When you say your husband has "legal rights," are those enforced by court order and an armed sheriff? How is he able to enforce his "legal rights?"

Noted 1 week Plan A. I have made an effort to look after myself - daily exercise, eating healthily, revisiting old interests and new ones. I've let the children know that it has been painful but have tried to show them that I am dealing with this in a positive way and that I have maintained my self respect and dignity. I have told them the truth about their father but have not been disrespectful or done anything to damage their relationship.

Amazingly I feel stronger. I am more confident now that I can do a successful Plan A than I would have been with the initial shock and when emotions were raw. I also think it has helped that I have stopped trying to connect with the person he used to be (mourned the loss of the man I knew) and have accepted the man he is now.

Aaagh waywards - can't see a BW as someone who still loves and cares for WH and is fighting for their marriage. I had read you can't compete with OW you can only present the best most loving version of yourself, someone they would feel comfortable with and when the A begins to fail the BS is hopefully seen as the better option and the wayward returns.

We don't have a formal court order (he can apply to the court for one), just an informal agreement between us. He is legally entitled to visitation even without the formal order. Should it go before the courts denying visitation works against you in any custody battle. The children's interests come first even though morality of affairs isn't taken into account. Its all about equity in NZ! One saving grace is no divorce can be granted until the spouses have been separated for 2 yrs.

In most countries, though, abandonment of the children is frowned upon. Is it in your children's best interest to be dragged from their home for several nights a week to accommodate their fathers affair?

Happy, it sounds to me like you have been extremely accommodating to him at the expense of your children. Have you tried to protect your kids?

And that is what Plan A is, a competition of sorts. Which does not play well for betrayed wives. And is why Harley recommends the shortest Plan A possible.

He does not have a court order in place, he can apply at any time. Visits must be mutually agreed (date, time etc)to if there is an informal agreement, but access can't be denied. If he applies for a formal order I can't stop access to OW unless I can prove she in unfit. Parenting Orders (custody) as opposed to Separation Agreements (relationship property)do not provide for a no contact option with OW unless it can be proved she is unfit and there is a risk to the children.

I only have the option of denying OW sole access to 6yr DS if WH is not present, whilst we have an informal agreement. Once it is formalised I have no legal grounds to prevent her spending solo time with DS if WH is not present.

I have have been battling to protect the children particulary 6yr old from his wayward behaviour, the OW and the damage of an affair, including negative lessons. I have sought legal advice, spoken with children's counsellor at Skylight, attending Parenting Through Separation course run by Family Court and Skylight and parents at course who'd been though court system to implement parenting order. The message from everyone was that it is in the children's best interests for the parents to come to a mutual agreement rather than going through the courts. I actually have more of a say with an informal agreement than a court determined one. If either of us seek a formal court order I loose the right to prevent OW spending time alone with my DS. That concerns me.

Happy, I am in nz too, and am appalled by the entrenched patriarchal system that supports the male through default.

I would not agree to visits in a house where skank is, and forget the law that gives you no power. He can go to court and you can enter your objection on record re adultery, even though it means nothing in the case of divorce. Of course, I can talk, as my DD is 18!

Your IM doesnt even need to be physically in nz - you can use email/text for them.

My family is shocked and saddened at how little legal control I have; I changed the locks anyhow. He can carry on his behaviour elsewhere!

I have been reading your thread from up north of you, and am thinking about you. I'm sorry I could not post last night.

Q - I was told by a lawyer that I could file myself, no lawyer necessary. I will be discussing this w/my own lawyer next week when he is finally back from his holiday. You'll see in my threax that I had to twist the court's arm to file a separation. Agreement!

I knew you'd come round to MLs advice. She's a very wise lady. Do you short plan a while preparing for plan b, and for goodness sa,e, do NOT sell your property in this current market!

Sorry for typos. I have fat fingers and cant get the cursor back without having to erase entire sentences!

The problem with coming to a mutual agreement is that your sources do not understand the mentality of a wayward. Do they?

