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GJM, IF you can handle it, keep up the Plan A. A number of previous posts have talked about Dr H's examples of men Plan A'ing as long a they can because with a WW, it normally takes longer for them to come around. I'm not sure if Dr H has written it in any of his literature, but in my opinion, generally, when a woman becomes wayward, it's because she's checked out of the marriage and has convinced herself her she'll NEVER be in love with her H again.
To change that opinion takes a long time. Obviously there are examples of a WW immediately or very shortly after exposure recommitting to the marriage, but that's not the typical case. It takes a while for 1) The WW to see that maybe the H isn't the demon she's protrayed him to be to justify her A and 2) Then takes a while for her to begin to have her LB filled to a point where she see's there may be a future with him. Of course, this is only possible if the A is dead.
I plan A'd for 7 months during an active A (At SH's advise). That 7 month point was where I couldn't plan A any longer. I then exposed to my kids (SH had advised not exposing to my kids before then due to the circumstances of my situation) and prepared to go straight to Plan D. No plan B for me. The very next day, my W committed to trying to make the marriage work after the kids made sure she knew her relationship with them would be very limited, if any at all if she did't try.
But even though the A ended the day after I exposed to the kids, it still took a good 3 - 4 months more of Plan A before my W's LB balance began to grow. Probably another couple months after that before that LB balance tipped in my favor.
In my humble opinion, dealing with WW's and WH's are two different animals which require changes in the approach to make reconciliation possible. And that's why I worked with SH. He gave me advise that is contrary to some advise I've seen on these boards based on MY SITUATION and my personality.
Guess my point is, I think GJM, you should continue to Plan A as long as you can take it. And if possible, everyone here should directly work with the Harley's. They're the experts and will tailor your plan based on what they feel would work best given the situation.
Hope this helps.
H4U.
Me-BH 51 FWW-51
Three sons, S28 from first marriage, S23 and S19
A started Mar 07
D-day 9-4-07
NC 4-08
Recovered Nicely.
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GJM,
I second Hopeforus's post on the value in working with SH. It is more than worth every $. The point by Hopeforus on the Harleys giving sometimes contrary advice I have also noted in my situation. The big-picture strategy is the same, but sometimes the tactics have variations and the timing when these are applied can be different too.
Me: BH
Marriage: 25 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011
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Plan B with no intention of reconciling is just plain unfair to the children if there are children involved. The whole point of it is to protect the love you have left. Is there something your not telling us Mel....???
I understand not having much of anything to do with them but not being able to grin and bear it for a few family occasions etc is just plain bitter IMO Not knowing the circumstances of her first divorce, I'd say it's her prerogative on how she choses to interact with her ex.
Last edited by Northwood8900; 03/16/12 08:08 AM.
Me (BH)
FWW
Married 2000, DS 8, DD 6, DD 2
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For example, I have been in Plan B with my XH for 12 years now. And I fully intend to keep it that way! But I have absolutely no plans to ever reconcile with him. I am happily remarried. Plan B with no intention of reconciling is just plain unfair to the children if there are children involved. The whole point of it is to protect the love you have left. Is there something your not telling us Mel....??? I understand not having much of anything to do with them but not being able to grin and bear it for a few family occasions etc is just plain bitter IMO It's unfair to the children to be around someone who causes you stress and anger. How in the world does that help a kid for his parent to be around someone who incites a murderous rage? That is insane. So in order to REDUCE bitterness, it only makes sense to stay away from him. In 12 years I have only had to see him once at a family function. The point of Plan B is to protect the BS from emotional trauma and it serves that purpose regardless of whether one intends to reconcile. It is better for parents to stay away from each other in most cases.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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For example, I have been in Plan B with my XH for 12 years now. And I fully intend to keep it that way! But I have absolutely no plans to ever reconcile with him. I am happily remarried. Plan B with no intention of reconciling is just plain unfair to the children if there are children involved. The whole point of it is to protect the love you have left. Is there something your not telling us Mel....??? I understand not having much of anything to do with them but not being able to grin and bear it for a few family occasions etc is just plain bitter IMO I think you have a very unrealistic expectation, and I think that you are mistaken about what is best for the children. I have been Plan B'ing my wayward mother for over twenty years now. It was necessary for my mental health. There have only been a handful of breaks in Plan B, and I think there's only been one in the last ten years. And her breakdown was caused by not realizing that she should have Plan B'ed her wayward mother. Every time she tried to break off contact, some do-gooder soul would tell her that she should maintain a relationship with her mother no matter what and she would go back to her and resume contact and enter a downward spiral. I won't let that happen to me. What's best for the children is to never see or hear from the wayward parent again. Unfortunately that often can't be implemented under our legal system, but you'd be surprised how often it becomes possible for the child to assert their will, especially as they get older, and how often the wayward parent simply doesn't care.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I'm going to jump in here and try to put everything together for everyone. We all agree that the MB concepts can be very successful if followed properly. The intentions here are to help recover a marriage by implementing the tools that are given by Dr H.
