I'm willing to be overruled by the vets, but I would. 'No porn use of any kind'
I would also change no female FB friends to 'no female FB friendships or any form of internet contact with women'

You don't want him just switching to Twitter or MySpace.

He should not have any opposite sex friendships of any kind - no MBer should.

You should not approve his having one in any case, regardless of the womans character.

A lack of enthusiasm is a big that he is just stringing you along in a FR. You should not be married to someone who is unenthusiastic about making you safe. I would then Plan B him.



You would need to monitor his internet use, using a keylogger most likely but also parental controls that ban porn sites.

I would consider getting rid of his solo FB page and setting up a couples FB page so it will remove the temptation to speak to women inappropiately. He can't make jokes about oral sex when his FB Id is 'Mr and Mrs Hoping'

Well indie, I finally did the exposure and I'm so glad that I did. My parents were so understanding, I really needed their support. WH had apparently already told his dad about the affair, and I haven't heard back from WH's mom yet.
WH called me immediately and said "Don't worry sweetheart, there's nothing going on, quit telling people."
I then used the moment to bring up my list of conditions. He flat out refused to do the polygraph, first thing on the list. I didn't get to anything else. I really don't want to lose him, this is such a bad sign.
He basically told me that if there was more that he's done, it won't do any good now for me to find out about it. Also said he's "sick of doing everything I say," that's why he doesn't want to do the polygraph.
AAAHHHHH!!! This is bad. He obviously has things hidden in the past. What if, Indie, there were things in the past and he doesn't repeat them? Am I being delusional? I don't think there's anything going on right now, maybe he's had ONSs or something. Should I stay with him even if he doesn't agree to the polygraph? He reallly does love me and I love him. He's a decent husband, affectionate, sweet at times, supportive. Maybe he has been unfaithful but I don't think he's in love with anyone else. I just don't want to lose him.
What do I do next?

Amazing. Let's bask in the glow of this q significant success for a mo.........................

Alright,


That is very entitled and unrepentant. Though the fact exposure is bugging him bodes well as that means its working.

He is not repentant yet, though.

However it is pretty common for waywards to remain unrepentant about their affairs for some time.

Some become repentant upon exposure, others during Plan A, others during Plan B, others never.

He may have told you he was sorry, immediately upon being caught but those were just words.


Did WH tell you that? That could easily be a lie.



Or the present - and very probbably the future, considering the nature of his addiction. If he changes his position on this, great, if not you are doomed to a FR


NO!!!!!!!




My dear girl, he is unrepentant, wayward and refusing to do anything about it. He loves nothing aside from his addiction.

A man who loved you would be on his knees, weeping with gratitude that are things he can do to make you trust him again.



Well he is currently lost. If you want to make the loss more dramatic you can take him back without conditions which will see his addiction continue as before. One day he will leave you for some freaky chick who believes in orgies and open relationships. Possibly at a time when you are much older than you are now.

Now. If you want to recover, YOU NEED THOSE CONDITIONS.

Proceed with your Plans and never let him see you waver on the conditions. He is testing you right now to see if you will cave.

Tell him: "This is what it will take to keep me in the marriage"

Are all exposure targets hit?

Will they call WH and tell him to work on the marriage?

Hoping,

It is extremely natural for a wayward to push back - to test the BS to see how much he or she really means what she says when those conditions are put up for them!

Make no mistake, this is a test you MUST pass!!!!

If you don't, you will NOT be taken seriously in the future.

You've drawn the line in the sand. Now he wants to see if he can really get by with crossing his big toe over it.

Don't let him! Stick to your conditions or you will regret it; he'll just go back to cake-eating.

What you are feeling is panic: panic that you could lose him if you stick to your guns. Believe me... living in limbo in a false recovery is much worse than anything else you can imagine.

Glad your parents were supportive!

I did all parents and some choice close friends. My parents aren't going to talk to him about it, they are non-confrontational type people. WH asked if I told my parents and when I said yes, he became upset just knowing that they know. They gave me lots of support and I told them after I talked to him that he refused the polygraph. His dad said that WH had already told him (because he asked what was wrong), they talked about it, and "he won't do it again," and I "shouldn't worry about it, it's in the past." WH's mom hasn't responded yet (she is in another country and I wrote her an email). WH's friends haven't responded yet to my fb letters.
When I started telling WH my "conditions," I didn't tell him they were conditions to stay with him, should I do that now? I'm having a hard time with Plan A now because of all this anger he has toward me. I wanted to go through the conditions point by point but he was so upset about the polygraph that he argued for a while then said he couldn't stand to talk to me anymore. Should I just email him the full list of conditions now and what it means if he doesn't meet them?
Do you think he might change his mind about the polygraph? My situation really seems hopeless at this point and I am very down. I'm at work too, hopefully it'll be a slow day -- I'm a medical pracitioner and work in an urgent care.

