Greetings,

I used to post here years ago when I was coping with an affair. I rebuilt myself & stayed single for a long time.

In 2009 I reconnected with someone that I have known since childhood. We both had bad relationships which is how we started talking. We talked online mostly, for a while. To make a long story short, we discovered a lot of compatibility & began falling in love, true love. We both found in each other everything that we wanted & had been missing from our previous relationships.

A few months later, her birth control failed & we became pregnant. We weren't ready as we were living apart & still dating. I moved her in with me so that I could be involved with the pregnancy & support her all of the way. There was worry & stress as she lost all of her previous pregnancies during her marriage.

About halfway through the pregnancy, she began to bleed. The doctor opted not to perform a cervical cerclage & we lost our daughter. This was a traumatic experience for the both of us, especially for her.

There was a lack of connectivity & making love that came & went, which I can understand. We then bought a fixer-upper & moved into it at the end of last summer, did what work we could, & dealt with the winter months. About months ago, we were sitting on the couch, cuddled together, while my sons were playing. We had a fire going in the fire place. She looked at me & said that she loved our life. We got engaged & all seemed well.

I started having job difficulty due to the economy & got laid off from different jobs. She take on more responsibility with my sons that she wasn't used to, due to earlier hours. She began to feel some resentment. My older son is nearing puberty & has been somewhat difficult. I was also all over the place due to different jobs, one being on second shift so I wasn't able to go to bed with her.

Last week she told me that she was unhappy & that she thought that we were done. I asked her why she didn't communicate problems with me. She told me that she had changed since we lost our daughter. I pleaded with her to give it another shot after all we have been through. She was afraid that we couldn't fix it but that she still loved me. I told her that because we loved each other that we had to try & she agreed.

Since then we have been improving the house due to warmer weather. She also had some medication changes & is supposed to meet with a different doctor because of mental & emotional side effects. Someone that she dated in the past & who she hadn't seen came into the area & she asked if I minded if they meet for dinner to catch up. She assured me that we were ok & that she was still in love with me. I reluctantly agreed because I trust her.

Yesterday she used my cell phone with her email. Later on I picked up my phone & there were emails on the screen from him of a sexual nature. I felt immense panic. I talked to her about it. It was emotional & she vowed that only the emails/texts happened. She said she was ashamed & that something was wrong with her.

I told that if she was anyone else that I would be gone but that I loved her, forgave her & promised that I would do everything in my power to get us through this if she did the same. I also said that the OM didn't respect her or our relationship. We embraced & she promised me that she would try to never hurt me on purpose or dishonor our relationship ever again. She blocked the OM from her facebook & gmail accounts. SHe promised never to answer him if he tried to reach her in any other way.

I felt sick & cold & she said that she hoped that my forgiveness is real & that I will never throw it in her face. I told her that I truly forgave her but that I now had an open wound in my heart that needed to heal. After that it was all of the sudden like it was months ago. More hugging, kissing, cuddling.

This morning we had breakfast together & I asked about how she was more spiritual in her past & if she missed it. She said that she did & I listened to her intently while she spoke of it for a while. She was tearing up. I told her that we should visit a Unitarian Church & seek out our spirituality together & meet new friends. She talked about getting married one day & how even though it was bad what she did, it created the atmosphere that we needed so that she would talk to me about any problems she was having & thanked me for being understanding & forgiving & that she wanted to spend the rest of our lives together. I was tearing up with joy. We embraced again. I said "baby we are going to be ok" & she said "yes we are!". We then did yard work together & have been more touchy-feely like we used to.

I still have pangs since it was only yesterday. But she seems as committed as I do. We have never had a heated argument, enjoy many, many of the same things, & want to build a future together.

With all of that said, I know that I will have moments of anxiety & memories of this betrayal. Any advice or support is greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for reading my long winded post!

Welcome back, Dimmu.

