Thanks so much Zhamila for your care and concern.

I feel badly that I have represented my husband here in such a poor light. I truly believe that a lot of my pain came from DJs. I spent unnecessary energy trying to figure out what my husband, kids...well everybody...were thinking. How exhausting! It also brought me unnecessary pain because I do (now) believe that the people in my life can be trusted to tell me what they really want and what they really feel.

I trust other people to be accountable for themselves, and I will only be accountable for me (within reason e.i. Parenting).

I caused myself pain (and those around me) bc of my DJs, and for that I am truly sorry.

I couldn't figure out why I hurt all the stinking time!

My husband is a loving man, and a wonderful father. He does things that bother me sometimes, yes. But it doesn't hurt like it used to bc I take it at face value. No more, no less...just the facts.

Example of my DHs loving ways- he sent me his text today just because : "thank you for loving me the way you do."

I'll take it.

Thank you so much Prisca! I know you are super busy, so I appreciate it!

I wish I could make yours a notable post just for myself so I could read it over and over til I get it. I think I'm getting there, though.


Gotcha...those sneaky DJs. I usually don't write them down bc we've actually done fairly well at just quickly pointing them out and moving on. When I did write these down it looked something like this :

AO at kids in car this AM
AO at kids on dd's soccer team "kick the freaking ball!"
SD telling me not to drive all over town this PM

The problem came in when he asked for clarification, he got upset, and then I DJed.

About the travel...I did get clarification. DH said he didn't go to one of "those" places and told his co-worker he wouldn't. The waitresses were wearing regular shorts and tanks like you would see in the park or something. That's why he thought it was weird bc it was so cold outside. He also said he felt comfortable going out to the bar "just for the experience" bc they had both discussed marriage and their boundaries, so DH felt comfortable.

Even so, we still need to address the issue.

Thanks so much Prisca!

And that's the key, Anointed!

Each and every Love Buster, in short, can be described as abusive. There is no excuse to continue them, at all. Our spouse's Love Busters are no excuses or justifications for our own.


Yet, you have to think of the Three States of Mind in Marriage, and in particular Conflict.

In conflict, your Taker is at the wheel. For those who aren't third degree black belt MBrs, it can be a tumultous state. Your taker will LB to get your needs met. Be aware.

You can watch this in your own spouse, as things like DJs and AOs increase in occurence as you either draw him into conflict from withdrawal, or as he sinks from intamacy into conflict.

Be aware of those feelings in yourself, and don't allow yourself to resort to Love Busters. If you have a Disrespectful thought... don't let it take hold!


If your husband won't get on the bus? Well, it's his decision. And you have the right to not remain in a marriage with a spouse who is abusive or neglectful and will not change;


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_quit.html



The truth is, you are better to model the program and adapt it to your own behavior, no matter the outcome of your marriage. This program isn't designed to "fix" one spouse, or to assign blame to one spouse for the state of the marriage - and those who try to use it so are garunteeing themselves failure in it's application.

Anointed, I have read all your posts. I agree that cleaning your side of the street is good. HOWEVER:

I wonder: are you avoiding telling your H your real feelings, because you are afraid he will do what he wants anyway? If you told him how much it bothers you that he goes to bars/out of town/etc and he did it anyway, you'd have "proof" of how little he cares for your feelings?

Since you haven't made it abundantly clear, you can keep telling yourself that he just "didn't hear it" or "doesn't really understand." So when he's insensitive and thoughtless - you can pretend that he was just misinformed.

I liken it to you washing the same dish over and over, because your whole house has been hit by a tornado, and you are stalling for time before you have to face the whole sorry mess.

This will not solve anything.

Being honest is NOT a LB. Clearly expressing your feelings without DJs or AOs or SDs is the only way to start the ball rolling.

Anointed, if I am totally off base here, please tell me and I will apologize. I just keep reading about all the things he's doing, and about how hurt and sad you are...but are you telling him?

Just doesn't sound "fully recovered" from his "few affairs" - I sense Fear in these posts.

He needs to understand that it's your comfort that is important in that situation, and not his.

Now, examine your exchange there; ge got angry (AO), and you DJ'd.

Ever seen Mel's story about lettuce? In her correspondence with Dr. Harley, it was stated simple; her IB with the lettuce may have triggered his AO - BUT IT WAS NO EXCUSE FOR HIM TO AO.

By no means does refusing to Love Bust imply silence. By no means. What it does mean, is to make your complaints respectfully.

If you do not make your complaints respectfully, don't expect them to be recieved. Radical Honesty does not imply that employing Love Busters to make complaints is acceptable as a way to make complaints. In fact, in each and every definition of each and every Love Buster they are described as foolish and abusive tactics to get what we want from our spouses... and they fail.


And, don't fall into any trap about "constructive criticism." That's a psychobabble statement. There is no "constructive" criticism, just criticism. Attaching the word "constructive" is just an excuse to unleash a Disrespectful Judgment.

