My worry here is that a) the A is still active, b) she will get involved again with another A. Too log a plan A normalises everything for the WW. She thinks oh this is great BH finally gets it - I just want to be his friend blah blah,.....this further justifies why she can move on with another A.

GJM has done a great Plan A now he needs to leave that good taste in her mouth and see how she does on her own while he can finally get some peace

As Reading has already posted. DrH, HIMSELF, suggested that GJM stay in Plan A as long as HE possibly can. It's not FOREVER.

And, if the A is still on, he should still be in Plan A. Plan A is done when there is an active A.

GJM isn't in Plan Doormat, he's in Plan fight for my wife(Plan A). A BH is often advised to stay in Plan A.

GJM, how is the stick of Plan A coming? Does your WW know that if she isn't on board, you won't be friends with her after a D?

And this should be the LAST thing on your list for recovery. Have you been reading Dr. H's articles on this site? Unconditional love is poison to a marriage.

Yes, she knows that I don't want to be friends. I'll stick with my Plan A...I'm doing well. I understand about going to Plan B, but it's not my time yet.

And so if PLAN B!!! It follows Plan A! Both plans are used in conjunction with each other. And bear in mind these Plans are not solely designed to save a M, they are designed to deal with the agony of being a BS.



I never suggested he was. His Plan A has been great and has now served its purpose. His WW is either active in the A or looking at starting another. He has done all he can. Now is the time to give her the consequences/reality of her situation


This is of utmost importance she needs to know that you will NEVER be friends with her after the D

Have you told her you will NEVER be friends. I bet she didn't even hear you say this and if she did would probably think "ya right, sure he won't". She needs to be crystal clear on this. The currect situation (if you're not going to Plan B) will NOT NEVER continue after D.

But bear in mind if you want any chance of rebuilding your M Plan B needs to come ASAP. As I said I fear you've already left t too late.

All the best

Thank you MFL,
I've already discussed this with Dr Harley and I'm following what he has outlined for me. In total he wants me to Plan A/B for two years. He's suggested that 6 months is the norm for a man to Plan A. If I can Plan A longer, do it, but the combination of the two is 2 years.

You are contradicting yourself here. You said that Plan B is to save the BS from torment. And that Plan B isn't supposed to be used to draw the WS back to the marriage, and now you say that he has left it too long already and should use it to save his marriage. Huh?

GJM isn't suffering from LB at an all time low. He isn't in Plan Doormat. He's in PLAN A. Even if his WW were to continue the A, or if she were to start a new one, it wouldn't be because he didn't go into Plan B. He can't control HER actions. He is trying to draw her back to their marriage. He is showing her what her life could be like, IN a marriage with HIM.

I am utterly confused by your sudden appearance and push for Plan B. I have been in Plan B for more than 2 years, I am an ADVOCATE for Plan B. I don't see it's need in this sitch, yet.

Just as he advised Jon in SAA.

G, isn't your divorce hearing coming up pretty soon? I truly do admire your ability to stay in Plan A for as long as you have (especially after all you've been through), but Plan A in your case seems to be incomplete without a taste of Plan B. She has no clue what life will be like without you. No clue. Why? Because you have been there so far for her, with no real repercussions for her betrayal. She thinks you're gonna be there for her forever no matter what she does. Being so close to your hearing. I think it's time to shake her out of her apathetic way of thinking. Right now, she has nothing to lose. I guess I'm looking at it from a standpoint kinda/sorta that Plan B can be part of the stick of Plan A if done properly. I think your situation warrants this. She needs to realize that she stands to lose PLENTY. JMO

I'm not sure about any of this, but the fact that your court date is looming is disconcerting at best. Plan B has to have time to work it's magic. You don't have a lot of time to work with here. I'm just afraid, for you, that you are Plan A'ing yourself straight to divorce court, and I certainly don't want to see that happen. You've put too much effort and love into this to lose it for the wrong reasons.

Just a thought

Yay someone gets it - thanks Tiger.

The longer you stay in PLAN A the harder it will be for you in Plan B and the more you will suffer. Remember you're addicted to her too! Best for you to start making arrangements for Plan B now. And in certain cases Plan B has the added bonus of making the Wayward realise just how much they miss you...

Plan B doesn't work any magic. Plan B isn't to be entered into to wake up your WS. That isn't what the intent of PLan B is.

