Did you mean Jan 2012? So you have only been married a few months?

I mean january 2012! sorry!

yes, jan 2012. only married a few months.

So this relationship started prior to D being final, which makes it an affair. Does that make this an affairage?

You need to talk to your attorney. I doubt you can keep him from seeing the kids, however, you have the right to some sort of schedule that he sticks to--at the very least notice ahead of time of when he wants to visit. Say 30 days notice. And I certainly hope your family stops the enabling of loaning a car and providing room and board to him.

I also doubt you will be required legally to send 3 small children that far from you when he refuses to provide his address to you.

All of his blame and anger are just blah blah blah....just stick to the necessary issue which is how to best do your part to facilitate visitation according to your legal responsibility.

ITA with ing woman.

I just can't figure out why it's even a question. In my separation agreement there are things spelled out that I never even thought of. I could never take my kids across state lines without WRITTEN permission/agreement. If I can't be with my kids (let's say I have to work late); I have to call and ask the ex FIRST if she wants to keep them before I ask someone else to stay with them -- a babysitter, my GF, or my own mother. Likewise for her obviously.

Tinkerbell, did you set up an appt with attorney to go over these details?

Out of curiosity, are you discussing all this at length with the new husband? Have you read HNHN for Parents? -- there is a great section there on blended families. My GF and I have talked a lot about that material and trying to implement those concepts. Her ex is pretty much out of the picture, but once in a while he gets a call through and she's usually upset about it for at least a day. He's also a loser. But we talk and it helps. My ex has actually been very cooperative and miraculously just seems to want to try to be a good mom, but we still follow the sep agreement very closely I'd say - I paid money for that and I think it's important to honor it and see that it's enforced.

opt

My guess is she went home to IA and then filed for divorce. Or she just filed in CA and asked for permission (from the court) to go home and he didn't fight it because well he is a loser. He probably couldn't have stopped her anyway, but he would have at least got a judge to sign off on a specific visitation plan. Hard for you to imagine it Opt, but there are men who just shrug visitation off...I suggested to my best friend she have loser/cheater XH sign off on visitation with this wording, 'reasonable visitation at BW's discretion.'

At any rate, I would worry only about my legal responsibility at this point with a man such as she has described. If he wants more of a relationship with his kids he can move back to IA and set up a normal visitation schedule AND begin paying his court ordered cs.

So because my D wasn't finalized you are putting me in the same category as people who have A's? I am sorry, but I don't think that is fair at all. My D would have been finalized in DECEMBER but WXH refused to SIGN them. Then I had to get the papers served to him, which took me a couple months bc I didn't have the MONEY to pay for the guy to go find him and serve him the papers. Plus it took him a few attempts to catch my XH at work. The M was completely over, there was no turning back. I was not changing my mind and I FILED for D, one month before I even started TALKING to my new H. I didn't even run into my new H until DECEMBER. And I wasn't dating him until January of 2011. The D was to be finalized in DECEMBER and I ran into trouble in JANUARY. but make no mistake, I was never going to wait around for years for my WXH to turn around and come home. He made it clear that he was not coming home and he never called his kids and he said he wanted nothing to do with reconciling. So no I did not have an A.

I have a court order for CS and the D agreement was that we have joint custody with me having primary custody because I filed for the boys to be residents of IA when I left CA in March of 2010. So the judge said that I couldn't keep the kids from him, that if he chose to come and visit them that I had to let him. I understand that. Now my question for the judge is, does he have the right to take them to CA? I don't think he does. If I remember correctly, he has to have my permission to take them anywhere outside of the town I live in. Although I know my XH thinks he can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants. I don't know what he has up his sleeve, but at some point I think he will want the boys with him. He thinks he is a "stellar" dad.

Yes, the M was "over". But you were still married.

I know it's not fair. But that's how it is.

Well, you just need to read the divorce decree carefully and if it doesn't say you have to let him take the kids to CA just tell him no.

I also would be very clear with him that if he wants to visit the boys in IA he has to have the means to do so....either his own relative to stay with or a hotel. And a car of his own....rented if need be.