How long is it since you were last here? You will probably find that much has changed, and that when people post here they are encouraged to follow Dr Harley's programme properly - which didn't seem to be what happened years ago. I would say that everybody who posts here regularly today does so to give specific MB advice.

Something that Dr Harley is not supportive of is living together instead of making the commitment of marriage. Why didn't you get married when you found out that she was pregnant?

As you can see, being half in but not fully committed gave your fiancee the right to become involved with another man. This is not adultery because you were not married, but if you look at dating and being engaged as being the suitability test for marriage, your fiancee failed the test. Do you feel confident that she is demonstrating a suitability for marriage now?

Dimmu,

Sorry you're here. I'm not a vet here, or by any means an expert, but your situation is eerily similar to mine.

I discovered my wife was having a FB/text EA back in October. My reaction was very similar to yours...what scares me is that your wife's reaction was also very similar to my WWs.

It scares me because my wife was not having an EA, it was a full blown PA and continued for months until OM moved away. I only found out about it because I became suspicious again and started checking her phone and FB account.

I'm sorry to say this dude, and I really hope that I'm wrong, but I doubt that it never got physical. I would recommend upping your snooping efforts, as you are sure to have driven the A underground. Hopefully some of the vets will be along shortly to give you some better advice about what to do. Again, sorry you're here.

Welcome back, Dimmu. Sorry you've had to return under these circumstances.

What snooping have you done to ensure that the affair is not continuing? Did you change her cell phone number? Are you aware that blocked phone numbers and FB friends can be unblocked in a heartbeat?

What have you done to confirm she is telling the truth? Please tell me you've done more than just taking her word for it. You'd be taking the word of a wayward, and they lie.

Having said that: the two of you aren't married. Either one of you can date whomever you wish. It's not adultery. I understand that you feel the sting of a promise broken, but your relationship is set up with no commitment. Neither of you have made a vow of fidelity to the other. No vows have been broken, here. You're dating.

I can also pretty much promise you that her relationship with her other boyfriend was physical. I'm sorry.

You need to look at the bigger picture while you're dealing with all of this: your children. She is babysitting them while you work. I am concerned that she may seize an opportunity to be with her other boyfriend in such a way that your children could be in danger. Please be careful for their sake.

This discovery happened yesterday with the emails. I have her passwords & can check her cell phone if I had to. She said that my trust is important & that she will be an open book.

I of course am insecure now & wondered about whether or not it was physical. They went out one night. He travels so he usually isn't in the area. The context of the emails that I was able to read indicate what she said, that he wanted to get physical but that she wouldn't do it (because she said that she isn't a whore). I wasn't able to read them all because she deleted them.

I did tell her that if there was another betrayal, I was done & out of her life for good.

My philosophy & desire is that we discover what led to this, make the necessary changes & work to build a stronger relationship than what we previously had.

She doesn't watch the children right now. While I am struggling to find work, the work that I do is 1st shift as is her job.

I understand everyone's concerns. I have to fight for my relationship.

But that is subject to change, right? You are still struggling to find work. And in your first post you said
Your girlfriend's first interest is herself, not your children. I'm just saying to be aware. I would suggest you pick up the book "Buyers Renters and Freeloaders" written by Dr. Harley. It may be helpful for you.

What conditions/EPs are you going to ask she meets?

I am concerned that she is using the loss of your daughter as an explanation. And more concerned that you seem to be accepting that.

That's utter nonsense. You got engaged after that. Grief does not lead to developing poor boundaries with OM either, obviously.

It doesn't make sense for her to delete some and keep some. She did that for an incriminating reason.

You want to avoid going so far that when another betrayal happens, it is after you are married.

You must be worried about the same things that we are, otherwise you would not have posted here.

Remember that it is very difficult for someone who had come into the lives of your children later, to have to discipline pubertal children. That is not fair to her or to the children.

Polygraph test time. It smells bad that she pulled away from you. WW/WGF don't do this unless they have a replacement lined up. Erasing those messages before you could read them says she got rid of the evidence.

