.

So all this time she's been using these characteristics that she knows I have, using these to play me, and keep me in check while she carries on her A.

Now suddenly she's seeing a different SW. One that isn't always getting back to her. One that appears to be indifferent to her. She may be realizing that here is my husband who was always there for me, always caved in to make sure I was happy, always was willing to kiss my butt to make sure he didn't upset me. Now he doesn't get back to me (trust me, if it's something important or serious kid related, I get back to her. The little that she has texted me since filing is nothing that I need to reply back to).

We all know that me carrying on like I have is having no affect on her, she's just thinking that I'm the same SW and she can go along her merry way through the D (if this is something she truly wants). So I've finally gotten to the point where I'm tired of not being respected, her using me as a doormat. I'm standing up for myself and my family, going forward with what is ahead for me. If it's not important, I do not get back to her. And this apparently is having some significant impact on her. She HATES the fact that I am not talking to her.

I stopped by church this morning on the way into work. As I got up to leave I looked over and lo and behold, there was my MIL sitting a little over. I went and chatted with her for a minute, we were very nice to each other, just like old times. As I was leaving the church, I felt the need to go talk to her more. I went back in and knelt down next to her and talked some more. I told her that I loved her daughter and would love her till the day I died. She already knew this. She replied that my wife would tell her "mom, <SW> won't talk to me, he won't answer my calls or get back to me." I told MIL that every time I talk to her that she just flames me and I can't get a word in edgewise, giving the recent conversations over the recent chain of events. My MIL said that I need to forget about those conversations. I told my MIL that I want to talk to my wife, but if it's about divorce to leave that up to the lawyers, that I don't want to talk about that. And that if she wanted to talk about anything else, I was open to it.

I said that my wife had said that I never told her I loved her throughout all this. She knew W had said this to me. I told MIL that whenever I would try to say something like this, she would just tell me to move on, or accept it. I said to my MIL, how can I tell her I love her when this is all I heard. MIL agreed. I also told MIL that my wife knows the door is open and that she can return anytime she wants. That's about all we talked about. My MIL knows that I still love her daughter. She knows this. I think she's just torn because she knows her daughter is in the wrong, but she cannot change her mind.

Guaranteed my MIL has already spoken to my wife about our conversation. Hopefully my MIL relays the correct conversation that we had.

So yes, my wife is upset that I don't get back to her. But I think this is also a good thing. She's seeing a side of me that she has never seen before. Someone who is standing up for themselves and not getting pushed around. Someone who still wants his wife back, but is no longer willing to put up with her BS. Will this have any affect? I don't know. I really am to this point, so I'm not acting in order for her to change. This is to make me feel better about moving on. If it has a positive impact on her, then I welcome that.

I did write her a letter last fall and in it I explained about the A I had and that I knew it hurt her. I'd have to find and reread it, but it was something along those lines. The letters that I did write to her last fall, the flowers I got her for our anniversary, she kept all those. I feel that during last August through September, that she was having small glimpses of reality. But she would still try to push me away, so I wouldn't pressure her. I wish I had known about MB.com back then.

Now we're to the point where I've apparently angered her more. Partly because of the exposure, partly because she needs to blame me for what she's doing and justifying the D. I'm just taking a wait and see approach now.

My wife is very bull headed and stubborn. I would be interested in how other people approached their WS's that are like this. I hate to say it, but I don't think being overly nice is getting through to her. I think with her, I need to fight fire with fire. If she throws an attitude at me, then I just ignore it like she doesn't matter anymore. The last time I did this last week and ignored her, she texted me the next morning apologizing (you saw that in my post a little bit up). So she doesn't have to apologize, yet she does. But if I kept being amicable to her, she would not feel the need to apologize. Yet when I give the image back that I don't give a damn, then she will apologize.