One thing weighing on my mind:
I'm planning to go see him in Texas for a week on 3/27. This is my Plan A but I only have one week to do it.
I could return in another 4-6 weeks for a longer trip. I am dreading this coming trip. I can see lots of heartache. Seeing him will be very difficult and my heart my melt in response to his pleas for me to forgive him and stay (without the polygraph).

I still want to do this because I will not be happy without a good Plan A, I need to give it a shot. I think I will give him my full list of conditions sometime in the next few days and then meet all his needs and do a killer Plan A when I am visiting.
I want to wait a few days to send the list because I'm hoping the dust will settle after the exposure and he'll be more receptive. When do I bring up the conditions again after Plan A? It probably shouldn't be during my trip, as this will lessen the effectiveness of the Plan A. Maybe after I leave I will ask if he is ready to agree to my conditions?

At some point I would mention that your parents are rooting for the two of you and hopes that he abides by the conditions (don't say this if not true though)

Its one thing for him to be upset by peoples lost opinion of him, its important for him to see its possible to get that back using your conditions.



Yes. Why not send him an email, include the fact that your friends and family are rooting for the two of you (if true) and that you believe your marriage can thrive and be better than ever using these conditions.


You haven't finished your Plan A yet. During Plan A you negotiate with the WS, insisting they end their adulterous behaviour and safeguard the marriage.

Negotiations have only just begun. It is important he realise that if he chooses to get on board with option one, he will get a)All his ENs met by a loving wife, b)credit from all your supporters for doing the right thing and working on the marriage and c)the financial and emotional benefits of saving his marriage. If he chooses option two, he will lose you.

In your negotiations make this very clear. You will NOT stay in an unsafe marriage.

If he wants an unsafe marriage, its because he wants the freedom to cheat.



I'm not surprised you feel down. His reaction to the poly will have unleashed all sorts of "what ifs"

His reaction to exposure (We're done unless I can continue with my addction!) is pretty common, and it does not mean things are hopeless. Things are only hopeless if you allow him back with no conditions.

As you will have already read the reaction to exposure is often the reaction of a crack head who has had his pipe taken away. They threaten all sorts.

As for your job, I had to tell my employers about what I was going through and they helped me out.

Don't be a hero.

So he called me this morning in a sunny mood, saying he had found a nice neighborhood with reasonable home prices that he thinks we both might like.
Gave me some hope and opportunity to Plan A.
He asked how my parents are and this gave me the opportunity to say they were upset but are hoping for us to recover our marriage.
He got yelled at by his mother but he wasn't mad at me about this.
He brought up that still will never take Polygraph.
??
This is really pulling my heartstrings. Calling me being so sunny, pleasant, loving, then saying no way, still won't do polygraph. I didn't even ask him, just reminded him that we could recover if he follows my conditions. I probably shouldn't keep mentioning the conditions, just email him a long email with them included so my intentions are clear and then change the subject when he brings it up. That way I won't lose more love units on this.
Thoughts?

You clearly meet a lot of needs. If he values those needs, he'll get on board. Looking at houses will provide excellent plan A opportunities. Flirt and paint the picture of what kind of life he can have.with you.



Keep her on board. If he throws away his marriage over a refusal to sit a poly, I am sure she will have something to say. Can you call/email her for support?



You did right ignoring this silly negotiation gambit. He is hoping for you to beg and plead so he can throw you some crumbs, like email passwords. He persuades YOU not the other way around.



This is a personal opinion, but I would send a carrot email, then the stick email.

Something like...

'I am really excited, can't wait to look at some houses. Can't wait to wake up in your arms every morning'.. Then stuff the email with EN meeting - whatever his top ENs are, get them in there.

Then toward the end say: 'This amazing life will be possible just as soon as we make our marriage safer and avoid repeating the problems of the past. I'll email you later with those conditions I need.'

Then some time later send the conditions.

Be aware he will prob freak. That's ok.

Keep her on board. If he throws away his marriage over a refusal to sit a poly, I am sure she will have something to say. Can you call/email her for support?

[quote]

Done, just emailed her about the polygraph and how I really want to stay married to him but can't without this to restore my trust.
I read her email to him about the affairs and it was really good. She basically said that he will never find anyone who takes such good care of him so quit destroying his marriage. She explained that it's impossible to be be married to someone who is unfaithful (WH's dad was unfaithful to her and they divorced over it) so he needs to build trust and never repeat his behavior again.