MFL is advocating Plan B because he stayed in his Plan A too long. He has already stated this. I don't know you're situation or the things you did daily to Plan A. I don't know how much interaction you had with your W. Every situation can differ slightly. What we all know is that the WS has a script that they follow and they are no different than any other WS that has been mentioned on this site.
That being said, ML is absolutely spot on with what she has quoted from Dr H. He has even told me those exact words. There is no arguing that. To reiterate, Dr H recommends that a BH go no more than 6 months in Plan A if it becomes too much to handle. So if a BH is having a hard time implementing Plan A, Dr H says to stick it out as long as possible. In hearing that, to me it means do what you need to do to get to the six month mark and then go Plan B. If a BH can Plan A longer than six months, then do it.
When I first came back to this site, I struggled immensely. I had a hard time with exposure and my emotions were all over the place. As time went on and with the help of so many members here, I was able to put together a strong Plan A. It has taken a lot of time and effort to get where I am right now. I have learned to adapt to my environment. I guess that's one of the many great things about being a Marine. I have been 2x4d a lot. I stopped complaining as much and put my marching boots on and executed each plan methodically. As with any plan, I've had to make adjustments, but my efforts continue.
I feel great about where I'm at. I've started gaining my weight back. My W has told me I look happier and more attractive. She even said I looked younger. I can't remember the last time I love busted. I never get angry, argumentative, sad or show any negative emotion when my W is around me. I am James Bond's double. When members were first telling to be him I thought they were talking crazy. I thought to myself that there was no way I could be JB with the way I'm feeling. Those feelings subsided and I took control.
ML told me to contact MB Radio and I was able to get through a couple of times. Dr H gave me great advice. I told him I thought I could go longer than 6 months in Plan A and he said to do it. He said that if I could handle it and it didn't cause me any medical conditions or for me to hate my W, I had the best shot at saving my marriage. If there was still an active A, I would have to compete with the OM in order to get her back. Plan B wouldn't allow me to do that. The purpose would be to protect my feeling for my W in the event the A was over and she wanted to recover the marriage. In order to execute a Plan B, a BS must have had a great Plan A. That's where I am. I have spent a great amount of time with my W. We have been spending weekends together and every evening at dinner and after dinner. We have many conversations about topics other than the kids.
My divorce was supposed to be final May 20th. Thankfully I received a letter from the court saying that we have a status conference August 30th. August 29th is our anniversary. It will be a difficult time for me I'm sure. I've seen some signs of remorse this week. Her telling me that she went home and cried because of what she has done to me meant a lot. Telling me that she is learning to forgive herself so that she can ask me to forgive her also means a lot. My W has also said that she knows that no one else will ever love her and support her the way I do and she thanked me for that. She has stated that she doesn't feel like she deserves to be loved and is trying to deal with that. Before anyone says anything, I already understand that none of what she says means anything unless followed up by actions. I don't know if it will be followed up by actions or not. I don't expect it to be. I don't hold on to any of her words unless there is action involved. Don't worry, I'm not regressing. What I do is Plan A, Plan A, Plan A...nothing more, nothing less. I've made it clear that I will not be friends with my W if the D finalizes.
I now have full custody of DS 12. It's been a week so far and I think that will also weigh on my W. I don't think it will be long before DS9 follows suit. Things are moving at a snails pace and I feel like I'm dragging my W to the finish line, but I have no regrets about anything I've done to this point. I will continue to push as long as I can. I don't ask everyone to agree with me, but to support what Dr H has told me to do. After all, it's his concepts. If things were to end right now, I can hold my head high and know that I did everything I could possibly do to save my marriage and still hold on to the love we once shared. What you said about plan A is correct. What you plan B was correct as far as protecting the BS. However after a well executed plan A followed by a 100% dark NC in plan B has caused many an affair to end. Simply the BH is no longer meeting the WS needs. The WW then sees that the OM is only willing to meet one or two of her needs and the OM is leaving all her other needs unmet. This has caused many a WW to wake up and realize that their BH is willing to meet all their needs and plan A has shown that their BH can meet all those needs. WW ends affair and recovery starts.
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I'm a little late to the party but I wanted to mention a couple of other concepts that play into whether Plan A or Plan B is right.
When a BH Plan A's his wife, he keeps her in the state of conflict. She will have conflict with BH, because his kindness makes her feel guilty. She will have conflict with OM, because of the contrast of behavior between BH/OM. I think most marriages survive and recover when a BH executes a great Plan A -- because being in that state of conflict is crazy-making to a WW.
When/If a BH goes to Plan B - his wife HAPPILY goes into the state of withdrawal -- and that is the most dangerous state for a marriage. Yes, she will still have those comparisons floating in her mind -- but WW will compartmentalize and actually be relieved to not be dealing with BH.
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Lexxxy,
That last sentence is exactly why I'm constantly in Plan A. Getting to the point where my W says she doesn't know if she deserves to be loved and knowing I'm the one that loves and cares for her and she's trying to forgive herself so she can ask for my forgiveness; it is because of my Plan A that she has even evaluated these things. Without it, I'm pretty sure she would compartmentalize everything.