It's not that you don't give a Damn it's you demanding respect if you are treated or spoken to in a disrespectful way, won't be tolerated any longer, nothing wrong with that......
I think you are approaching her the right way, just don't engage in anything negative with her......
Stay calm, anything can be worked out without love busting or being disrespectful.
As long as you are protected financially and with the custody you want stay clear of her, for now.......
Keep working on yourself and showing her life without her will go on.........
She is probably just mad she has lost control of you and the situation.........let her stew......

Sent W an email this morning asking her for her financial information so I could complete DS's FAFSA application (student loans). She responded back within a half hour with the numbers. No questions asked, just the amounts. I looked at the numbers and felt both sorrow and laughter. Sorrow because she had less money than I thought, and laughter because it was just dumbingly stupifying how our marriage had gone down the crapper in such a short period of time. I don't know why, but I suddenly felt I needed to at the very least tell my wife I still loved her. I hadn't done that in a while. I'm sure she still knows it, just hadn't heard it.

I responded back to her email:

Thanks

I have to laugh, not at this, but how we let ourselves get to this point.

I still love you <W>. Always have and always will.

<SW>

She has not responded back at all yet. No "get over it", no "move on", no "accept it".

In any event, I felt better telling her that I still love her. Something I had to do. Still standing up for myself and will demand respect, not backing down, but also wanted her to know this.

I know Jessi just mentioned to let her stew, and I'm doing that because she does need to think. But I also felt the urge to also tell her this. I'm not putting up with her crap, but I still want her to know I love her.

My W is very stubborn and did fire at me much like your wife. I just ignored all of her anger and kept being nice. I didn't allow myself to be in doormat mode, but it took a lot of patience to deal with the hurtful things my wife said. I kept reacting with kindness no matter what happened. I basically wore her down. Now she's inviting me places and she has taken less of an attitude towards me. I chose that approach because of what I read in the bible about loving people and not acting in anger. Things are getting better, but not where they need to be. I just keep pushing forward with no expectations. Whether the divorce finalizes or we reconcile, I know I've done all I can.

Nothing major here, just talking.

My W just called. She asked if I heard about SIL? I said no what happened? My SIL's father just died suddenly. My wife heard from her mom. We talked briefly about it, and that it was very sad. I said it brought back memories from years ago (when my wife's dad suddenly died. We lived out of town and received the news), she paused like she had to remember,then agreed.

It was the first time I heard my wife's voice in almost 3 weeks. She sounded like she would any other time. Didn't bring up any anything about the divorce, or me. She did ask if DD was at her friends house (I said yes) and what DS had done last night.

My wife was coughing a lot, sounded like she had a chest cold. I asked if she was alright and she said yes, it's just her typical smoking cough. She's smoked for years and has always had a nasty cough. She had a chest x-ray 1 or 2 years ago cause she had a chest cold and the doctor said her lungs looked fine. At that time I didn't question her on it, but the way she always had a 'rattle' when she coughed, like there was something to cough up, I would think they would have seen something, but I guess not. Hard to imagine a smoker of that many years, with that type of cough has clear lungs. But she said she did. So anyway, when I heard her coughing on the phone this morning, to me it sounded like she had a nasty chest cold. But she said it was just her smoker's cough.

I hope her health is ok. She's too stubborn, like everything else, to stop smoking. It was good to hear her voice.

I have to ask myself on occasion whether the way that I'm reacting or handling this whole situation is good for any chance to reconcile. In other words, are my actions causing her to justify her thoughts on leaving me, or are they making her think? I've not contacted her. I have no reason to since I'm doing just fine with the kids. I have emailed her asking for information related to DS's student loan app, or to tell her the amount of $$ for her portion of bills. But I haven't just emailed, texted, or called her out of the blue to ask how she is. Or how her day is going. At times I want to do this, but then I remember she's the one that filed for D, so I ask myself why I need to communicate with her on how she's doing.

I'm waiting to see if there's some small glimpse that she may be thinking more about what this divorce is going to do to everyone, to everything. So far I have not seen nothing other than silence from her. The last text I got from her was last Monday, and it wasn't a very nice one, let me tell you! So she's been quiet until her call this morning. She's probably finally catching on that it does no good to yell at me since I'll just ignore her.

