Now, with those out of the way,

I know how hard Plan B is. I know how hard it is to not know. I also know how hard it is to know anything. Any contact causes you to crave more contact. Just don't do it.

Your WH is just a typical wayward. Don't get caught up in it.

As far as your IM, she shouldn't answer him about things like this except to say things like, "Only pertinent information about finances will be sent to Letty."

Funny how your WH, who knows about MB, and hence PB, is still reacting so typically, no?

Of course he doesn't like MB, as you said, it makes him be accountable. Stick with your plan. You're doing great. Now get DARK.

Ah, thank you sweetie.



I'm glad their wives are involved - Just be aware of potential vultures when dealing with his male friends. Or yours come to that. There's something about a betrayed woman that makes the dinner bell sound for some men.

It's very common. I had a lovely married couple pledge me their support, only for the man to then friend me on FB and start making odd comments. He wasnt the only one either. High boundaries are needed!



This is because you werent prepared for him to break Plan B - but they ALL do. Be prepared for him to become totally dedicated to breaking your plan - including contacting friends and getting people to pass you messages etc - tell everyone they are banned from even telling you if he contacts them.


Your IM shouldnt have told you anything his contact, because there was no pertinent message to pass on. She should have said to him - 'I have been asked to only pass messages with pertinent info about your meeting her conditions or if you have relevant practical messages regarding finances. I see nothing here to pass on to her and I will not be sending her a message'. Then she should not tell you anything. You should not know if she is being hassled about nonsense or if she is hearing crickets - you should be in the dark unless there is relevant info.

Oh and also - STOP ASKING. The next time she can fine you one cocktail and she won't tell you even if you do ask (I hope) Has she checked out the IM training thread?

I hope the friend understands after speaking with you that he needs to stand up to WH in terms of not supporting his crap behavior and rantings about how unfair it is to expect honesty in a marriage.

Glad you aren't falling for that "lets go to counseling here" business either.

Stay tough, Letty!

This will help your IM.
IM Training school by Melodylane

Thank you all. It took a few hours, but I learned why - it makes a LB w/drawal which you can't afford the s. I get it now.

Read hpb's EP thread last night and had a good cry.

Scottie, I must have felt you all the way down here as ive woken w/a Hugh headache!

Indie - ewwwww!

Indie & sunny - she is fantastic - I was the moron. She's very much just the facts. I'm sure that things will go better - I've learned my lesson, and dayum, it smarts.

Thank you, bh, for the thread. My I'm is very interested in MB, and will be happy to read anything you guys think she should.

Thank you all for posting. It is such a great support when all you want to do is curl up and die. But I'm determined to start ME today, with everything I do today to be about making me better.

Do you have anymore sessions planned with Steve Harley?

Yes, i have our last appt booked for Tuesday.

Good. Keep us posted.

Q: my IM's 3 questions were above, but should I change or add "what plan then, do yOU offer for recovery?"

No you set the conditions. He has those in your PB letter correct?
Also ask Steve H.
This is from the IM training school that I posted to you.
[quote=Melodylane]
Regarding attempts at contact for discussing reconciliation and poor recoveries I have seen on MB--Steve said the biggest mistake people make is taking the WS back with no clear-cut plan for R. Steve also mentioned the following:

1. WS does not have to end the A before we can talk about R (Steve said he will help guide us and negotiate the end of the A and make a plan for R). So a NC letter FIRST is not a requirement.

2. I spell out what WS needs to do...gethelp fortheaddiction

3. He said I should wait for WS to show me what he is offering without me giving any indication of where I stand.

-WS does all the talking

-See what his plan is for R

-How does he know he is ready?

-He has to be showing actions that are consistent with R

-Show me he has/plansto removeOW from hislife

-He said tell WS we need help/guidance, and let Steve then talk with him (no recovery demands as he will feel he is being controlled or I am being demanding). Steve said I could say something like,"We are really close to the edge here, and I do not want to make any mistakes. I would like to get someone to help us through this. All I know is I want us to be in love again. I am not asking you for a commitment, I am just asking you to speak with him so you find out his professional opinion of what R would involve for us."

