You are right. We should all be ashamed. I wonder if your husband would be willing to spring for a polygraph to clear your good name? It is the LEAST he can do to repay you for this insult to your honor. Just think, if people here smell an affair, so do folks in your every day lives, so passing a polygraph would shut everyone up real quick!

How about taking a polygraph to put us all in our place?

You mean aside from the two hours a day that you go to the gym, right?

How will you support yourself after the separation? Are you ok with only having your kids 50% of the time?

Of course I can, and have always been that way. He always knows where I am, always knows what I'm doing, where I'm going, what I'm spending. We have never kept secrets, sure there have been times I've looked into things, such as my Figure comp etc, without him knowing, but only because I get such negative reactions, I like to have answers for all his questions. I don't sneak around and never have. I am the one who came to him with my problems within themarriage and I was also the one pushing for us to make things work.

SuzieQ you obviously missed the part in my post when I said I go to the gym when my kids ARE IN BED AT NIGHT! And they're with their dad, hardly constitutes as 'leaving them'. Yet my husband plays golf twice a week and is gone from his kids up to 10 hrs, as well as the hours he works. I am training for a specific event coming up in the coming months, like most athletes, it requires dedication and commitment, and I make sure that time is spent after my kids have gone to bed. And I am home with them every single day and on weekend, never away from them. Ever.

Melody Lane - I've obiously given this some thought. I will go back to work part time, I am studying via correspondance at the moment so the plan is to start my own personal training business regardless if I'm with my husband or not, this way I can work the hours I want. My son will be starting school next year and my parents and husbands parents are close by to help if needed. The government is actually pretty good here in Australia for single parents. I'm not saying it won't be hard, but it's doable and manageable.

Would you two be willing to spend 20 hours of UA time together?

Time means:
- before 21:00
- no bickering/arguments allowed during this time
- spend as much as possible on the imtimate needs:
conversation, sexual fulfillment, affection,etc
- preferrably spend a considerable amount of time out of the
house
- do fun things together (what did you do when you fell in love)

And you and your husband should try to avoid love busters. Obviously it is important for you that you husband does NOT offer unasked for advice, however well meant.

You can always consider the nice policies of the australian government afterwards. Also, plan your workout scedule at a gym where they have child care, so you can do it during the day and not take away time with your husband.

Also, the husband should stop golfing altogether for the next couple of months, because his family is falling apart and he is golfing. Maybe the two of you can golf together after that.

Soooo, if the two of you start being nice to one another (even if you do not feel like it in the beginning) and spend 20 hours of good quality time as pictured above together, I would bet you will come to see the one you fell in love with again. It may take some time, but hey, divorcing takes up a lot of time also.

The biggest trap right now is, that you do not want to spend time with your spouse, because it is uncomfortable and painful and boring and annoying you want to flee away from each other.
That will not change, unless, you have tried the above for 2 weeks - 3 months, depending on how much energy you invest and how good you get in avoiding love busters. But you will see change coming.

Do not give up yet. You have not deserved it. First try to find the one you love, again, under all of the mess you piled up.

God bless you in your efforts,

Happyheart


P.S.
Being a single parent may seem like a good option to you now, because it takes away some of the hassle and pain. But if you ever experienced how lonely you can be if your child had done something great and you do not really have anyone to share it with... Noone will likely love your children like your spouse. Your arguments will also not get better once you separate. You may have to fight your ex every step of the way over simple things like hobbies, overnight stays with grandparents, vacation etc. Please think of that before NOT making the effort.
Last but not least, you will save thousands and thousands of dollars not divorcing.

Great advice happyheart but it is the same thing I have been trying to get going for the last few weeks. Unfortunatley punky81 will not do these things. "It is over" for her. She will never love me again and frankly does not even like me. There is absolutley, categorically no way she will spend time on the intimate needs and I hope she replies to this with a reason why. She seems to think we have to BE in love to fulfill the intimate ENs. Whereas I think that is backwards and to fall in love we have to pursue these intimate needs first no matter how uncomfortable at the outset. I really hope she listens to your advice but I know she will not.

I believe the past is the past and should be left there. We have a real chance at a happy marriage but she is not allowing it because she constantly relives the negative moments from the past, whilst neglecting the positive.

