Oh yes, rest assured he is getting his 2X4's.

So what did you tell him was the reason you thought she chose your WH?

Do you think you have set the bar high enough for him to continue in this marrige?

Do you think he still has renter mentality?

Do you see a true repentant wayward from your WH?

No because your marriage has limped along for years now...your WH has done an awful job at caring and protecting you.

You need Plan B until he is truly serious. He sounds wayward with all of his excuses.

I wouldn't say you were dumb but maybe a little blind?

You do see the posters are concerned for you about having another FR? They don't want that for you.

They also don't see your WH as being a true repentant wayward, they still see him as wayward.

If you don't set the bar high enough he will continue to be wayward.

If you saw the women's interest in him, why couldn't he? Why does he have such weak boundaries and doesn't protect you, his BW?

Praying

I really hear what you are suggesting, however since Christmas he has done a stellar job of adhering to ALL the conditions that I set for him in order for me to attempt R.
Examples of which are

He has cancelled 2 business trips and has got alot of flack from work and has gone from being top employee to being considered 'difficult'.

He has gone on antidepressants despite being totally against the idea.

He has gone to MC with me although hedge mc was rubbish by MB standards so I called her off and I am vetting several other MCs in order to find a more MB adhering one ( the last MC was angry with me because I am against H relieving himself to porn so she was a total dumbo and I had to let her go).

He has been adhering to UA time and POJA and reading HNHN and meeting my ENs fully.

This is a serious enough incident to effect recovery but not enough for me to say he has not learned and done nothing.

And in all honesty plan B be would be for my own selfish gain because right now I have so much going on with setting up my business and dealing with family that I would gladly take a brake from marriage because juggling everything is a nightmare.

I know I have said this before and been proven wrong but this time he is different with me. He is the husband I have always wanted and needed until this happened.

I am feeling incredibly guilty and bad these days because the more I improve and work on myself ( weight loss, starting the business, looking after my hair, nails etc) the more insecure and needy he is getting. I can't stay overweight and unkept and just sit at home all day to avoid him feeling this way but there is nothing that I have said that makes him feel any better about himself, he is constantly telling me he does not deserve me and that he feels intimidated when he is out with me. It's like all the guilt for his A and bad behaviour has been catching up with him in the past 3 months. Is this normal??

Brain

I am totally here because I trust the posters advice 100million % and have NO doubt that all you guys wish for us is to have a real recovery and a happy marriage and I appreciate all this.

I am not struggling with the advice nor do I have any doubts, I am happy to strengthen my marriage.

I feel really idiotic though for not setting any consequences to broken EPs. It's such a simple idea and I just didn't see it.

I don't think he is a wayward but I do think that he has issues that he has to deal with I order to avoid becoming a wayward again.

I did not see him enjoy this encounter with this woman and although I spotted the fact she was interested In him I did not feel threatened by her as she wasn't pretty, slim, have much make up on or wearing anything interesting, she was a real plain Jane so I didn't feel threatened therefore I didnt take any extra steps to tackle the situation. From the time she joined our group till the time she plonked herself on his lap only 10 mins had passed. She sat on him for a couple of minutes then sat back in her chair and I left. It was a quick sideswipe that was not only odd but a bit shocking.

A good pont was that my H single male best friend must have also noticed this girl was interested in my H because he went out of his way to introduce me as my H wife twice as if to make a point and he was the one who engaged her in a conversation so she would get off my H and sit back Ipin her own chair. So I will need to do some more reflecting on why didn't my H notice when both me and his BF did?

As to why he didnt protect me it's simply because his self image is more important to him that me. He rather safe face than be moral I guess.

This needs to change. How can I change this and make it so that I can measure his progress on this in order to know that I am setting the bar high enough?

So you guys have talked about this incident. What is going to happen in the future? What will he do if this was to happen again?

Did you tell him what you expect the next time? Did you AO when you were discussing this with him?

What is he going to do to tighten up his boundaries? What is it that you wanted him to do

As far as the 2x4's i feel sorry for him because he can be a little childish so bare with him with this although I do think he has also earned them.

I did tell him e reason and that's because it's something he has fallen for before. He sees people at face value, all 3 EA's and PA were both as a consequence of him letting his guards down and letting trash in. He though the situation wasn't that bad because he never engaged in a conversation with the girl that sat on his lap. I told him this was not ok as he needs to be more aware of his surroundings and what's going on and analyse situations better so he won't land in harms way over and over again.
He agrees with this. I think he felt safe because I was with him therefore he couldn't do anything wrong cause cause I was there. Now he k ow's different.

As far as setting the bar high I believed that I had, I posted here in December and WH MLs help I gave him a list of requirements that he has been meeting. I dont know how else to raise this bar and if it can be raised higher but I do know that he takes it seriously because he has been panicking since Saturday about what I will do next ( ie go to pan b, leave etc) he has not left me alone for one sec and is apologising even minute of the day.