As you have gleamed from my posts, focus on behaviors when you complain. If your complaint is that he over-explains his "why's", tell him that. "I feel uneasy when you tell me I shouldn't worry about something because it wasn't like I imagine. I would like it if you would avoid going out without me altogether. That would make me feel safe."

Wow, thanks for the support Zhamila and HHH!

Yes, I m hesitant quite a bit. I am learning to walk in strength, and I admit that I still worry if I can respectfully complain...I wonder if I really can her his complaints without LBs.

I do worry. But then I go back to not worrying. I know I can do it.

There are still some items up for discussion, but they will be discussed.

I'm trying to find the middle ground instead of extremes (LBs or silence)

I'm so glad it's ok to revisit issues later. I just need to work on scheduling a time to do so instead of letting it hang until I find a "good time.

I will think on what you have both said.

Oh, and Zhamila, I do think my DH hears me and does care. He did not agree to go on that business trip until I agreed.


You are right. Very intuitive. But we are getting there.

Yes, I will do that...anything other than the behavior is a DJ.

Thanks, CWMI.

CWMI - You are so right! Focusing on how you feel about the spouse's behavior is THE way to be honest without LB'ing. That always helps me too. This way, Anointed doesn't have to worry about "why" he does or says something. She can just focus on "what" he's doing that upsets her and ask for behavior changes. Anointed, here's an example from my real life. See if it's helpful at all:

You say: "I feel unsafe when you go out without me. I don't like it."

If he says, "You don't have anything to worry about - I won't do anything wrong," (which is a DJ, by the way, telling you how you "should" feel) just keep repeating:

"I do not like it. I'd like to find an alternative we can both be enthusiastic about."

If he says, "You don't trust me! You are implying that I'll misbehave! You are so disrespectful!" (again, a DJ, telling you what you are thinking - which he can't possibly know! and the beginning of an AO) just keep saying,

"I am not assuming your motives nor your character. I don't know what is going on inside of you. I am simply telling you that your behavior is upsetting me and I'd like to find alternatives that will make us both happy."

Believe me, Anointed, I've had this exact same conversation with my H - over and over. He sometimes gets upset and disrespectful simply because he's being thoughtless and he knows it, but he still wants something VERY badly, even if it's at my expense. He is struggling right now: the alternatives in your (and my) marriage are:

1. He gives up some behaviors that upset you but pave the way for a great marriage ("a sacrifice" in his mind...he may be very focused on what he will "lose" rather than what he'll "gain" - a great marriage) OR

2. He does what he wants anyway, knowing it hurts you and will result in lost love, risking divorce.

He may still believe that he can have both: YOU and Whatever He Wants. He may keep trying to ride the line.

BUT, he must make a choice. He cannot have a happy wife and a great marriage if he keeps behaving inconsiderately, doing things that hurt you. You will actually be helping him tremendously by honestly telling him how you feel about his behavior and asking for changes. This allows him to clearly see the choice in front of him.

And....He is free to make that choice.

Allow him to stand on his own, fully understanding the consequences of his behavior. This will be good for both of you. If he chooses Care, you both win. If he chooses Thoughtlessness, you will clearly know where he stands, and can act accordingly.

Heaven knows I am struggling through these issues myself. You go, Anointed! Be honest! Focus on Behavior! Woohoo!

Thanks Zhamila. I will focus on honesty.

I have not represented my husband well on this forum. It has been one sided and whiny. If I had known then what I know now....but we learn and grow and move forward. I wish MrAnointed would have chosen to post his side of things. I do believe I would have gotten a lot more out of it.

But since I criticized him and hurt him via this board, I don't know if he will even read another post of mine.

Yes, there have been times he has disregarded my wishes, but 99% of the time he is very concerned for me. And there have been times I have demanded and DJed and had AOs, but mostly I am concerned for his well being.

There is so much hope for this marriage.


Ok I'll admit I can struggle a bit with this, but I'm a million times better.


That made me smile. Thanks Zhamila.

P.S. the going out issue has not come up before or since.

He knows what things are good for a marriage...it's the travel that threw a wrench in it. Thank God his job does not require travel at this time.

The previous business trip was a request from his boss and something he got my approval about before going.

Then do not agree to future business trips that do not include you going. Tell him you are not enthusiastic about it, and don't agree to it. You are doing nobody any favors by agreeing to things that make you uncomfortable or unsafe.

((((Anointed))))

You say you've been one-sided - that's ok! Your point of view is valuable, and you are the only one who can represent it.

What would we do without your voice?

I talked with DH about travel last night.

There are no business trips coming up (just a possible one with his parents in a couple of months)

I tried to discuss it,and we still got nowhere. My DH seems uncomfortable with bringing me bc he had to stay with his coworker the whole time to have everything paid for. How would I get around? How would I eat?