So do I just continue to keep silent? My feeling is she filed, so she must want this. I'm just going forward with my life. I figure that it does no good to always be pestering her with how she's doing. She evidently doesn't care, plus I'm not going to act weak in this situation, like I'm needy and always having to stay in touch. I'm moving forward in a calm, confident manner, working very hard to not let this bother me, and even though we don't communicate often, I'm hoping that she sees this in me or gathers it somehow that I will be just fine without her. If this has an impact on her, fantastic. If not, then it still benefits me.

I guess I can look at the fact that she even called me to tell me about SIL's father, as some type of communication from her. It was something important to tell me. She could have been nasty and just left me out of the loop figuring her brothers would tell me, 'since they like me and not her'.

Just a word of advice to anyone who is new to this situation and reading my thread: BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE, AVOID A SEPARATION. Unless of course there is physical or other serious abuse.

I wish I had known more about MB.com before my wife moved out. I would have done more to try to stop her. If there is an OP involved in the situation, then your spouse moving out only means that they want more guilt-free time to be with them. Take it from first hand experience, they do not want to work on the marriage by deciding what to do. Nope, it's entirely because of the OP.

By separating, you will only make it that much harder to Plan A and carry on any communication that could be beneficial in the path towards possible reconciliation.

So please, if you can take anything away from what you've learned in my thread, please avoid allowing your WS to separate from you.

Another word of advice, if you're fortunate enough to find out about this website right after discovery of the A, then please follow the advice of the vets and do what they suggest. Do a nuclear exposure right away. I did expose right away, but I did not do the Facebook exposure until almost 6 months later when I finally learned about MB.com and took their advice. Had I discovered MB.com earlier, I think my situation would be a little better than it was now. I don't think my W would have filed because she would have had less time invested in the OM. She was too entrenched by the time I did the FB exposure and while I think it helped to put a crimp in the A, it also pushed my W over the edge.

So to summarize: avoid a separation by any means possible, and do a nuclear exposure right away. Trust me on this. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

It sounds like you are doing what is referred to as a Plan C.
That is neither a Plan A or Plan B
You are kind of talking with WW sometimes but not dropping pebbles of adorable husband in her pond.

it is your choice to proceed this way but Plan C is not a plan recommended by Marriage Builders.

Reading, I understand what you're saying and you are correct in that I'm not dropping pebbles in her pond. This is not because I don't want to, I'm just confused as to how it can cause her to see me any differently. She has to be to the point in her mind where the M is over, otherwise she would not have filed. I don't want to Plan C. Interesting that Plan C is where Melody said I was when I first began posting here. I would rather Plan A, just don't see how when she rarely contacts me. And me contacting her more, well I'll explain more my thoughts on that:

Something I read on another forum:

You have got to get this through your head - there is nothing you can do. Anything you do or say will drive your W even further away. You keep trying to control her and this situation. You cannot. You have to accept the fact that to her, your marriage is over. She does not love you. She will not change her mind unless she wants to.

It is excruciatingly painful to realize and accept the fact your marriage is over; we have all done that or are doing that. Move forward. You can't go back to what you had.

She knows how you feel, everyone on here is telling you to stop pursuit or anything that can be construed by W as pursuit. The only person who can stop your W from continuing forward is your W, and she is showing no signs of doing so. You must put your faith in the fact that things will work out as they will, you cannot do anything more to change it.

Again, the D is just another step, if it comes to that. Listen to these experienced people on here, they know what they are talking about.

Believe me, every day I feel like I want to call my W, but, then I know that she needs this time away, she needs the space, what must happen will happen. I can only go on living my life.