4. During this time, I remain guarded and can say that it is not that I do not care, but that I just want to ease into R.[/quout want to return to the status quo where they were getting needs met in both places. A good IM will be able to screen out the false alarms. A false alarm is usually indictated by bullcrapattemptslike"how can I know if my feelings will come back if she won't let me contact her??" An IM should protect the BS from this kind of stuff.]

You don't negotiate about recovery in Plan B, that's Plan A. In Plan B you just get on with your life.

I think youre confused about the role your IM is supposed to be playing. She should aim to pass as few messages to you as possible. A few to arrange finances or practical arrangements and then she should be done and no more messages.

If he then contacts her to offer to meet all conditions, well great but if not you and she should just leave him alone with his choices.

For example:



You should never have gotten that message. Right now you should be completely clueless as to whether he's using the intermediary. The BS remains in the dark about that until he says something pertinent.

What he doesn't want to do isn't pertinent
What he wants to do is not pertinent
His opinions are not pertinent.

When you've read the training thread, you'll understand why, but when your intermediary gets a message like that she should just say; 'I can only pass messages regarding financial/practical arrangements or pass the message that you are ready to meet the conditions of her letter. I don't see any pertinent information of that kind, so I will not pass any message from your email to Letty.

Then she should tell you nothing at all. Not even that he has been in touch.

i hear you both, loud and clear. my 3 conditions stand (yes, in letter), and i don't hear anything to the contrary. i know i shouldn't have begged her yesterday to tell me anything. she really dragged her feet, wanting to be a good IM, especially after we spent the afternoon making a script for her. i am the weak one, but i do see now why it is imperative that i hear nothing unless it's "yes, he will meet your conditions, his action plan is..." until then, *absolute* silence.

mantra used to be "look good, smell good, cook good." has now changed to "look good, smell good, FEEL good!" that's today :O)

don't worry, i am dark, just airing feelings, thoughts, and obviously definitely need your guidance for this long road ahead which is going to require more strength than i've ever needed before. i did read ML's link, as well as HPBs EP thread. that one made me cry.

society is so conditioned to the drama, and life here is still quite patriarchal - it's no wonder to me now why we have such a terrible domestic/child abuse situation here (shamefully high). there is nowhere for wives/partners to go or do to separate themselves from their tormentors without doing what i did, and many of those people would simply break down the door. i was thinking this morning of a woman i worked with several years ago whose husband informed her of his affair(s) by allowing her doctor to tell her she had an STI. how did she ever get him out of the house? i cannot believe our option is singular and basically, "do nothing." one of the reasons we moved here is i thought it was more progressive.

we have been separated now for 5 days. and guess what? the world didn't stop turning, i didn't curl up and die, and i haven't even cried very much. i'm feeling (good?) without all the drama of having to deal with him and his lies!

I'm glad you're having a good day, but it might be a bit early for Plan B high fives. Its not unusual for BSs to feel an immediate relief but you are going to go up and down a lot. Don't expect a lot from yourself or take too much on during these early days.

i won't. i have lupus, and that alone makes me have to be very careful with my days, manage stress, and take care of myself, especially when the holidays are over and i go back to work, which is a great big pile of stress on its own. i'm just trying to do things for me for a change. with winter coming on, the long cold nights are going to be a (you know). i have two cats, though, who are happy to snuggle under the covers, and i'm so enjoying being able to read as much as i like again. wh hated my reading. i wasn't giving him enough attention. forget that he never spoke to me and kept his eyes glued to the tv all night. he was much happier when i sat there like a zombie with him, but it depressed the heck out of me.

ok, i must tackle a few items on my to-do list so i feel productive!

Well, I'm on a major down now. DD and her bf are here for the weekend, but that's just making me sad. They are cooking dinner now, and I'm going to try and rouse myself from this stupor.

I totally get that's its going to take much more time before getting his head around right, IF he does. I'm just so sad that what I thought we were building back together was worth more than this. That I was worth more.

I am very saddened that he may simply say eff it all. Or that when (if) he finally pulls his head out, I won't love him any more. I know plan b is supposed to help you maintain a lb balance, ... but this understanding that he may never be able to rebuild our marriage makes me want to sob. Clearly I am more of a morning person!

