That Kim chick is hilarious. unintentionally. LOL

That is just how I imagine my WH and OW would get along, should they ever be foollish enough to shack up.

Is it just me, or was his family a lot harder on him than hers and probably the only reason they made it to the altar was because she felt validated enough to pull thing on her own shoulders!? Even if he did smoke!?

She mentioned she was a lot younger- which made me think of OW in our sitch .

I found it interesting that she described her ex as wonderful and caring, but intellectually inferior to her big bad self.

She puts the lu in deluded.

I found the huge pause when Dr H asked what she didn't like about her ex rather telling. It was like she hadn't even considered - she had just followed the rainbow in search of greener grass! I thought her eventual answer sounded a bit made up. What a shame her family didn't lean on her more!

How clever was Dr H in just asking that one question and then dropping it! I bet that q tortured her all night.....

I hope it did. I think she realized she got the booby prize.

I am really proud of her current husband's
kids.

Bwahahaha....poor, poor Kim.

His not seeing his kids is "causing a lot of pain"

for who?

Really, the AFFAIR and betrayel and destruction of the family is what caused a lot of pain (the the betrayed spouses and all the kids, even the ones who had therapy and spend time with wayward and betrayed folks.

I love that the Harleys do not show disrespectful judgements of people. They are great role models.

typical wayward mentality. karma sure is biyatch, isnt it? pretty interesting that Dr. H pointed out that in the case of wayward spouses the kids usually have a tendency to blame the man even w/ WW's and things are mitigated somewhat for the WW whereas WH's who get the full load of blame for themselves. would love to know whatever happened to this wonderful couple.

and then just listening to Dr. H ask about her xBH was priceless, especially when he inquired whether her xBH had remarried. and as indie mentioned above, Kim just couldnt find one thing she didnt really like about her xBH. it's typical. the kind of person the wayward is apparently looking for is not really what they wanted in the end. was it worth it? was it really?

In those clips, Kim blames the fighting on her OM-H's problems with his children and "holding his feelings inside", blah blah blah, but what Dr Harley tries to tell her is that this is typical for affairages (renters).

He explains to her in the clip: "95% of all affairs die a natural death. Only 5% make it to marriage. Of those that become married, 70% get divorced and those 30% that remain married, generally are like your marriage. In other words, you are likely to keep fighting for the rest of your lives together unless we do something really radical."

This topic is very relevant to my situation as my children are being subjected to STBX and OW4 awful fighting (yelling, swearing, crying) A LOT. The kids' counselor has recommended that OW4 not be involved in any visitations for a period of time and STBX has agreed to anger management. I doubt it will help.

As my MB friend told me when I expressed my shock at STBX's abusive sounding relationship with OW4 (he's supposedly madly in love with her after all), this is typical for a renter's relationship. Dr Harley explains more about this in the cohabitation article.



http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8110_cohabitation.html

Sorry to ramble. It still surprises me how bang on Dr Harley is with this stuff.

And that something radical is to learn how to follow POJA. You just have to laugh because Kim clearly DOES NOT like the concept of POJA when Dr H tries to explain it to her.

Not surprising because that's exactly what Dr Harley says about people who have affairs...
Affairages

Gee, I wonder why she doesn't like it...

Maybe because she's a selfish b@$*@...

But
But
But

They are SCHMOOPIES !!!!

If her affair-H would just do what she says (because her opinion is the right one), theirs would be a happy affairage. If Dr H only understood how right Kim's opinion is, he would not ask her to POJA.

I wanted to emphasize this part so others really GET IT. In Susie's marriage to her WS, they NEVER fought like that. But horrible fights with big scenes are the NORM in his affair.

Great post, Susie!

Hhahahaha. Kinda hard to whisper sweet nothings into your "soulmate's" ear, when nothing they do or say is to your liking and they are screaming like a banshee about how you aren't so hot either! How odd that someone you picked up while doped off your azz isn't suitable. Funny that.




Easy to see why isnt it. You've got the affair goggles on, you pick a smart, sexy, hard-done-by, honest-really, loves-you-so-much person who just UNDERSTANDS you so well, without words even! No pesky converations needed! An instant microwave meal of a relationship!

Then you wake up one cold morning and there's just a hungover cheater next to you, who is nothing like the person you wanted to be with at all. If that isnt bad enough they are giving you the same dead-eyed stare back.

They scream because they feel CHEATED out of the image they bought into. But they cheated themselves. It would be funny if it didnt hurt so many.

Yes, that is correct, that type of fighting/swearing etc did not occur in our M.

What was most baffling to me...STBX knows MB concepts!! We have read the books and did the online program together for heaven's sakes!

I guess Dr Harley explains this as well in the clip (paraphrasing):

"The illusion is the two of you are perfect for each other and that you love each other unconditionally, that you are so right for each other that this relationship won't require much effort."

My prediction: Now that reality is setting in that this relationship IS going to require work, he will blame all the relationship troubles on OW4 (like Kim, no way this has anything to do with him) and move on to OW5.

It is a renter's mentality with a vengance.

When you steal and get away with it ... you get accustomed to getting what you want and it doesn't matter whose expense it is at because as an adulterer they are entitled.

Their relationship is built on lies, deceit, but mostly the backs of the families they so gracefully threw away.

Kim's ego is the size of Texas ... "I did things better that my OM/H ... I take control ... I do what is necessary."

What she fails to realize is she does it at the expense of others. Now she is demanding her OM/H do things for her and she doesn't care about the cost ... it is "I want I want I want"

I love how Dr. Harley says to her "Just quick arguing ... you are going to let him do what he wants to do. You cannot control him."

But Kim cannot relinquish control because in "Reality" her life is out of control.

Did you notice how long it took her to tell Joyce what she didn't like about her "Ex-husband"? She couldn't name one thing for several seconds.

She has to control everything around her because her life is out of control. Until she stops and realizes she is the problem ... her life will continue to spiral down the path to Hell.

Happy Marriage Kim ... Wonder if she is divorced today.

Susie is so dead on correct. In recovery, and dealing with the issues- and learning about the soulmate schmoopie relationship my spouse was in with OW? It was volatile, and dramatic- big rescues needed, standing together against the cold cruel world, and awful horrible fights.

It was so weird- watching him dissect his "perfect " relationship as he defogged and became sane again. He is thoroughly embarrassed by his behavior and by things he said and did regarding the affair.

Our relationship ? Is nothing like theirs was. We have always been calm. I am calm. No big dramatic soap opera here.

My SIL? Has been married for 15 years to her affair partner. They are a typical pairing and exactly what Harley describes. They are all about being soulmates. And they fight like crazy people, my SIL has become a thing alcoholic , and my BIL? Has benefited for sexual harassment at work and continues to cheat.

They are awesome. And by awesome, I mean they totally suck.

Here is a newer clip on affairages.
Radio clip on trust in an affairage

Loved the bit where Dr H explains the nature of the affair and what it really is: an illusion!!!
Reminds me of my husband telling me how OW is his soulmate, how they never seem to run out of subjects to talk about, how great she looks and how all other men are in love with her ( and how lucky he is).
My poor, pathetic, delusional and desorientated man.

Thank you for those clips.

A previous caller had emailed in a follow up. What do you call a marriage that comes out of an affair, according to people on the Marriage Builders forum the term "Affairage" has been suggested as a term to differentiate the difference between between a marriage where the couple meets the proper way versus the couple the marries the lover.

Radio Clip