The way I see things now:

1. If I try to communicate with her outside of key critical things now (kids, etc.), she will see this as me just not accepting the fact that she filed for D. That I am weak and needy. I can't imagine she would see this as a strong, positive attribute of a husband that she would want.
2. If I move on with my life, basically accepting that D is what she wants (but certainly not enabling the D), then this will either make her happy, or she may begin to see a man that is strong, confident, and not afraid to go forward by himself. These are positive attributes that if anything may make her think and see as something she would like.

Either way, #2 above is in my best interest more so than #1. The second thought puts me in more of a positive view, whereas the first one does not. It just reinforces her thoughts of why she doesn't want me.

As they say, you tend to want things you cannot have. If I'm no longer an option to her, then she may begin to think about the ramification of where she's heading.

There is a wealth of information archived in these forums. Somewhere are cases of spouses that were/are in the same position I'm in and they either made it or didn't. I would so much like to hear from people who have read similar threads and their outcome one way or the other. With this site, we have two tools: 1) MB concepts, 2) the wealth of real world outcomes from people in similar situations. I work with databases, so I'm well aware of the amount of hidden, useful data that an archive has to offer.

I'm reaching out to people that can tell me of past threads/stories that are similar to where I'm at right now. I would like to read, good or bad, how people dealt with it.

Something I want to mention is my wife's birthday is on the 23rd. It just so happens that's when they rescheduled our temporary stipulation hearing on, where we figure out placement, bills, etc, in the interim.

We all went out to eat on my birthday last month, my wife bought supper. I have no idea what, if anything, to do for her birthday. Things have changed so much since my birthday. Plus, what's happening that day does not help.

I think because of the nature of what we will be doing on her birthday, anything else I do will come across as meaningless. Plus, I'm sure if her relationship with OM is still in good standing, that they will do something special for her birthday.

So what have other people done for their WS's birthday once that spouse has already filed?

One reason you are plan C-ing is that you are on other forums.

They don't follow the marriage builder plans.

They ARE plan C forums.....and the input you get there is valid but not marriage building. I am going to suggest you don't visit the other forums. You can get through this with more focus/clarity using this one only. I know it is tempting to go to the other ones while you are on the painful rollercoaster and trying to make sense of what's happened in your life.

Sure. WW may never come back to you and you may need to accept that the marriage is done for.

Following a Plan A and then Plan B would protect what YOU feel for her if she ever wanted to reconcile.

Basically, with marriage builders, you are her knight in shining armor who tells her she is pretty and smart and you love her laugh and you invite her out bowling/dancing/eating and yet if she is nasty to you, you do not take the bait and be nasty back. In plan A you do protect your finances and kids as best as you can though. You just don't discuss your actions to do so with a wayward. They don't care much.
You can write nice letters to her and send them via snail mail too. You write short stories, poems, about politics or sports. Old fashioned but powerful. Use your best handwriting in them (not typing out and printing). Put a pressed flower in one. Etc.

Then, plan B....you give a gorgeous letter telling her how you would adore to have a romantic, monogamous marriage with her and shut the door to her access to you so she can have her life without you and you can heal from the mess.

Your children will see a father who is in touch with his emotions and yet able to rise above it all to be a good man. You model kindness to others and yet how to protect your own boundaries and self.

If you ever do Plan B, your WW will also have a model of how to not accept any attempt of contact from a lover. How to stay dark to them (which a wayward would need to do with the partner in adultery to recover the marriage)

still, you're on other forums? That will create a lot of confusing information for you.

How about on her birthday you gather the family, kids and all and have a nice party.
You and the kids make a yummy cake for her. Ask her what kind she wants this year.
Give her gifts and spend time together with her, the kids and whomever else you think would like being at the gathering who she enjoys in your circle of friends, family.

Yes, you are having a legal issue that day, but, still observe her birthday. Heck. If you plan it that is that much less time she and another person will spend together that day. (lolololol)

Understand how it works?

You're the best husband while you still are her husband.

That will be a lot for her to consider in the future.

Ditto what stillwaiting said! (and dont let your ws push you out of the house either!)