Read my above post.

This should also help you in plan A by letting your WH know that you're hurt from his affair.

Plan A is not plan doormat.

Indiegirl is directing you well. Listen, read and educate yourself by asking questions.
Got exposure?

Meaning my conditions like NC with internet women, committing to program, polygraph, no female fb friends, passwords, etc? Do I give him that list before or after exposure? That's not really part of Plan A, right? He has to agree to those things to even do Plan A, correct?

So when he meets my conditions, then we do the marriage recovery program and I could try to get him to talk with Steve Harley? This is really what I want, the recovery program. The affair has upset me but we've been going downhill with LBs, POJA, etc for several years and I've been begging him to do ANY kind of program during all this time. He always insisted that he was fine, it was me who had the problem with our relationship. I have seen improvement in him in response to me starting the MB program by myself but I really need him to do it too because the LBs that he does are just breaking my heart, especially when I have used everything in my power to stop doing them myself and to try to meet his needs.

This of course includes moving to where he wanted to live and letting go of my dream to stay in my hometown where I am happy. This was a huge sacrifice for me but (before the affair) I resolved to do it and was very hopeful and saw all of the good things that I might love about moving. Now of course I'm having doubts. My husband seems to be genuine about wanting to stop all affairs but he's resistant to the MB program, as always. He says he'll do it, but when it comes down to the individual POJA decisions or LBs, he goes ahead with them despite my direct requests against them. I think part of the problem is that he won't read the MB books and only vaguely knows some of the basic concepts from the few times he has sat down with me to read over them online (maybe 3 times in 18 months). Also he knows some of the concepts from me explaining them to him.

I know for sure I will be trying Steve Harley, does he do evenings and weekends? How much is a session and is it covered by insurance?

Thanks Brain. That helps. So if he says something really nasty I should calmy point out that it hurts my feelings, even during Plan A. That makes so much sense. Show him what a wonderful spouse I am, but don't take any serious LB.

I'm working on the exposure, very distraught about it, but planning to expose tonight or tomorrow night.

Yes you still let him know the behaviour hurts you, but do not debate, or try and educate him.

Coaching center tab at the top shows about prices and scheduling, but it won't do much if your husband is still active in his affair.
I know you want to sprint to recovery but this is a marathon and if you follow the plans you will have a recovered marriage.

So your part of the plan is exposure plan A carrot and stick.

More articles on plan a Dr. Harley's Plan A and Plan B

Did you read this yet?
Melodylane's Exposure 101

Yes, I did read that, it's very helpful. I am not, however, following it to the letter because of my fears and also I feel that my situation is a tad different bc WH had sexual encounters with unknown women online -- I have no spouses to reveal to, don't know who any of the women know (and I don't care to know). Also this occured last fall and WH tells me he's on board to stop. Here is my list of targets: His parents, his close friends, my parents, some of my close friends.
This list has slowly grown as Indie has coached me. What do you think?

Email these "unknown women" yourself and advise them that you are the wife of (whatever vile web name he uses) and if they don't want their photos/conversations used as evidence in court, they better stop all contact with your husband. Sure it's a bit of a bluff. So what?


It's a mistake to trust liars.
Don't be trusting.
Be vigilant.
It is good for the marriage if you become more (not less) vigilant.



What surveillance equipment have you purchased/installed?
Have you required that WH take a lie detector exam?
You should. It's not negotiable.
Men who want to prove they can now be trusted will GLADLY submit to such an opportunity to prove themselves.
Tell WH it is so you can build trust that you have the lie detector requirement.
If he sees the test as a invasion of privacy (secrecy) or that you are being unreasonable or paranoid ....

If WH sees the test as an opportunity to put this all behind him .... I'd do a happy dance.

Has WH ever paid anyone for sex? Online sex? Online sexy/nude photos?
Have you checked his computer for porn use?

I think there is something very fishy going on here.

Yes, he does have a major porn problem. He looks at nude porn pics at least weekly, I've just asked him to make it so I don't have to see him doing it. I guess we'll have to tackle that in recovery bc I've felt that he can't stop. I don't think he paid any of the women but one of them seemed to have been paid for her online services in the past by others.

Here is my list of conditions:
1. NC with OW
2. No female fb friends or contact with women online (unless relatives)
3. Polygraph test
4. Commit to marriage recovery plan of my choice
5. No female friends
6. All internet passwords given to me
7. I'd like to add no LBs but that's supposed to be part of recovery.

These are my "conditions" to stay married to him, which Indie helped me with. What exactly happens if he doesn't agree to them? I'm a bit unclear on that.

Oh and he seems to be really ashamed about his fondness for porn.

This is bad.
Very bad.
Worse than you know.

Your M is doomed to be a non-intimate M unless WH stops this ugly behavior.

I don't care.
He needs to stop.
Cold turkey.

What?! He's always done this and I don't understand? I know it's bad but didn't know it was so serious.

Proverbs 26:11
As a dog returns to it's vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.

Could you give me more information about the implications of porn addiction? Is there any method to help them stop? Should this be one of my conditions?

LINK to "Other Topics" MB forum

Its a violation of POJA to agree to things you are unenthusiastic about.

No spouse should allow others to meet their needs. Particularly an intimate need like SF.

Many people think porn is ok bc its an actress, but she's still fulfilling a need. Two if she's also fulfilling a need for PA.

When a married man gets needs met elsewhere he gets a huge dopamine high which causes addiction.

Having had an EA yourself you prob remeber the 'high' of having a need met - whether it be affection etc - elsewhere.

In an A a WH is addicted to the woman, but in porn use he becomes addicted to the format.

In your case it also blurred the lines of morality and made it seem fine to contact strangers on the web for sex.

Regarding #7
I think there is something you can do early on.
Download the LoveBusters Questionnaire. Give a completed copy to WH. From your side. Ask WH to complete his side of the LB questionnaire.
LINK
PORN is a huge LB.
It needs to be high on your list.

It is my belief that watching porn will not be enough for your WH.
Watching porn will 'gateway' him into seeking other polluted, dishonest sexual releases.

If you do not make porn an issue and require he stop, there will be no recovery.
Sorry. Honesty is sometimes very hard to hear.

((( hugs )))
You did nothing to 'deserve' any of this.

LINK to Dr Harley's article

Here is a part of the article:

If he doesn't agree to your conditions right away, continue to negotiate with him for the week(s) you are Plan Aing him. Say you will need him to agree ENTHUSIASTICALLY in order for you to believe he has changed.

Tell him you have no interest in coercing him, you just want to enjoy your time with him and hope that he feels enthusiastic about making you feel safe before you leave. Otherwise you cannot stay.

If he does not agree within Plan A time limits, go to PLan B

Thank you dearly pep and indie! I've been thinking about this porn issue lately, that maybe it led to the internet sex.

Good lord, it seems like the picture just keeps getting worse. I feel like I'm in a impossible storm of issues here.

Question -- should I put no porn at all on my list of conditions?

I have major doubts about WH agreeing enthusiastically to my terms. What if he agrees but not enthusiastically? Then what? Does that mean I have to do Plan B? The terms are applying lots of limits on things that are a big enjoyable part of his life (not meaning the affairs, but the internet in general). He spends a lot of time on the internet, especially fb because most almost all of his friends and family are out of state or out of the country.

Another thing -- in my list of conditions, is it ok to put "no female fb friends or opposite sex friendships unless I approve them"