Hugs to you Letty

I've been following along on your thread and just want to post that I understand how you feel on the rollercoaster. You are in early days of Plan B, and it is normal, no human, to be feeling sad and having ups and downs. If you didn't feel anything it would likely show that your LB$ had depleted too much to ever want to attempt recovery with WH.

My grief and withdrawal in Plan B took longer than some others here, everyone's sitch is different. But know that no matter how long the coaster ride, the downs get less severe and frequent, and the ups get better and longer. You WILL come out the other side.

In the here and now, there is nothing wrong with a sob either. It is part of the grief process. In the early days of Plan B, I remember trying to cook myself dinner, with heaving sobs coming out of me as I tried to take the tray out of the oven. How I never burnt myself I don't know, and I can actually laugh at imagining the mad woman I looked when my poor brother showed up one night and had to finish cooking my dinner for me! Shows how Plan B heals... and it does.

So, what movies have you been watching?

Its horrible, isn't it. And after the last 5 years, I don't know if I can do it again. All over lies about stupid crap! Argh. OK, dont laugh. I haven't been watching any, I've been bejewelling myself to death! My DD just caught me and is giving me grief over it, but it does numb the pain. Tonight I got jabbed by a packet of cookies in the pantry. His. I much prefer being angry to this void.

How is your plan b going? That must be really suck over an ocean. Its bad enough when they're right here.

Thanks for popping in tonight. This board is what's keeping me going, because no one else gets it, though my IM thinks MB is great. Everyone else just wants me to leave. As if that would be any different! I'm curious, what legal support do you get there? Do you just have to hang around in limbo for two years too?

You're doing very well. Had your first 'up then down' already. That's quite impressive. I was a ball of red angry pain for three weeks straight before I started having ups and downs.


Yup its very sad. Tragic that someone could be so stupid as to look at something that half the world is looking for - love and commitment and total fidelity, but then they just chuck it out for the sake of doing what they want, when they want.

And you ARE worth more. That's why you're in Plan B. and you will GET more. Whether in a personal or a marital recovery. I have no worries about you. I think you're clearly strong. I am a year into my Plan B, and I predict you will be as happy as I am after a bit more time, healing and peace.

As for movies, I like dramatic and classic and romantic usually, Gregory Peck and Audrey Hepburn or Bette Davis.

But early in Plan B, you need FUNNY. My most useful early Plan B movies were the Legally Blonde ones and also Mike Myers in So I Married an Axe Murderer.

Letty, you're underestimating yourself. You ARE doing it. I think if you keep this up, you'll be an star Plan B'er others will follow for inspiration.

I entered Plan B very shortly after D Day, but had already started the infidelity diet because of the gaslighting. I was dropping the weight quickly, and had previously always been someone who in times of crisis puts weight on. My Plan B diet consisted of A LOT of sweeties, I just kept shovelling them in but the weight kept dropping. Friends started to worry about my weight and were encouraging me to just keep chewing when they'd take me out for lunch. Having just had Easter, boy I wish that was still happening lol!

As for Plan B'ing across an ocean, I like it. Plan A'ing across an ocean was the harder part. I admire those of you who manage to Plan B in the same country let alone town. Plan B in seperate continents is much easier. I occasionally worry Gollum might show up unexpectedly in my small town (like at Christmas) but overall I am safe in knowing he is not here. He can't turn up on my doorstep, drop in to my work, etc. I occasionally worry about his returning to Aus with Horse Ho and my unexpectedly running into them (I live in a small town). But since D Day took place in seperate continents, I actually think he should be more scared than I about that!!!

Legal support... nothing. I went to some free legal advice and got nothing out of it. Was actually told to leave well enough alone. That was in early days of Plan B, and I haven't bothered with any follow-up. I have decided in the next week I am going to look into other legal advice as this initial advice seems poor. Neither party can file for divorce until a 12-month seperation. For me that date is 18.05.12. Soon. Recently I stopped thinking of this date as a timebomb. I am starting to think of it as the finish line. I feel sad about that, but proud too.

Letty, whereabouts in the world are you? I missed it if you said...