I don't think he has the renter mentality infact he has completely gone the opposite way hence why he is so insecure right now, before he couldn't care less how I looked and what I did now he is soo soo scared he's not good enough for me it's quite draining having to reassure him all the time but I do it because I want him to feel safe the same way I want to feel safe, I don't want him to be with me and feel inferior, that's not a nice feeling for anyone to have.

And to answer your final question I do see the repentance in him everyday. It's quite bittersweet, he beets himself up all the time over his failings which is something I appreciate and wanted but i don't want him to suffer either.

NB, your husband has a very wayward mentality. I guarantee you there would not have been any problem whatsoever if you had not been there. You now know how he behaves when you are not there. So yes, he is a wayward. A married man who allows women to sit on his lap, flirt with him, etc, is wayward.

My major concern here are YOUR boundaries. I am completely baffled why you allowed a woman to sit on your husband's lap? How can that be? She would not be sitting there longer than 2 seconds if that was my husband. Why did you not knock her [censored] off?

NB, just so you know, almost every WS beats himself up and demonstrates "remorse." But that doesn't mean a hill of beans if they don't practice EPs. I want you to be aware that if you were not there, this woman would have sat on his lap and it likely would have been more intense. He sure wouldn't have removed her if you weren't there any more than he would have allowed it if you were. The fact is that he allows women to come onto him and he goes to environments where women act like white trash ho's.

My suggestion is to change the environment. Start going to places where there is not drinking and carousing. Go to restaurants, sports events, shopping, dinner clubs, etc, and leave the saloons behind.

Your husbands "low self esteem" excuse is very alarming and indicates he does not take responsibility for his actions. Does he believe he has to run off to "counseling" and flap his lips for 10 years before he behaves like a married man? That is my concern.

We talk when he has a question about an MB post etc.

This is what happened since the incident step by step Brain

Girl sat on his lap
I got taxi home
He called me while I was in taxi
He yelled at me for a bit saying he felt intimidated being out with me and wanted to cancel the evening because I looked too good to be with him

I ignored the comments repeated I was disappointed and hurt by his inaction
He was drunk and was going on and on about me and my behaviour and how confident happy I was as opposed to him being insecure.

I pointed out that does not excuse his behaviour and I was disappointed etc

He then changed tact and tried to make me feel sorry for the girl because apparently she noticed I was upset and she got upset for upsetting me

I told him I couldn't give a monkeys about her, she was facing a consequence to her bad behaviour and I don't appreciate his concern over her feelings as opposed to mine.

H starts to cry and walk 8 miles home from the town centre to our house the whole time apologising and crying down the phone ( bare in mind he was drunk).

The whole time I am not angry shouting or being disrespectful I am just reiterating thee same things.

H gets home cries some more. I aks H for space as wanted to get onto MB to get advice on how to handle the situation

H then gets even more upset because he tells me MB will only tell me to leave him.

I tell H I need it and he goes off crying again.

I download on MB

H comes upstairs I tell him we need to get some sleep we will talk when we both had some rest.

Next day H thinking clearer understands what he did and owns his mistake.

I am normal and calm while waiting for mb responses,

We talk about what happened and he reverts into trying to make excuses, ie she only sat one my knees not my lap, I never spoke to her etc.

I reiterate the end result is the same regardless of the little details he broke a boundary.

H finally gets it and reverts to apologising. Then asking for cuddles etc, I feel pesterd and snap.

Back to MB see Brain post and tell H that I think it would do him good to post about it here and it would also make me feel better and more secure that he us owning his mistake. I thought it would be good for someone who is so concerned about his self image to come to MB to deal with owning his mistake after all he didn't protect me I order not to look bad I front of a stranger how about he tackle the opinions of several strangers as a consequence. It seamed rather appropriate.

H post on MB we have a talk about a response he got that got him thinking ( I think it was fro Armymama).

I'm still trying to find my direction but getting there. He's at work so I have some space. Will talk to him about the EP's and what I expect from him ( and myself) with regards to them.

So far he has done everything I have asked so here is hoping hes up for ironclad boundaries.

Will also need to figure out consequences to broken EP,s

That's my plan and events so far.

I did tell him e reason and that's because it's something he has fallen for before. He sees people at face value, all 3 EA's and PA were both as a consequence of him letting his guards down and letting trash in.

Dear lady, you cannot be that naive and gullible can you?

Three EA's and a PA (and whatever you want to call this most recent instance) and you're intent on diverting our frank, experienced assessments of his behavior and (lack of) character away from "He was his hooks in whatever body of water that's nearby!", to "Oh the poor dear gets taken advantage of by the predatory ladies out there!"
No! NO !!

