My concern is that this was an attempt to get you to back off seeing the kids. Did she succeed? What has changed in that regard? Because if she succeeds in manipulating you to abandon the kids, you will have lost a great opportunity to demonstrate that you are the ideal choice becasue you will father those kids.

The things you did really well were reaching out to her and showing her you can be a soft place to land. The only problem I see her is that you told her you "forgive" her. That is truly a mistake that will harm your future chances. She needs to understand that forgiveness is not an entitlement and has to be something that is earned. Offering cheap forgiveness makes you look like a cheap option and only serves to HARM any potential recovery. Let me explain why. It is in her best interest, your best interest and the interest of your marriage for her to do the things to EARN your forgiveness. Forgiving her without repentence prevents recovery. It is like the person who owes $10,000. It is in that persons best interest to pay the money back.

I think you did a good job here and should continue to show yourself to be a soft place to land, but you have to stay on her about visitation and make sure your attorney files for and obtains visitation. Don't back down there.

And the next time "forgiveness" comes up, you need to make it clear you are not offering cheap forgiveness, but are willing to give her an opportunity to EARN your forgivenss. This is just too important to pass out without conditions. You need to read this: Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?

And lastly, do you see how your pursuit of the children has brought her around? You need to capitalize on that opportunity.

Her mindset is one who is in a terrible state of withdrawal. I can tell she was very addicted to the OM and is also very secretive. She had planned on quietly backing out of your life and replacing you with the OM. You have ruined her affair and it is in a free fall.

She will slowly come out of the fog, however, this is going to take longer because she still sees the OM. I am hopeful she will quit the job because of pressure there. Her reputation is ruined there. And now she can't possibly claim to have split up with you and then met up with the OM like she planned. That fantasy is dashed.

A couple of things, but the others covered it very well already:

1. She's not regretting the adultery, she's regretting getting caught and the easiest thing to do is blame you for it.

2. The affair isn't over by a long shot.

3. Next time she blames you for the fall-out, just tell her that you're sorry that her adultery is causing her so much trouble and then walk away. Don't try to argue or convince her of anything.

4. Never say you forgive her because she sure as hell hasn't done much to earn it.

5. Continue with the courts as if the conversation with her never happened.

6. Stop talking to OM. If you absolutely must, I'd limit it to "Go eff yourself and stay the hell away from my wife" and nothing more.

7. All that crap she said about being "done" before the adultery is, well, crap. There are hundreds of threads here with the exact same thing posted on them.

I meant to add a few suggested responses that you might use if the situation presents itself. The idea is to dissuade your WW of the idea that you will take responsibility for the fallout and to remind her that these are the consequences of her actions BEFORE you disengage and refuse to argue with her.


"I'm sorry that your adultery make you feel lonely and abandoned, but I'm not going to get into an argument with you about it." Walk away.



"I'm sorry that your adultery has made it difficult for you at work, but I'm not going to get into an argument with you about it." Walk away.


"I guess others don't approve of your adultery" Walk away.


"Hmm, it sounds like your adultery is really causing you problems at work." Walk away.


"Hmm, it sounds like your adultery is really causing you a lot of problems." Walk away.




"Hmm, it sounds like your adultery is really causing you a lot of problems." Walk away.


Understand that the above is just her trying to plan for you and her being great pals post-divorce...both raising the kids and happily singing kumbaya. You'll need to dissuade her of the notion that y'all will be friends and buddies post-divorce. But that you'd like to have that ideal marriage and relationship and are willing to give her the chance to fix this mess.

To add to this fantastic breakdown by NW, the next time she brings this up I would also introduce the realities of parallel parenting, and make her know that you are deadly serious about this course of action. It will shake her apathy towards her family quite a bit more. Actually, substantially more unless I'm completely idiotic. (Of course, I think I've proven that I am so that's neither here nor there)

Make her think about the reality she is truly facing, but do it a Plan A kind of way. Polite, but firm. Sympathetic, but firm. Regrettable, but firm. Then offer to make her favorite dinner for her. And if she says no thanks, do it anyway...for you.

When you do engage in this convo, be confident, but compassionate. But you do not budge. You are now in charge. It's time to lay down the law and tell HER what she has to do to fix this and earn your efforts for reconciliation, when that time is right. You may not be there yet, but you are definitely close.

You've struck a massive blow, but don't rest on your laurels just yet. You have a long way to go, but you can make this happen. One step at a time.

Follow the yellow brick MB road.

NW and TW are spot on (call yourself an idiot TW and you'll get another 2x4 )

You need to bust up any vision of a fantasy divorce where you raise the kids together as best buds.

Either she's in, or she's out in the cold.

One more thing, send her a dozen roses at work on Monday with a very short note. Nothing too cute, nothing about the affair. Simple.

Something like....

I'm here.

Smooth!

LOL, you were officially my first animated 2x4. SugarCane's non-animated one hurt worse though. Ouch!