Would they advocate negotating with a terrorist? Because it is the same thing. Your husband does not have your children's best interest at heart, so it makes no sense to negotiate with someone whose only interest is purely selfish. It is NOT in your children's best interest to be exposed to adultery and dragged from their home to accommodate their parents despicable behavior.

The notion that it is in their best interest to negotiate with a terrorist comes from uncaring bureacrats who do not care about your childrne. All of the people who told you to be "amicable" and hand your children over to a selfish, uncaring adulterer don't care about your children one bit. They don't give one rip about your kids. Most of them have never even met them. Or they would not dare say that it is in their best interest to negotiate with a parent who has abandoned them.

This is why it is so important to ignore what is advocated by uncaring court bureaucrats and do what you know is right for the children. Rather than just capitulate, how about getting a kick [censored] attorney who will fight on your children's behalf and protect them? You said you could come to a "mutual agreement," why not get an attorney who will squeeze him by the nuts and get you primary custody and prevent him from taking your kids around his sleazebag?

happy, one other important point about putting up a fight. Your kids need to see you fight against this corruption in their lives. Handing them over willingly without a fight signals endorsement of their father's corrupt lifestyle. Even if you fought and lost, it would be better than not fighting at all. At least your kids would know how to fight against right and wrong and would know they mean enough to you to fight for.

The kids that fare the best are the ones whose parents fight like hell to keep them away from the affair because those kids understand CLEARLY that the WS is corrupt. Those kids are much harder to corrupt and train up to be little liars and cheaters themselves.

Infidelity and abandonment is frowned upon here from a ethical/moral point of view but it does not come into play in Family Law with regard to custody or separation/divorce. I cannot have included in any agreement no contact with OW unless I can prove she is unfit or a risk to their safety.

No it isn't in their best interests to:
i) spend alternating weekends with each parent
ii)have to spend fortnightly weekends away from home
iii)have a court determine what is best for them.

Overnight visits is a very recent thing, prior to that he visited one day each weekend intitally then took 6yr DS on outings. I was accomodating (flexible)with regard to weekly access to his father so they could maintain their relationship. At this stage Ow was not present and it was in DS best interest's as he was struggling with his father's absence. I battled with WH to prevent 6yr DS being exposed to OW. Eventually he was introduced without my consent.

I have never accomodated him at the expense of the children. I have sought advice from lawyers, from counsellors, child separation experts, spoken with their school teachers. I attended a two week Parenting Through Separation Course run by the Family Court and sought advice during the course.

I have tried to protect them resulting in accusations of shielding the children, allowing them to live in fantasy that he will return, bubble wrapping children, wrapping them in cotton wool, not treating them age appropriately. I will continue to stand for the children regardless of his accusations. I have taken them to Skylight a specialist organisation that helps children and families deal with grief, loss and change as a result of separation, divorce and death.

Bottom line I can make him apply for a court order which he can obtain instantly to formalise our current informal arrangement, or he can legally apply for greater access than he currently has. With the informal agreement I still have right of refusal to prevent OW having solo access without WH, once the agreement is formal I no longer have this right.

happy, no one here thinks you are doing anything at the expense of the children. please don't feel that way. you have done everything in your limited power you can do, and have accessed services that many don't even know are available here. good for you! you're doing exactly the right things to help your kids with this seemingly huge, insurmountable problem. just do what you can to instill that no moral person believes that a husband can choose to leave his family to live with a skank, no matter what the law says, and that they do not have to be subjected to *OW,* but can see daddy any time they wish. i would do my best to see that he continues with visitation/outings, but avoid them going to his "new home" and overnights until you are divorced (i know that's not the goal). i know how hard it is to get people here to listen - all they say is "if it's not working, you just have to accept it." well no, you don't. i know you will get flack for this ("you just have to accept it" - bullpucky!). lean on us and your family/friends.


no one knows better than me how little you have available to you here, legally. it really sucks; just the fact that she's stolen your husband and is trying to get your money proves unfitness imho, but the law won't care. now plan a your little heart out so you can get into plan b. you have been so accommodating it will knock his socks off. good.