I told him I was content to wait a the hotel for his leftovers or I could rent a car. He then mention the airfare for this trip was $900. Ouch.

So $$ is an issue with me going, and he feels awkward about me going since no on else brings their spouse.

That is where we are on that issue.

Zhamila, you are great at validating me. Thank you.

We talked last night about several things: travel, how distant we've become, and what to do about it.

I mentioned some DJs DH made over the weekend and also pointed out when he made them during the conversation. He makes the same mistake of saying "I feel like you don't care" instead of focusing on the behavior. When I point it out, it is done very respectfully and in a calm manner.

I also asked if he wanted me to point the DJs out to him, and he said he didn't mind. Wow! He really is open to learning.

I am still feeling sad, however. I told him that I knew he didn't want to hurt me but I'm feeling hurt. He said that was true, and he was sorry that I hurt. I feel lonely bc our UA is almost nonexistent. I withdrew the week before he left on the business trip, and we never recovered. I worked out with him last night and our chat wasn't all warm and fuzzy but it's a start. Most of it I think revolves around scheduling our time well. He said he wants more of my attention when he gets home, and I'm wanting some time to myself and some UA chat time with him. He doesn't want to hurt our 2 yr old's feelings by telling her Mommy and Daddy want to talk now and then send her away with big brother. I think she will grow accustomed to it and ultimately feel more secure knowing her parents love each other. I wish we could settle this stuff but I'll keep moving forward.

I have offered SF several times but DH is tired. I told him it puts me in a bad spot bc that need is not being met for him, and he understood.

I cried in bed last night.

It all comes down to what I believe about travel. Is it a MUST in order to be promoted and get ahead? I don't know. If it is, do I believe that we can come up with something we are both happy with? Yes. My DH does not want to make me unhappy, and I do not want to make my husband unhappy.

We need to do the work. I hope some talking happens today...I'm ready to feel like we are working together again.

Oh, Anointed. This is breaking my heart!

He says he is "sorry you are hurt." Then what will you two change to stop the hurt?

Who cares what other people think? Who matters more: your feelings, or what co-workers think if you go with him? Please Anointed, put your marriage on the front burner. You need to stay true to your feelings, to the importance of your marriage. If you don't, who will?

What's cheaper: $900? Or $000's in divorce fees, splitting up a home, therapy for your lovely children?



I respectfully beg to differ with you on this. It all comes down to whether you are enthusiastic about his travelling. If you are not 100% jumping up and down, excited for him to leave town without you...then he doesn't travel until you find a solution where you're both 100% jumping up and down.

It all comes down to what you believe about what creates or destroys romantic love. If you truly believe that you can "make yourself" continue to love him, regardless if he continues behaviors that hurt you, then your marriage will not work. You'll get worn out, exhausted trying to maintain a feeling.

Your feelings are a response to his treatment of you: intentional or not (Thanks for that today, Steve! wink). That's why the POJA is so critically important: it protects you from his inconsiderate actions, and ensures you will "feel love" for him.

Whether the actions are deliberate or not doesn't ultimately matter - they still hurt! If I step on your toe 3x a day everyday and say "sorry" and truly mean it, your toe will still HURT...and you might even become suspicious of my "sorrys" after a while - I'd better learn to watch out for loose toes, take off my heavy boots, or just stay seated when you're around - i.e. change my behavior to avoid hurting you again. That is: if i care about your feelings.

The most empowering thing I've learned from MB is that I am not responsible for the love I feel for my H. That's his job.

Now, I can choose to "care" for him, "do nice things" so to speak. But my feelings of romantic love are his responsiblity. If he protects me and cares for me, I will love him. If he doesn't, my love will die.

My current struggle is when my H says, "I care" or "I'm sorry" but his actions do not line up with those words. That's when the territory gets confusing. You want to believe, you want to trust that your spouse has your best interest in mind. But when their actions clearly show you - over and over - that they are ultimately concerned with something besides your interests: that's when you've gotta roll up your sleeves and try something else.

I highly recommend calling Steve. If anyone can get your H on board, it's him. Plus, he'll help you understand it all too...he'll solidify everything for you both.

My only other thought on this is: please don't wait until you hate your H! It will be a lot easier if you've still got some love for him left!

I can personally testify that I waited too long in my 1st marriage - I didn't know all this stuff until we hated each other. I didn't think I 'deserved' a happy marriage. I didn't know that my feelings matter, that they are the canary in the coal mine - the earliest and best warning signal that death and danger are imminent!

You are crying in bed all night. Your canary is dying.

Please don't wait. Please get outside help, Anointed. You'll both be glad you did!

....just don't take all the 6 am appointments....you know who you are out there!

Anointed, I remember in better days travelling with my ex and the kids. We made some nice memories. It's kind of like he's swimming upstream here with the job, what would make him enthusiastic about doing that, maybe you two can brainstorm. You both have SF as an EN, right, how can you make time for that at a point in the day where you're not tired?