There is a lot of help posted here. I have read it over twice and need to take some notes, study it, and then implament it.

she does not deserve a easy forgiveness pass, your right. I can not recover unless she shows or follows the MB plans as well as show's to me that she is sorry and wants to take responsability and make it better.

I am going to continue to persue the kids. This point she has softened greatly on and I think with a little work we will come to a agreement on this. Or something close. She will probably still not want them to know the truth but I wont budge on this! This is one of those things that I will not be thrown to the wolves for her, To save her dignity and keep me looking bad. You did the crime you pay the time!

I would have great hopes she will quit also but that is a tough thing right now for her because for the first time in 10+ years she has bills to pay so that weight is on her now also.

I think your right about her not regretting the affair yet she regrets being caught and exposed and until she regrets doing it and realizes it was wrong there is not much recovery going on. Very good point.
I am not letting her off easy at all. In ways about the kids I am very happy and hopefull, in the ways about her and the affair I am glad its on the rocks and the evilness is dying due to the daylight. She seemed very very distraught today, that suddenly she feels like I have been feeling. Well I dont wish that upon her or anyone but from what I know you have to go through this pain to get to the bottom and start to recover (Like a drug addict).

I need to keep showing her a soft spot from me without giving up my needs to let her think its all fixed with her not taking responsability. Kind of a complex thing I'm finding now that I think about it. Walking that razor edge.

I thank all for there feedback, ideas, support!! know I couldnt be here without you. Please keep helping me!!

I also have to thank the Good Lord as I have been praying long and hard about saving my marriage, ending the affair and for my kids to not be held back from me or lied to anylonger. And this morning out of the blue a phone call from my wife came through, and I think fairly soon after our talk today. I could be on my way to hanging out with my kids again in the next week, and with some work we may be working on our marriage if she accepts the responsability of what has happened . Thank You Lord for the posatives of today!!!!

You are doing great!! And keep in mind that you don't need her permission to tell your children the truth. Don't even think about negotiating that away! And don't let her blackmail you into hiding her crime for her.

What is the status on seeing your kids? What is her excuse for withholding them from you?

rt. It is not her words you believe...but her actions. At the end of the day nothing has really changed except that she has decided to begin to speak to you and throw you a few bones. I see this as just a change of tactic. Your WW is very manipulative. But on a positive note, the mere fact that she sees the need for a change in tactic means that you are having an impact.

Don't let up on getting the "legal" agreement for custody of the kids.

Remember: I am sorry that you might lose your job because of your affair.

I am sorry that I have to file for divorce to get custody of the kids.

I do not want this. I want my family.

I have not contacted my wife. I felt as she needs to keep working through stuff on her own while I direct her either by my actions or my words.
I am thinking of emailing or calling her to talk about the kids and to try to get or keep her moving forward on this, and keep her focused on the other at hand issue here of her having the affair instead of working on our marriage.
Until she gets to the point of taking blame for herself I think I need to keep applying some pressure? Leting her know I have changed my thoughts and ways to give her the attention she craves if she can do her part.
The bottom line is she craves tons of attention and I didnt give her enough. Just the reason, not a excuse!

Would you agree on sending her email or phone calls on these issues?
Some general ideas of what should and shouldnt be said on my part?

You have been told this.

No convincing, pleading, pressuring, anything from you other than letting her know that you are willing to work on it if she meets the conditions.

You can't force her or reason her into anything.

You can't fix her. You go on with your life the way it should be lived. She has to decide to join you.

I would not even speak of it to her anymore. Just the mantra "I am willing to do what I need to do"

After all, what else are you gonna say that she doesn't know.

Times two.

I would continue with this course of action.

Need more input.

Wife came over tonight while I was in my office. I had no idea she was coming over I had left my cell phone upstairs and had my headphones on that allow me to listen to the TV from the family room. Any way I had no idea of anything other than I could hear the dog barking so I finally got up to look at what he was barking at.

I went outside and Wife and kids were in the car. I was not sure what to think. I had sent her a email earlier saying I wanted to see the kids, I missed them, and when could I see them soon. this wasnt right.

I had all kinds of mixed emotions because I didnt know what was going on, she hadnt come over unanounced in months.
They all came in and she said you wanted to talk to them so lets do this so you can see why they are uneasy of what is going on and what you have done.

I started by asking what they had problems with or what had they been told. Our middle girl said I dont like that you yelled at mom or made her feel bad, you said she was lying and had a boyfriend when mom said she didnt it was just a friend. I said well did you know mom did have a boyfriend and she was lying to you and me and everyone all along and that is what has made me depressed when all this started. She asked her mom if that was right and she tried to make some little excuses but then she had to come clean. Daughter asked about email, why did you hack her email, I said I didnt hack it I checked it one time and found out that this was going on. But mom denied it all along until 2 weeks ago and did you know mom kept checking my emails all along even after I changed the passwords she hacked it. She asked mom is that true she said I only checked it here and there, I said come on tell the truth you were on it daily in order for you to get my info, she finally fessed up she was on it alot.