Punky and nb,

Figure comps are not a need.Comp training and dieting makes one irritable, less able to focus on life and family (yes, I know, I have done it myself). That is really not an appropriate goal when one is planning to separate their family. Put your kids first. Golfing, is not a need. Get a babysitter and golf together (or go to the gym together, whatever), but leading separate lives has left you where? Right here.

You guys have children, including very young ones, you guys at least owe it to them to give this a proper shot. The day you decided to get married and have these children is the day you decided to put your family and children first, especially if you are considering breaking the family up. Putting your marriage first IS putting your children first.

Punky, I guess you are new to bb/figure/bikini whatever your division. DO keep in mind that competitions contribute to excessive independent behaviours and in my 8 years (!) of BB/figure, I have witnessed numerous divorces as a result of putting it before their families. This is NOT the hobby for someone whose family is on the verge of collapse.

As others have said, complete transparency.

No, I didn't miss your point. I would never leave my children every night for two hours at 6:30 at night for working out, period. Not to mention, I am in a workout group with about 15 other ladies, mostly moms, very devoted for fitness and none of them would do that either.

Besides, if you are that devoted a mom as you are making yourself seem, why aren't you more interested in saving your M? I am not nearly as devoted as you are (I am not a SAHM, I do leave my children's side, etc) but it KILLS me to be putting my children through separation/divorce. It KILLS me that they are not with me all the time and there will be birthdays and holidays when I won't have them with me.

You have a H who is posting here and willing to do some work and you have a wealth of knowledge on how to have a romantic and passionate M at your fingertips and you are unwilling to work on it?? Sorry, doesn't make ANY sense to me at all. Unless there is something that has shifted to a higher priority than what would be best for your children and family...

I agree with SusieQ.

Punky, you seem to have gone from one extreme to the other. You've gone from 100% mom to now rebelling from it and seeking an independent life of your own. This is what happens when you don't strive for balance between motherhood, marriage, and yourself.

Of course, if you spend 100% of your time dedicated to your children and your marriage/yourself is put on the wayside, you will start to idolize something else to assert your independence. However, one extreme to another is never the answer.

It's about balance. Those are two hours each night that you could be spending trying to work through MB materials (which your husband is now WILLING to do) and keep your family together. Look, there comes a point where many men (and perhaps nb will agree) simply don't BELIEVE it when their wives complain until it's late. And that's not until they realize that their wife is not nagging but actually serious about their complaints, that it is too late.

He knows now. He wants to make the effort. NOW he finally "gets it". You owe it to your vows and family to at least try now that you have a willing partner.

A comp is simply a distraction from what is important to your life... it is all consuming, even for a single girl. A married woman with kids whose marriage is in trouble, you might as well just put the nail in the coffin and that's not fair to your family.

Okay. We now know you are willing to do what it takes to be open and transparent to your husband, which will prevent an affair and also serve to help make deposits in your account in his Love Bank.

So, next up: what are your complaints about the marriage? By the way, this works better if you keep your thread and he keeps his.

A lot of men fail on their own to resolve the complaints their wives have on the marriage. We can help with that. Can you produce a list of your complaints?

There's a form here that may help you make sure you cover everything:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4506_mpa.html

punky and nb1712,

Something you should both know about counseling is that most counselors really suck. Most of them do not know how to save marriages, do not know how to resolve the problems that are in marriage. Many of them focus on trying to train people to get used to living with the problems. Eventually all the husband or wife can think of is getting away from the problems which are never getting better!

Dr. Harley's approach focuses on changing the behaviors that affect our spouse, which resolves the problems and changes the marriage from miserable to happy. A lot of what he says is completely contradictory to what a lot of marriage counselors say. BUT, most of what they say is not research proven at all, and Dr. Harley has been collecting data on people who have followed his methods for decades. People who follow the plan recover the romantic love in their marriage. People who don't, don't.

punky, what do you think of Dr. Harley's Policy of Joint Agreement?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html


Do you think you could agree to live this way, if your husband would also agree to it?

You guys could turn this around if you would pick common recreational activities and "escape" together, rather than individually.