It's not PC to blame the BS victim, friend, but......enough already!

He has no incentive to "take the trash out" because you haven't given him the proper reason not to continue - how did you put it? - "letting the trash in".

Well, this is your (last?) chance to hit him over the head with lessons in domestic hygiene.

Your WH is a gaslighter. Big time.

That is good bullsh** and manipulation, but where is the sincerity? He is only sorry you got mad at him. That is evidenced by all the crying and self pity. That is a way to detract from what he has done to you.


You're joking, right? He insulted you and HE cries? How does that happen?

My suggestion is for him to either get better bullcrap, because this is really pathetic, or stop acting like a whiny punk. That is disgusting to see a grown man act like that.

Hey ML

I think I was 1 sideswiped by the quickness of the girl, 2 I just didn't feel intimidated by her and 3 I was trying to act lady,I've and not spill any blood on the pub floor that's the reason I did nothing.

He does NOT go out alone with his friends,he's yet to earn this and he certainly never drinks anywhere without me. This was a very rare night out for his birthday.

We were in a pub not a club, and we were sitting in the quiet part in the garden with a close group of friends these girls were never part of that group.

Everything else that you said is pretty accurate and duly noted, this low self esteem thing is getting to me especially since its actually making him less atteactive to me ( I feel bad just for saying that but i can't help that).

The not taking responsibility is in his bleeding DNA how the heck can I change that? I don't accept his excuses nor do I entertain his conversation when he is trying to shirk responsibility. Is there anything else I can do? I thoroughly dislike people who don't take responsibility for their actions and he's so bad sometimes the kids are imitating him in this and it drives me nuts. ( for example if he bangs his leg on a table it's the tables fault for being in the way not his own clumsiness etc).

But hopefully you comprehended the blatant DISRESPECT she showed you? You ACTED intimidated by allowing her disrespect to go unchallenged.


A lady does not sit there and allow others to spit in her face, my dear. There is nothing ladylike about that. She stands up and defends herself, NB. And I can understand that maybe it happened too fast, but you need to ask yourself why you allowed this woman to treat you so disgracefully. It is bad enough that your H would not defend you, but since he WON'T defend you, that job falls to you.


ugh... That is such a turn off when a man acts so unmanly.

NG you misunderstood me there, it's TOTALLY his fault for the EA's and PA I didn't meant it wasn't.

He was asking how come he didn't see the woman's behaviour before she invaded his space and why did she choose him out of everyone to aplroach when it was evident he was taken etc ( something someone asked him on his thread).

He thinks he is naive because he has had little experience with women approaching him My response is that he needs t STOP being naive ecause being naive got him into 3 EA's and a PA. Being naive is not an excuse when he has already used it as an excuse for the 4 previous affairs ( actually being naive is never an excuse for an A). That's what I meant not that he is let off the hook cause he is a poor little naive man that can't see the boogeyman coming to wreck his home.

As a woman I am automatically programmed to rebuff unwanted attention but he believes as a man this instinct is not always presents and he needs to think more of an action plan to tackle it rather than tackle it on instinct.

It is so difficult to post here without LBing him. How can I express the things he does that turn me off him without hurting him??

ML I guess I just didn't give a monkeys about her, she was just a young drunk girl with no moral compass, I didn't find her threatening in any way she was plainly dressed with little make up and just I don't know how else to say it but plain.

Had she been a leggy gorgeous specimen I think I would have reacted differently but she literally was a nothing and a nobody and I wasn't the least bit gelous.

at times I was too busy taking my H hand away from my back to think about what to do with her, the hand he had on my back was the one she had accidentally sat on so I was creeped out by where it had just been before being on my back (yuk yuk yuk just thinking about it now).

What upset me is the lack of respect H showed to the EPs. The EPs is what I truly care about. They are the only thing that can make me feel safe with him. If he can't adhere to basic EPs what chance do I have of a good marriage. I might as well call it quits now.

Your husband is not naive at all. He is shrewd and savvy enough to be a serial cheater and a lying manipulator. A naive person doesn't concoct all the elaborate diversions he concocted to get you off his back. The reason the woman chose his lap to sit on is because he is one of those men who signal AVAILABLE! Most women know them, they are usually evident by gawking, side glances, etc.

NB, you know why he has multiple affairs. You just saw the reason. He has no boundaries around women. And this is THREE YEARS past D-Day.

huh? Who do you think has affairs with men? It is not the pretty ones with good moral compasses, but usually the dogs with poor moral compasses, so what you say makes no sense. If you don't see that as a threat, that is a miscalculation on your part.

I am concerned you don't seem to understand that you were disrespected. That says something about your own boundaries that you would allow someone to treat you so disrespectfully. And you don't seem to see it. Just because you feel you are prettier than her doesn't mean that she wasnt' a threat or that she wasn't disrespecting you.