She didn't delete some & keep others. They were already in the trash bin when I checked them on the computer. She perma-deleted them later. She was already confronted with the discovery.

She also told me earlier that she told her best friend from before we got together that she went to dinner with OM. This friend HATES OM from an incident in the past where he treated my fiance badly but she had blocked it out.

I know that many users on here are jaded. Affairs are ALWAYS BAD. Not all affairs are the same. My fiance was bottling things up. The loss of our baby caused her to change to a certain degree. Everything going on prior to OM being in the area for one job was overwhelming her. She was feeling suffocated & OM seemed like an escape.

I know that she & I have work to do to rebuild our relationship. I am posting on these forums for advice from those who discovered affairs & problems early on & what successful strategies they used for talking with their significant other in ways where they open up & not withdraw. Strategies for rekindling love that was once felt deep by both. I am seeking strategies for coping with the random panic feelings & for rebuilding trust & security. Strategies for success in this endeavor because I love her that much...

I am posting on these forums for advice from those who discovered affairs & problems early on & what successful strategies they used for talking with their significant other in ways where they open up & not withdraw. Strategies for rekindling love that was once felt deep by both. I am seeking strategies for coping with the random panic feelings & for rebuilding trust & security. Strategies for success in this endeavor because I love her that much...

Down at the bottom of this note, in the epilogue, is a link to my personal story thread. Find the piece I posted on 04 July 2011. It may give you some pointers on what you might do from here out.

Thank you so much, NeverGuessed!

And yet you didn't love her enough to marry her.

maritalbliss, we are engaged. I have been laid off FOUR times since November. That is one of the reasons why we aren't married. We wanted to plan things rather than just elope. Your personal attack on me lacks merit.

Imagine how a woman with dreams for a wedding & reception can be skewed by the fact that we may not be able to afford it. Imagine the thoughts that would come after those thoughts. How are we going to pay our bills? How are we going to have a future? Fix this fixer-upper that we bought? She has a career & goes to school. She fell in love with a man with two children & he keeps getting laid off after we bought a house that we need to put some more money into!

I am not making excuses for her. I am putting myself in her shoes. I am listening to her as we cope with this. I am trying to understand how this happened so that it doesn't happen again.

Before we lost our daughter, we were in a state of BLISS.

She has NEVER had a successful pregnancy.

She has stepmom syndrome. She has done a lot for my children but they do not reciprocate. She is learning why that is but was not expecting it. I have been working with her on this. I have told her that they have a mother. That I am with her for HER & US, not to replace their mother.

She was feeling overwhelmed, scared, stressed & miserable. She was vulnerable & a classic, low-life scumbag player of an OM took advantage of it. I know that she is part to blame though he was playing on their past.

Whether or not they had a physical excursion is pointless. Something happened with words of a sexual nature. This site is called "Marriage Builders." The main focus is surviving an affair & hopefully salvaging the relationship & creating a stronger one that prevents future infidelity from happening.

Also, my views on marriage are different as I am a heathen & not a Christian. She & I are married, regardless of whether or not we paid for a piece of paper & a ceremony. Did we want a public display? Yes. Does she still talk about it despite our issues? Yes. Do I want to make it "official?" Yes, if we can figure this out, work through the problem, & prevent her from feeling this way again. She will not have a second chance. I will be in immense pain if it happens again, I will set her free, I will heal & focus on myself & live my life as I always have.

My previous time on here displayed me as a crushed & distraught man. I have grown since then, literally rebuilding myself as well as my thought process. I am also more mature in experience & age. I understand that NO ONE is infallible. If the right conditions are there, cause & effect will take hold. All relationships are governed by an ebb & flow.

With that said, I KNEW that something was wrong. I was watching as the signs were there. The evidence manifested itself as it ALWAYS does. I have been through this before. We live in a land of abject amoral thought & action. If it happens again, I will know. I will not resort to paranoia, detective style snooping to see if they had sex or secretly contact each other over the great distance that they have between them. If people on here advocate such actions, why do they even want to be with the person who betrayed them?