Attorney advice is critical.

As to the remarriage so quickly, I'm gonna vote that it is not an AFFAIRAGE per se but a rebound or relay race style marriage and I wish you and your new hubby well Tink.

I know you gave ex H every single oppurtunity to be a decent guy and he did not take the chance. Plus, you were having a newborn and need a good, supportive man to be your partner.

Thank you reading. I appreciate that. I will def talk with my lawyer about visitation agreements. And I did get into a R quickly and got married a year later, fast I know. I decided when I started feeling love for this man that I wanted to have a good M and I knew and still know that my H is committed to me, to our M and to our children. We know what EN each of us has and we do our absolute best to meet them. Obviously there are ups and downs in every R, but just bc circumstances such as having to work a lot or stress from kids that doesn't mean we can't meet eachother's EN. We will not D bc neither of us will allow it.

Yea true, married according to the state, which seems to think they are God Almighty. Tell me this, why do we go to the STATE to get marriage licenses and divorces? Shouldn't we be going to God and not the atheistic government. Just my opinion. The state can't tell me if I am truly married or not. I think having a ceremony and making vows before God is what makes you married. I am not property of our government, although this is what they want. This is why we are issued certificates when we are born and when we die. This is why we are given social security numbers. We are all slaves and not by choice in most cases. Unless you have a buttload of money. Really I'm going down a rabbit trail now, but my point is, big brother can't tell me if I'm married or divorced or not.

Well, marriage is a business contract.

It is ideally full of love and devotion.

The state is the final word on the contractual ramifications and the bottom line on when it begins and ends.

People in most societies on our planet enter the contractual relationship usually with rose colored glasses on and sometimes the glasses come off and you deal with the crippling and or demise of the relationship. It happens in a formal way in order to keep the sanctity of the concept of the contract.

So, in essence, the state can tell you when you are legally married or not. You can decide that you will not stay in a marriage due to the circumstances and know that you will definitely not stay partners with that person due to their lack of character. Few people want to be in business with someone who chooses to gyp them and chooses to continue abusing the business venture. This is what you did.

YK?

It sounds like you are both committed to being "Buyers" in this marriage.

I believe the State helps define the boundary of marriage -- when it starts, when it ends, and some of the legal ramifications/implications. Within that "contract" as reading states, there is an infinite number of interpretations if you think about the different kinds of marriages you might be familiar with. I like the MB marriage concept -- I think it is most likely to lead to a fulfilling relationship and a healthy satisfying life.

So, by all means, your actual committment to each other is very much defined by your own personal views and joint approach -- most likely rooted in your religious convictions.

Anyway. I was going to say that I'm probably going to find myself married to my GF, Nature Girl (if she'll have me). We started dating 3 months after the D was final. Much like you, Tink, many feel that's too early. Heck, I think it's too early. I never intended to get serious with NG that soon, but I was just out to meet some people and we clicked so much I suddenly had no interest in doing anything else but being with her.

I think the important thing is to recognize what you're dealing with. And then look at it through MB lens. In my case, I should technically be waiting until my kids are grown to ideally get remarried -- that's what Harley recommends. Unfortunately it's too late for that; I've got a committent going with a wonderful classy woman who my kids can respect and learn a lot from. So we make sure we're applying all the principles we can and guard against the pit-falls of all the natural enemies of a good union, as well as the ones inherant in getting together too early (like giving the kids time to adjust to the whole concept and being really patient with them).