I will work on a "carrot" email and then send the list of conditions later. I don't think it's completely clear to him that if he doesn't meet the conditions then I won't stay married to him so the conditions email will be very important. I thought I told him but the way he's acting it doesn't seem to have sunk in. He seems to think that I will let it go and we will live happily ever after.
What do you think if I put the clear conditions and the implications of not meeting them at the end of the carrot letter rather than sending the stick letter a few days later?

Good lord! WH's mom freaked out when I mentioned the polygraph and she then wrote him an email saying not to accept such a "humiliating" demand on my part. I went in to his email and erased it before he could see it and then wrote back to her explaining why I need the test. She is definitely NOT my friend in this. Was it wrong to erase this email? I just thought it was so damaging and maybe if I explained to her she would understand better and encourage him to do it.
She seems to think it's something that only the police do.

I also saw on my husband's email that he registered with an online dating site. NO NO NO!!! This is bad, he has given up on us or at least thinks I have given up on him.

Hoping1183,

When will you be able to move and be with him for good? Also are you excited about this move to TX?

This is going to be very tough to Plan A from afar and hold him accountable.

Everytime you see something like the registering with an online dating site is going to take a hold on you.

I'm concerned you are going to make yourself sick.

That's really surprising that WH's mom freaked on the poly when she was so supportive about his needing to be faithful!

The dating site registration.... don't let it throw you or cause you to go into a panicky tailspin! It changes NOTHING. It does no good to try to figure out a wayward's mindset and why they do what they do. It could be a ploy to get you to fall in line and drop the poly. It could be a lot of things. "Why" doesn't matter as much as knowing he did it (coupled with the poly refusal) proving he is still wayward.

Deleting the email before he saw it...hmmmm, I don't know. I'm sure Indie will have some thoughts on that. I think it's good if you can make his mom understand that it is not to humiliate or get back at him - but needing to know that he is all in - on being honest and on being held accountable.

Your MIL is from a different culture, correct? You may have to really educate her on why this is necessary. But, I think you should be honest: tell her you deleted the email and that she is more than welcome to send it again once she has heard you out.

That's my 2cents anyway. After all, her opinion isn't the most important here but YOURS. Having said that, it would be great to have her support in this if you can get it.

Yeah I thought his dad was wayward when I saw the 'oh don't worry' response.

MIL was doing so well and then splat, she fell at the final hurdle.

She clearly believes in marriage but has no idea how to enforce boundaries and how to verify trust. She cannot expect you to trust blindly, you'll have a FR. I wonder if she had one herself, given her attitude.

I wouldn't delete emails. You can't control others reactions and it makes you look underhanded and controlling. Don't worry about, just take a step back and allow others to be idiots.You're the one controlling the show here and its how you behave that matters.

You can send her an email ensuring her that it is not a demand. Tell her you will not pressurise her son to do this and he is completely free to choose not to do it. Just as you have every right to refuse a marriage based on secrecy. Say it will make your heart fill with love to see him come clean, but you won't force him to.

But once you've had your say, leave her to it.

As for the dating site, conveniently your conditions contain a response to that.

SunnyD is right, its typical wayward nonsense.

Given that the donkey is acting up, use the stick email instead of the carrot. Maybe just put a bit of carrot on the end.

Can you undelete the email?

No can't undelete it but I'll stop doing that in the future, don't want to appear controlling. I just thought it was so damaging that I should erase it.
I will not engage her anymore, I've been trying to explain why it would be necessary but she's completely against it because she says it will just hurt me more, it's in the past, and WH is currently not involved in anything. Well, great, that gives me confidence in my marriage, every seems to think that there have been affairs in the past.
I don't see why they think saying "NO DON'T DO IT, YOU'LL GET HURT," would help in me trusting WH anymore. Before this refusal, I thought he hadn't had any other affairs but now I'm pretty sure he has, at least in the past.

Ahhh. Although she is completely twisted on the notion of honesty, she clearly values you as a daughter in law.

Its not that she has any objections to a polygraph as 'humiliating' at all, she simply doesn't want to lose you.

She thinks that if the poly reveals a PA, you'll dump him.She thinks the best tactic right now is to get you on board under a delusion and then cross her fingers that her son won't screw up any more.

This is all really positive in its own way.

Once WH and his family see you won't settle for that they will have to face the risks of a poly if they want to keep you.

And they want to keep you.