Tiger, MFIL, can you point to ANY of DrH's words where he suggests to PLan B to wake up your WS? Can you show me anywhere that DrH suggests that a BS go into Plan B so their WS can have a taste of what life is like without their BS? No, because there isn't any.

While it is true that a WS WILL see what life will be like without the BS during Plan B, it isn't a reason to go into Plan B.

Just because someone else has the same OPINION as YOU doesn't mean that it is MB, at all.

Remember, GJM talked to DR HARLEY, the creator of this web site, and the man who has helped THOUSANDS of people recover their marriages. I know which horse I would bet on.

BTW, Plan B is difficult no matter when it is done. The BS will have feelings of withdrawal. That won't change depending on how long they have PLan A'd

Okay, maybe I'm missing something. But aren't the MB concepts a step by step process?

He's followed Plan A to the letter, and to a further extent I might add. He's done better than I could have ever done. He's done his Plan A job, and done it well.

I don't think I suggested Plan B should be a wake up call. I DO think Dr Harley DID! Isn't that part of the process? When Plan A doesn't show her what she's missing, then Plan B does when you snatch it away?

I must be an idiot, because I thought this was the entire concept of MB Plan A versus Plan B.

Plan A is about showing the WS a willingness to meet ENs should the WS end the A, for life, and commit to a marriage with the BS.

Plan B is meant to remove the BS from the drama of the A.

Dr Harley suggested that GJM stay IN PLAN A as long as possible, for a time up to 2 years, including Plan B.

He's not having a huge LB drain, and he's not close to an emotional breakdown because of his Plan A. If he were, I would be pushing him to Plan B.

SAA By Dr. Harley, Page 79 Paragraph 3 �This is where Plan B comes in. If the wayward spouse will not totally separate from the lover, then plan B separates the betrayed spouse �and the needs he or she met�from the wayward spouse. It is a taste of what is to come if divorce actually takes place.�
Page 82 Paragraph 1 �Plan B was designed to help Sue discover that all of her n eeds could not be met by Greg. �


Doesn't always work though. Sometimes a WS will be gone for years and not wake up. Shrug. Maybe Dr. Harley sees more potential for GJM to stay in Plan A long term.

Scotland is right, and of course, it is Dr Harley who has told GJM to stay in Plan A as long as he can. For a long time he said about 6 months about men, but he has really changed that in recent months because he has more success by staying in Plan A longer.

And here is his reasoning. The entire purpose of Plan B is not to teach the WS a lesson but to protect the emotions of the BS. Many men can go on for a long time in Plan A and continue to compete. They usually WIN, too, because the odds are completely in their favor.

And the beauty of staying in Plan A longer is because if the WW doesn't end her affair and commit to the marriage, the BH usually ends up HATING her and has no problems leaving the marriage and moving to divorce. Of course, if she doesn't end the affair, there was no hope anyway.
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Harley's theory is that as long as the BH can stand it, he stands to gain the MOST by staying in Plan A because he will either win her back or he will grow to hate her.

His strategy about Plan B for MEN has really evolved over the years due to his experience and he thinks this is the best. It still always comes back to this: can you stand it?

With women, he is very adamant that they don't drag out Plan A longer than 4 weeks.

I don't think anyone disagrees here. In fact, I think I have praised G for his efforts. Many times if I recall correctly.

Very true, but, I do believe that is a position that is held more firm for the BW than a BH. Keep in mind, we're talking about different dynamics here. The battle of the sexes so to speak.

Scotty, now you're pretty much making my point for me. Dr. Harley suggests 6 months of Plan A for a BH, then Plan B from there for 2 years total. G has done his 6 months of Plan A and then some.

Neither am I, I am just suggesting that he's getting too close to his court date for Plan B to have any effect to save his marriage.

That's all

There are alot of nuances to Plan B that need to be understood. While the purpose is solely to protect the mental health of the BS, it can have the added benefit of knocking a WS off the fence.

Harley explains in the Infidelity chapter in HNHN, for example, that Plan B can have the effect of showing the WS that the OP can't possibly meet all of her needs. [an OP is a selfish rat, after all] The OP is usually meeting 1-2 top intimate EN's while the BS is meeting 3-4 minor ones. It quickly becomes apparent that the OP can't keep up when the BS is removed from the situation. It CAN have that effect, but there are no guarantees.

Harley has said he has seen greater success when a BH holds out longer because he is in a better position to COMPETE and WIN against the OP. They often DO win because the OP can't really compete after a while. That is his theory.