To MelodyLane & Letty,

I will reply to your posts later. 18yr DS had returned from few days with friends and has spent time playing with 6yr DS whilst Ive been on MB.

Time for me to spend time with DS before we head off to Ben10 show .... both really looking forward to that.

And as you have probably discovered, all of these resources advocate capitulation, at the expense of your children. Because they do not care about your kids. They don't give a crap about your kids. Especially the Family Court. We have the same situation here in America. The Family Court is peopled with uncaring bureaucrats who counsel parents to just go along to get along to make their jobs easier.

The key is to put aside the advice of all the uncaring capitulation crapwits and fight for your kids. We have many parents on this forum who obtained primary custody by fighting for it. By telling an attorney: here is what I have to get and if you want to work for me, you need to move your azz and get that! And guess what? They do! It is amazing the things folks get for their kids when they put aside the bad advice of the capitulation crowd and put up a fight. i am just saying it is worth trying, happy. Don't give up just because the capitulation crowd tells you to!

Welcome, happyfuture.

Your mil won't get involved? What, is she a slave to her son and his decadent behavior? I would kick my son's [censored] if he did this to my daughter-in-law and grandchildren. You mil is being negligent in this, to refuse to counsel her son appropriately.

Get your info together on OW. Does she have Facebook? Do you have a list of her family members?

Have you looked into the fact that in some countries grandparents and other family members that have been important in the lives of your children can apply for visitation rights?

Because if it is possible in NZ, you could get the help from the family, who would then officially apply for visitation, and these official visitation days could possibly limit the visitation of your husband (as there are only 7 days in a week, you know?).

Just ask your attorney to think creatively.

God bless you,

Happyheart


P.S. With the history of your OW, she will probably spit him out in a year or two. Just too bad, that your husband is so gullable.

Thanks Letty I am amazed by the law particularly when it is supposed to protect the children's interest there is no provision for adultery or abandonment. Its frustrating - with an informal agreement between us, I can tell WH that I do not want children to visit at his house with OW but he can take them without my consent and the law provides no protection or means of having them returned. If we have a formal order I can't stipulate no contact with OW. Maybe we should have moved to the US I've heard there you can sue OW for alienation of affection and prevent them harvesty your equity. In NZ OW can steal your husband, your children, your lifestyle, your identity and financial security with no recourse.

I'll read your thread, but I would be interested to know how you get on with filing your own Separation Agreement. According to the law no verbal or written agreement will hold in court only a SA where each party has had separate legal counsel and it is signed off by both lawyers. This is the reason I proceeded with a lawyer to ensure our agreement was honoured as I can no longer trust my alien.

I agree with not selling in current market, we received an offer $80k less than agent's minimum price guide and less than RV! WH forwarded his reply to agent "BS and "my bank" will not work with this, I will allow BS to reply separately!. I sent copy of a reply with a polite notation thanking him for allowing me to reply and I agreed "our bank" would not accept an offer less than the market value and RV.

Happy, where are you at with exposure?

Yep it sucks big time that OW can come along and take the lifestyle that you and WH have worked so hard and made sacrifices for. All those years of working to provide financial security for the family's future ... and its gone ... equity harvested by OW. There should be a law to prevent this! And this doesn't count as being unfit ... predatory behaviour, manipulating, stealing etc. Amazing waywards will risk everything to maintain the fantasy.

Forum Newbie - thought I'd figured out how to use quote box for relevant paragraphs rather than whole post... obviously not.

There is a reply above the second "quote box" re infidelity frowned upon.

NZ family law has become very pc I currently have "day to day care" (custody) WH has "contact" (access). This is an informal agreement between us and will be noted in Separation Agreement being finalised as it relates to child support. If we went to court I would have no problem in maintaining "day to day care" through a formal "parenting order" as I have had "care" during separation ...note the law applies "separation" not "abandonment"