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Jason,
You need to start with "Surviving an Affair" before anything else. The other things will help you greatly as well - but the starting point is Surviving an Affair.
It is CRUCIAL as it is the starting point to ending the past and putting things in place that affair proof your marriage. THEN you go on to the other books and workbooks.
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The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide. I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail. The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy. This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted. An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance. Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place. Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details. Best wishes, Willard F. Harley, Jr.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Get the Surviving an Affair book and just read the His Needs Her Needs by yourself. Count up how much time you and your wife spend together. You need to be spending as much time as possible meeting those emotional needs (ENs) that build romantic love: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.htmlhttp://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3350_attn.htmlHow much time to do you spend together? It's not a trick question  but you'll need to actually spend productive time with each other. Write it out on a calender, put the kids to bed earlier, get a babysitter, whatever you have to do.
Last edited by Northwood8900; 03/14/12 10:22 AM.
Me (BH)
FWW
Married 2000, DS 8, DD 6, DD 2
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How much time to do you spend together? It's not a trick question but you'll need to actually spend productive time with each other. Write it out on a calender, put the kids to bed earlier, get a babysitter, whatever you have to do. AGree with Northwood. This is a critical step in recovery. You have all these kids and you desperately need to make time for your marriage. That means scheduling 15 hours per week of undivided attention - MOSTLY OUT OF THE HOME. I am concerned about her lifestyle, though. Do you still work the opposite shifts that made it possible for her to have this affair?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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ok surviving the affair got it...
BH 34
FWW 24
Daughters 4, 2, 1 yo
D-Day 5-29-11
NC 5-29-11
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Can you do the online program that will provide you with support from the Harleys - or phone counseling? It is certainly money MUCH better spent than what you paid that therapist for crap advice!
My H and I did the "MB at home" program and have been successful. However, I think it is only because of my background in psychology and communications (as well as our many years together) that we have been able to be self-disciplined enough to stick to it without that 3rd party accountability. I think most people would truly benefit from the personal counseling.
You start with Surviving an Affair because it teaches you some basics about safeguarding your relationship and making sure the affair(s) have ended correctly. Your wife needs to put Extraordinary Precautions in place to ensure that your marriage is no longer at risk! You expose the affair where needed to make sure that you have support that you need and that wife is held accountable to being faithful. You also ensure your wife is 100% committed to being transparent - and willing to do WHATEVER it takes to make your marriage.
After you have shored up the fence around your marriage, you then begin the work on rebuilding the romantic love that is needed to make your marriage better than ever. It is NOT good enough to just "survive" this! You have to make your relationship something so extraordinary that it allows you to heal and overcomes the problems of the past. It CAN be done. You WILL have that passion back...IF you follow the plan, EXACTLY.
You begin rebuilding by committing 20 hours a week (or more in your case) of undivided attention time with each other. You need to put this in place right away - before reading any book. This is not a time to discuss the past or fret over kids or bills... but to recover your love.
Through the MB program you learn what makes each other happy and also what makes each other unhappy. You start with those first - the lovebusters - because taking those out of the equation will greatly help your positive feelings towards each other. Then, you work on filling each other's love banks back up.
Now, my H and I did it this way:
Surviving an Affair
Lovebusters
His Needs Her Needs
(coupled with CDs and workbooks with questionnaires needed)
We also had the 5 Steps to Romantic Love book, but had read it previously (while H was still wayward) so we didn't read that again.
The vets can fill you in more as to where that one fits in with the rest. If I understand it correctly, it's more of a condensed version of Lovebusters and His Needs Her Needs. ????
Anyway, I think you would GREATLY benefit from some personal phone counseling. As Gamma mentioned - what you have experienced is absolutely HORRID. My H's affair was bad enough - being long distance (traveled to see her a couple of times out of state and communicated via phone/computer). You have to deal with it having been right there - in front of kids and all.
What the heck was that therapist thinking - to not need to get rid of triggers???? GEESH!!!!!!!!!