I am here to figure out how to fix what went wrong & return us to bliss. I am here to BUILD a good marriage where our EN are met & that we are happy together. The fact that she & I are still under the same roof shows that she loves me. I am working at a fraction of her earning capability & if I was not here, her situation financially would not be that adversely affected.

Dimmu, be very clear: I am not attacking you. What I am saying is intended to help you going forward. This is immature and unrealistic. If they can't afford all the bells and whistles of a big ceremony, mature people don't have one. Moving in together is not a replacement for marriage just because you can't afford a public wedding and reception. There are alternatives. These conditions still exist, whether you married in a civil service or in a church. They exist now, while you are living together. I'm not sure how you are tying your financial condition together with your marital condition. Yes, you were dating and looking forward to marriage at some point in the future. Yes. It is. I'm not sure where you're going with this. My marriage isn't governed by an ebb & flow. This is alien to me. Can you explain this a bit more? Because they love their spouse and understand that all humans are wired for affairs. I am joined spiritually in marriage with my husband. What he does affects me and our marriage, and vice versa. We are a system of checks and balances for each other. It makes our marriage strong. Why would we NOT want to be conscious of each other's actions?
Then you need to step the first step toward that commitment: you need to get married.As much as you will debate otherwise, living together and being married are totally different things.

In the meantime, have you checked out the book I recommended to you?

maritalbliss,

I am sorry. I felt attacked. My emotions are not in alignment right now.

The wedding planning was a major thing that was going on. We were already living together. We just wanted a good, real wedding. Then we became unable to pay for it. We had to postpone.

I am tying the financial situation to what was happening to my fiance. Financial support is an emotional need. I need to me more of a provider. She does not want & financially cannot be the sole support of me, my children, & our house. It is too much.

By ebb & flow, I mean ups & downs. All relationships are never perfect. EN cannot be always met 100%.

My fiance still talks about getting married, post discovery. She made a mistake. She & I just had a conversation where she told me that she has to learn to deal with the emotions that come from choosing this life as a stepmom & working through our recent issues.

I will fight to maintain the relationship with this woman that I love.

I did look into the book. From the description, we are both buyers. The financial EN must be met. It also ties in with recreational companionship & security EN's.

Living together doesn't equal buyers. It equals playing house/marriage.

BTW, I am not religious but marriage is still the most precious thing to me. Dedication to marriage is a totally different ballpark than religion.

We understand that you adore this woman and have been completely dedicated to her.

Please do not think it is the same as saving a marriage though. You can try to save the romantic relationship but know that she IS a free agent.....legally.

You can try to re-woo her though!

I do want to marry this woman & I know that deep down she wants to marry me too. She got scared & what happened happened. Again, I am not trying to make excuses for her. She & I both have gone through some bad things in our past & perhaps she didn't fully resolve them. We talk about that as well.

I am trying to re-woo her. I also have to make sure not to push or smother her right now. That is why I am here.

I like to think that I know what I am doing however I seek advice from people who healed from this & saved a marriage or as in my case, married their significant other after discovery & healing.

I also have to remember my responsibilities. I was not there for her during the 2nd shift job that I had over winter. We were not going to bed together & I was gone before she came home. I was sleeping in on the weekends to maintain my schedule. I am desperately seeking a stable 1st shift job. We live in an economically depressed area.

I also have to show her in more ways how much she is appreciated. She does little things for me like plug in my phone if I forget to do so. A flower now & then...

You contradict yourself here. A buyer is willing to take the rough with the smooth and take up the burden occasionally.


You say the financial need 'must be met' but if you were with a buyer she would be happy simply with your WILLINGNESS to meet the need and efforts to make it so.

Throughout a marriage there are times when even top needs can't be met: babies, grief, hardship but buyers are able to ride out the storm.

Are you SURE she is a buyer? Living together before marriage frequently attracts renters who don't want to endure even short term problems and therefore want to test drive the relationship first.