I am flattered if you think, that I have elegantly lined out Dr. Harleys advice here.
Please take a good look at �our post again though. You can learn a lot by just reading how you relate to things.

You basically say: Great advice BUT > here is the reason she won't do it - it is her fault<
This may be true or it may only be 20% true but there are a few important notions in your answer:

1
The past is in the past and should be left there

That is what you say, but your post is littered with things she failed to do in the past weeks etc. That's neither interesting nor helpful.

2
You complain she will categorically not meet intimate needs. I assume you mean sex, affection and intimate conversation.

My friend, she will neither have sex with you nor tell you her innermost feelings, because you are not her friend. She does not even like you. Would you want to have sex with darth vader? What will she gain from it? She will feel absolutely used and probably horrible during and some time afterward. Forget having this emotional need met at this point.

As to intimate conversation, why would she like to talk to you if she expects you to point out where she is wrong and could have done better? Have you ever just listened to her and not talked back? Please read up on the friends of good conversation. Use conversation to get to know better, to find out how she thinks. Not to tell her your opinion on things.
The most intimate need she will maybe let you meet could be a back scratching (not leading to anything else) of a foot massage. You have to start small here.

3
You are thinking for her (she will never... she won't... she will basically never change for the better???) You are telling us what YOU think is in her head and I would consider it a disrespectful judgement.

Have you had any chances to meed her EN's in the past week(s)? It is expected that she does not want to spend time with you because she is not in love with you (and possibly comparing you to someone else). You can probably turn your marriage around by becoming a better husband using the programm. You have to get this jump-started. Call plan A and get her on board later. So stop looking for negatives in her and keep working the plan yourself.

Good luck, Happyheart

Sometimes it helps to converse with a professional counselor together and separately. They can listen and proffer suggestions if the two of you are willing to try to work out your troubles. No one can modify another person or change their mind. A counselor can also assist you and your wife learns about your alternatives and habits to live independently if it comes to that. You need to commune with each other. Both of you have issues and thoughts concerning what might have gone wrong and ideas about how some things can or can't be resolved. If counseling is not wanted or does not help, or if she has already decided the marriage is over, there is nothing you can do but let her go. You both need to try to keep the divorce from getting nasty. Good luck.

Spoken like a true counsellor!

Hooray HappyHeart! Great post.

NB1712, you are receiving great advice here.

Praying for you and Punky.

Punky, I can attest that my first marriage was very painful and all I could think about was how to escape the pain. I did it the wrong way: affair. Now that I'm married a 2nd time, I can see that this marriage has just as many challenges. Not fun. Believe me, you'll wish you were working on your marriage with the father of your children someday, not some step-dad (meaning no disrespect to my H, it's just that I've found the "glue" harder to produce in my 2nd marriage)

I am sorry it took so long for NB to step up and want to work on your marriage. I'm sorry it took the threat of separation. But he's ready now.

NB, she's on her way out and needs you to prove you care about HER - not only about yourself, which is what you've BEEN doing. Please do it. You may have to "prime the pump" as Dr. Harley says: offer unconditional love & care for a time without expecting anything in return. I think it was yesterday's radio program where he talked about that for a long time. You might want to check it out. (Radio archive Segments #03718 and #03719 from 3.26.12)

A word of warning, NB: Punky will likely enter the state of conflict when she comes out of withdrawal. She'll probably start telling you everything that's been upsetting her over the years. This is actually a good sign: it means she is sharing her deepest feelings with you. If you can stay patient and caring, she will enter the stage of intimacy, and THEN you will have a shot at winning her back.

You can do it. You have to be strong, but you can do it.

Well she has decided to end it. No thought of trying to fix it or any willingness to make it work. Zhamila I have done nothing but try to be the unselfish husband and expect nothing in return for the last few weeks as I realised I was pressuing her to much but she is not interested. I can do nothing as I watch my life spin out of control simply because she will not allow me a chance to be her husband. Now she says we will separate (not legally) and live in the same house for the kids but sleep in separate bedrooms and not be a married couple in any way. Can I do that? For my kids I would do anything. Do I want that? No. I want my wife back to the person she used to be. So I will stay for the kids, try to avoid the love busters and ignore my own emotional needs.....for a time