(Shaking my head)
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Now that you're calmer, I suggest you go back to the beginning of this thread and read each of the responses you've gotten. The beginning of the path you need is there. The first book you need is Surviving and Affair. You should also go back and re-read the articles here about infidelity. You'll get more out of them this time around. Sad but true, but very few therapists can give advice that comes anywhere close to what you'll get here every day of the week for free. You're in the right place, and you're going to make it through this. If you both follow this plan, your marriage will make it through, as well, a whole new marriage where you both love each other and are in love. 1. No Contact - you both need to change all previous information. Emails, phone numbers, any way you could be reached. Exposure is a part of this - exposing to the family and friends of all involved parties, as well as all children ages 4 and above. 2. Extraordinary Precautions - This includes, but is not limited to, sharing all passwords with each other, full accountability for time and money, changing jobs, and any other condition that allowed the A to take place. Because of the level of your WW's betrayal, not only of you but her oath as a medical practitioner, she will need much higher accountability for you to feel safe. (And that, BTW, is part of why you're still struggling so much now. You haven't felt safe, so you're still at the same level of trauma as when you first found out. The first year is really bad anyway, but when EP's haven't been in place, you're still back at Day 1 of recovery.) 3. Remove Triggers - There are some triggers you can't remove, but any that you can change need to go. As I was going through AJ's stuff, getting rid of the things I knew OW had touched, it occurred to me that if I got rid of everything she touched, that would include AJ. That thought helped me balance between getting rid of all triggers possible, without going overboard. You're likely to be triggered for some time when your WW has her period, and that's something you can't get rid of. "Sorry honey, it's a hysterectomy, or the highway." Nope, won't work. But getting rid of the SUV and the house? Good steps. Get rid of the truck, too, as soon as you're able. That will be another good step. I also recommend moving to a much different area, hundreds of miles from where you are now. 4. Rebuild Love - The main reason Mel said that the books you just ordered aren't the right ones for you yet, is that there's no sense putting water in the reservoir till the dam is fixed. NC and EP's prevent your hard work from going to waste, and they need to be put in place now, before either of you will make progress restoring your love. You can get them done very quickly - it's not like I'm saying wait weeks before you start this part. Get the NC and EP's nailed down in the next day or two, and then you can go to work on the rest. Make sure you're spending enough time together. Dr. H recommends 15 hours a week of Undivided Attention (UA) as a maintenance dose. For marriages in crisis, the recommendation is 20+ hours a week. He says it's not that people don't have the time. The hours are there, and if they don't use them for each other, they will use them for something far less important. Avoid Lovebusters. Both of you will have times you're tempted to lash out. Don't do it. It's no use making deposits in each other's Love Banks if you're going to turn right around and take them out again. I hope your WW will be willing to post here, as well. We can help her put up boundaries between her and members of the opposite sex, and make the changes she would need to do for you to recover successfully with her. Welcome to MB! It's the best place to be under these circumstances.
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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No, she told me to quit my job, she said she wanted to do that for me. And then she went to work at a nursing home on dayshift, while I take care of our 3 small children.
She calls everyday from the work number to check in, and before she leaves work too.
We mutually decided we will never work nightshift ever again.
BH 34
FWW 24
Daughters 4, 2, 1 yo
D-Day 5-29-11
NC 5-29-11
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We've done the NC stuff, and some of the EP stuff (I didn't realize we were lacking there, and that's why I still felt unsafe), and I thank you and Melody and the other for helping me get this straight. I know I was doing a lot of talking, but I needed to vent, for people to hear my story and understand. I've been feeling so alone. I'm ready to listen, and start this MB plan. I don't think I can afford the phone counseling stuff right now, but I'll make it a priority as soon as I can. And a lot of poster's instincts were right...we are SEVERELY limited on our UA hours, and it's driving me crazy. I will make it priority.
BH 34
FWW 24
Daughters 4, 2, 1 yo
D-Day 5-29-11
NC 5-29-11
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Does your wife have problems with depression?
There seem to be some serious issues at play here. Sex in front of your children? That�s really bad. The whole blood thing is disgusting as well.
There may be a lot of things here that may not be resolvable without massive amounts of therapy on HER end, not yours.
Will you address my previous questions?
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It's perfectly fine to vent, Jason. We all need to at times. It's much better to vent here than to lovebust your wife. Sometimes people vent though and then don't take the advice because they feel somewhat better after getting it all out. Know that the real solution here is in the doing - not the venting. You AREN'T alone. Vent, but use the tools you are given to get to work!