Am I making sense, TB? You have to take inventory of your situation and then apply MB as best as you can. That may be more or less difficult for you and your husband due to the circumstances and the choices you made that lead up to you getting married. Dating before the ink on the D papers is dry is not recommended, not condoned, not supported here WHY? because it TYPICALLY leads to failure. If you know that and understand it, you can work through it, anticipate problems, and POJA things even more attentively. It doesn't mean you are bad or unworthy of being here in my view. If we all followed MB principles every time, every day, perfectly, to the T, and without fail, there would be no need for this website or the radio show, or for Dr. Harley to continue to counsel folks -- we'd all read the books and live happily ever after.



opt

Yes I understand what you are saying. I know that it was too early, but I fell in love again and I didn't want to raise my children alone. He supported me through my D as a friend and it obviously became more. I chose to marry him bc I love him and bc our kids, surprisingly, get along really well and they were happy that we got married. My H has two girls and they are 13 and 10. They said they were tired of seeing their dad all alone and sad sometimes bc he hadn't found a woman to spend his life with. They are great kids and very supportive of their father. He always takes their needs seriously as well as mine and my kids. He does a great job of balancing everything right now even under a lot of stress. My kids love my H and yes they are sad about their biological dad, but they rarely see him and that is their dad's choice. I know the recommendation is to wait until your kids are grown, but I also feel that is unrealistic and unfair. As a single mom I would have had to work full time while trying to go to school part time. I would never see my kids. In fact, I rarely saw them when I was going to school and working before I started dating my H. Yes I had family to help me, I lived with them. But I never would have gotten out on my own with my own place unless I worked all the time. Also I wanted my kids to have a father figure since their real dad is MIA. It is my XH who created the whole entire mess and I never would have chosen this road, of D and remarriage if he hadn't been unfaithful and completely checked out of the M, not willing to come back. I gave him every opportunity and every chance in the world to come back to the M. He repeatedly turned me down and left me rejected and alone. So yes, I know I jumped into a R and M with my new H, but I also knew then and know now as well that I really didn't want to see anybody else or talk to anyone else but him. I am human, not perfect. So in a lot of ppl's opinions I should have waited, but I didn't. I am following the MB principles for our M and he is learning everything he can from MB. We are dedicated to it and our faith in God is what holds us together. We wanted a family for our children. The girls' mom is a deadbeat just like my ex. I don't try to be their mom and he doesn't try to be my kids' dad. We treat eachother's kids with respect and love and leave the discipline to the biological parent, unless we have permission from that parent to discipline their children. That is something we agreed upon and has worked well. The girls love to talk to me about girl things bc they have been missing that with their mom. It is obvious to me that they needed a female role model. The 13 yr old was starting down a destructive path before her dad got custody. She is doing so much better after living with her dad and I. She is much happier and getting straight A's in school. I know my H is devoted to me and to our family. I know my XH was never truly devoted to me or to our kids. He put on a good show. But after much counseling during the separation and D, I realized how abusive and manipulative he had been even from the beginning of our R and M. So God forgive me if I started seeing a good man 2 to 3 months before my D was final.

Tinkerbell, so nice to hear from you again! I've wondered what happened with you.

In truth, yes, I'm a little concerned that you have chosen to remarry so quickly. You put the cart before the horse. Be very careful as you navigate this new marriage.

As far as your ex goes: I remember reading your thread and thinking that he was dumping a ton of garbage on you. It sounds like he is continuing to do so. He appears to be irresponsible, self-centered, destructive and reckless.

Read that last sentence again. Would you want anyone who fits that description to spend an afternoon with your kids, let alone an extended length of time? I'm thinking NO. Get your attorney to help you to do whatever it takes to keep your children safe.

MB! I remember how much you helped me when I was going through everything with my XH. I do appreciate all the help you gave me when I was going through that difficult and unstable time.

I understand your concern for my new M. Yes I did put the cart before the horse as you said. I know we will need to do what it takes to make this work and that MB principles are the best to help us navigate our new M.

Yes my XH is still up to his old tricks. Always dumping crap on me. He is still very much a narcissist and yet he says that I am the most selfish, evil woman on earth. He even said I was satan himself, in the flesh. And this was about a month ago. He says this bc I have the kids. It is just ridiculous.

Sweetie, arm yourself with legal help. Please don't let your ex take the kids without a fight.

I'm glad to hear you feel you're in a better place, but it's very important that you and your H strictly follow Marriage Builders concepts. Understand and practice the POJA, O&H, etc - your current marriage started on shaky ground. Build it up.