My son is visably shaken he doesnt know what to think. Mom has given him all half truths. He stated a few things mom told him and I gave him the full truth and he looked at her for the truth. And for the most part she had to any up full truth with me there.
Oldest daughter didnt have much to say. She had listened to it all so far and said I am good with whatever. I'm more concerned with myself. She was shaken but is trying not to take a opinion is my guess.

Eventually my wife said what I did to Dad, having a affair is the most painful, mean thing you can do to someone and I was wrong so take this for a lesson. Dont ever do this to anyone.
I was shocked! I was thinking did she just admit she was wrong and in front of the kids tell the truth. Holy crxx.

We talked for a while longer and I asked the kids to think about the fact that I didnt tell anyone any lies. that all this was caused by lies. They had no reason to be scared or mad at me.
My daughter said you could have got mom fired from work by telling people from her job if they believed you. I said what part of what I told her boss was not true. She asked her mom was it true. She said well yes. Kids were not sure now what to think as they had been lied to from mom and now they were hearing the full truth from me and her.

After a hour or so she said well its getting late why dont you guys get in the car and we'll hed home. Go out to the car and I'll see you in a minute.

Now she started with you win. I said win what. She said I'm lonely, sad, depressed, you scared om away he wont even talk, txt, or look at me, I've tried to talk to him and he said leave me alone, my family wont believe me, I have no friends that believe me, I get to cry myself to sleep every night, She said do you realize I am looking at being alone for years now, you can go date someone today but I cant with the kids who will want me. She said you win you have ruined me.
I said I have no intention of ruining you or making you suffer, I want good things for you.
Alternated between you win speech to What will it take for you to heal, I dont want you to hurt I want you to heal. What is it you want from me. I have given you everything except my body.
She would alternate that and every once in a while ask do you want me to go to counseling with you? I didnt reply to her when she asked what I wanted or if I want her to go to counseling. She also asked what will it take for you to leave my friends, coworkers, OM, family members alone and not contact them?
I said I have not contacted them first off since the exposure second off I wont commit to not contact anyone that I need to so they can hear the truth or wants to talk to me.
Before she left she wanted to know if I would go to counseling with her. I said sure if I get to pick where we are going. (MB) She then said what do I get if we do this. I said I'm not negotiating anything to go to counseling.
She said we'll talk later and she left.

Now some of the things that came out of her mouth reminded me of some things I have heard on the MB radio from Dr. H, So either she is listening to the radio show or she is reading the website here and there I'm pretty darn sure. This is good as she is sounding a little more normal.

My take is wife is on a downward spiral, she is sad, she sees how she was wrong but still is in withdrawal because I ruined her thing.
She told me she wanted more attention, didnt think I even loved her, she tried to tell me but I didnt even acknowledge there was a problem, she tried but got lonely and then started to pull away and then now she can see that I pulled back from her when she pulled back from me. (this is part of what I think she learned from MB) Then she found OM who would pay attention to him.

I feel she is really all mixed up. She longs for attention he gave her. She knows he cut her off. She knows the kids are all mixed up. She sees I'm doing much better than I was months ago. She may be afraid of me denying her, yet she doesnt know if she wants me.

How should I proceed. I feel like I would love to get her into counseling with Dr. H or Steve seperataly, me and her. Either they can help us or no one can (at least earthly person) (God is the ultimate guidance counselor). I just dont want to persue her and let her say see I knew you were going to make me do something.
I am seeing things go the right direction, what's the recomendations to keep this thing going.
MMM I read your post but I feel she is starting to reach out and needs to be lead to someone who can help us.

I think all in all you did good.

My post is not contrary to what you have said.

You have the plan and you have conditions. Hold fast to them.

She has to come along, if she does, then things should start improving. In fact, if you stick to the plan, it is almost guaranteed.

The plan is NC, which means one of them has to leave the job, and MB, in all its various facets. NC, extraordinary precautions, Policy of joint agreement, meeting emotional needs and no lovebusters, etc.

It is not a pick and choose, one from column A and two from column B type plan.

That is why she needs to buy in and come along, and you do not need to cajole, plead or reason her there.

She has to do it herself.

You stay strong, truthful, and honorable, giving her a place that she can turn to. She sees it, even if she won't admit it.

Sounds like her fantasy is about crumbled down. Now it depends on how stubborn she is.

You have reached out. You have given her the plan. You have the plan. You need to lead her to it. Not drag her.

She is in withdrawal. It will not end if they stay in contact of any form. The ending of this contact is Number One on your list now. There is no Number Two, none.

Do not fool yourself that anything will do any good if they continue to work together, text, talk, even professionally. No need to waste your time.