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Does your wife have problems with depression?
There seem to be some serious issues at play here. Sex in front of your children? That�s really bad. The whole blood thing is disgusting as well.
There may be a lot of things here that may not be resolvable without massive amounts of therapy on HER end, not yours.
Will you address my previous questions? Good point: wife may truly need some depression help.
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I'm ready to listen, and start this MB plan. Good man! GEt the book SAA and Five Steps to Romantic Love and you can start there. If you are very disciplined, you can do this on your own. You don't need counseling. In the meantime, you can read up on the policy of undivided attention: The Policy of Undivided Attention Caring for Children Means Caring for Each Other And you can listen to Dr Harley every week day on the radio station. He will answer any email questions you send him. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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"Is she still in contact with these men? Who has the affair been exposed to? What is she doing to win your trust back? What is her attitude towards winning you back?
Are you sure that all contact with these men has ended?"
No contact...the main one is in prison until oct 2012. The affair was exposed to everyone. She was going to therapy to win my trust back, being transparent. Her attitude for winning me back fluctuates between being extremely insecure and doing mostly all the right things.
I've told her over and over, I don't feel like you are bending over backwards for me, I feel like I've been doing all the work.
I told her I need to see fire and determination from her CONVINCE ME. She keeps saying I'm working on it...
Yes, she has problems with depression, she's currently on AD
BH 34
FWW 24
Daughters 4, 2, 1 yo
D-Day 5-29-11
NC 5-29-11
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Jason, like Sunny said venting becomes a problem if you don't take the advice we give. I also think that venting only serves to whip you up into a frenzy because it takes your focus off of solutions.
Very much agree that you should check into anti-depressants. Can you get into see your doctor?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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"Is she still in contact with these men? Who has the affair been exposed to? What is she doing to win your trust back? What is her attitude towards winning you back?
Are you sure that all contact with these men has ended?"
No contact...the main one is in prison until oct 2012. The affair was exposed to everyone. She was going to therapy to win my trust back, being transparent. Her attitude for winning me back fluctuates between being extremely insecure and doing mostly all the right things.
I've told her over and over, I don't feel like you are bending over backwards for me, I feel like I've been doing all the work.
I told her I need to see fire and determination from her CONVINCE ME. She keeps saying I'm working on it...
Yes, she has problems with depression, she's currently on AD A quick tip: Use the "Quote" button to quote a post when replying to it. It makes it easier to see what you are replying to.
Me (BH)
FWW
Married 2000, DS 8, DD 6, DD 2
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Jason, like Sunny said venting becomes a problem if you don't take the advice we give. I also think that venting only serves to whip you up into a frenzy because it takes your focus off of solutions.
Very much agree that you should check into anti-depressants. Can you get into see your doctor? Good point, Mel! Sometimes venting is destructive rather than constructive. All depends on the type of vent maybe. ???  Good to know wife is on ADs. I agree that some may be in order for you too as well, Jason.
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I agree, I want to put the advice into action. For some reason I'm feeling very averted to going on anti-depressants. I can't get to a doctor until the end of the month.
BH 34
FWW 24
Daughters 4, 2, 1 yo
D-Day 5-29-11
NC 5-29-11
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Am I giving off the vibe that I'm not taking the advice offered?
If so, it's far from the case, I'm just emotional.
BH 34
FWW 24
Daughters 4, 2, 1 yo
D-Day 5-29-11
NC 5-29-11
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I agree, I want to put the advice into action. For some reason I'm feeling very averted to going on anti-depressants. I can't get to a doctor until the end of the month. Why is that? I certainly don't think they are a cure all and I would never recommend them long term except for someone truly suffering from non-circumstantial depression. But, they can help you get your bearing while figuring things out. Having said that, ADs can have side effects: loss of libido, etc... that can cause issues as well - issues that aren't healthy for marriage. I had to play around with several before I found one I was OK with. I've been off them now for about 9 months. But you know, sometimes just having a plan can lessen your depression and anxiety a lot. I know it did for me. Having a plan felt like having some control over my destiny rather than everything just being outside of my control.
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