She's nowhere near the state of defogging. She is realizing things in a slow and painful way. I see it in her face. She's now dealing with medical issues that started shortly after all of this mess. Are they related? I tend to think so, but I'm not a doctor. When I found out, I was there. I pushed my way in and said I'm going to the doctor appointment with you. I'll be here to get you through this. Like I said, it's slow and seems like I'm being evaluated over the long term. I'm ok with that. I know I'm meeting most of her ENs and fill her LB daily. Plan A has made all of this possible.
Me: BH 36 Her: WW 34 Kids: D 14, S 12, S 9 DDay 1-6/2009 DDay 2-9/2011 DDay 3-11/2011 Filed for D 10/2011-Papers Served 11/2011 Divorce final May 24, 2012 My Story
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I think most marriages survive and recover when a BH executes a great Plan A...
I believe your statement is incorrect. Based on stories here, please list the recent (two years?) cases in which Plan A brought a WW who weathered and resisted the EXPOSURE action back to the marriage.
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My Plan A worked....
ONLY after I finally did it correctly (RE: Exposed).
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If I remember correctly, HFD, your Plan A dragged on for 2?, 3? months UNTIL you exposed. That was when FWW's house came crashing down around her, almost immediately. Would that be a fair assessment?
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Yes, NG, very fair, painfully so.
I needed more time earlier to complete my post, as my point was EXACTLY that:
I only applied the 'carrot' of Plan A, not the 'stick'...which really is an INcomplete Plan A.
ONLY when I was FULLY implementing Plan A (RE: Exposure) did Plan A work!
(which I still regret waiting those 3 months and am still apologetic to all of you vets for...)
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So what brings you back here today Vladie - what is your agenda? Hi Bigk, Agenda is just to warn of the danger of Plan A'ing while WW is moved out. Being careful not to 'normalise' things for the WW. The exact same thing I might add that you used to warn me about. And regarding Plan Bing well into divorce - I guess its a personal choice. I still don't 'like' my exWW but as I am completely 'over' her and very happy with my life I can be quite civil and even do the odd family/school events etc things for the sake of my Son. He is a lot happier to see his parents can actually talk and communicate. But I guess it may be a question of how better you are maybe not, but I'm not bitter and thankfully it doesn't stress my out!
Plan D June 08
Me FBS 36
W 38
Married 13/1/09
The best is yet to come, with or without your WS
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Agenda is just to warn of the danger of Plan A'ing while WW is moved out. Don't you think we should follow Dr. Harley's direction on this?
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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A reminder to posters to stick to Marriage Builders concepts. The purpose of the forum is to discuss Dr. Harley's views and concepts, not our own personal philosophies. If you are going to post to those in need, we expect you to stick to Marriage Builders. Otherwise, please refrain from posting.
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I plan A'd for 7 months during an active A (At SH's advise). That 7 month point was where I couldn't plan A any longer. Wow truly inspirational! I then exposed to my kids (SH had advised not exposing to my kids before then due to the circumstances of my situation) Again here this advise would not be issued on the boards! You would have been labelled a coward and not willing to stand up for your M. I'm so glad you worked with Steve! I'm curious GJM have you worked with Dr Harley or did you just have a few minutes on the radio with him?
Plan D June 08
Me FBS 36
W 38
Married 13/1/09
The best is yet to come, with or without your WS
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GJM, you haven't updated this thread since 16 March. How are you doing giving WW a steady diet of Plan A?
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GJM, you haven't updated this thread since 16 March. How are you doing giving WW a steady diet of Plan A? NG, I'm doing well. My Wife and I are still spending weekends together and having evening dinners during the week. I'm on the pistol range this week. I noticed that two targets over is the investigating officer for my case. I gave him a greeting and didn't really say much to him while we were shooting. As we were leaving for the day he asked how I was doing and if I had heard anything about the case. I told him I hadn't and it seemed to be taking a long time. He said that the OM accepted Non-Judicial Punishment on Thurs or Friday. I wasn't sure if he had already received his punishment or not so I asked my First Sergeant if she heard anything. She said the OM got 45 days restriction and 45 days Extra Police Duties as part of a plea agreement to his court martial. He also lost his promotion to the next rank. His career is over. Now I have to make sure the No contact order is still in place. Oh and on top of that, the OM now has permanent orders to the other base. He won't be coming back to my base.
Me: BH 36 Her: WW 34 Kids: D 14, S 12, S 9 DDay 1-6/2009 DDay 2-9/2011 DDay 3-11/2011 Filed for D 10/2011-Papers Served 11/2011 Divorce final May 24, 2012 My Story
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I have nothing to advise, except to say that imagining OM was the person on the target would likely improve your scores! ![[Linked Image from planetsmilies.net]](http://planetsmilies.net/violent-smiley-1478.gif)
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Let's just say I kept it in the black 
Me: BH 36 Her: WW 34 Kids: D 14, S 12, S 9 DDay 1-6/2009 DDay 2-9/2011 DDay 3-11/2011 Filed for D 10/2011-Papers Served 11/2011 Divorce final May 24, 2012 My Story
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